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Which? B4 Plus, DD15/18, M&K MX 350 or other?

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by Phil Hinton, Sep 29, 2004.

  1. Phil Hinton

    Phil Hinton
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    Busy saving some cash for a new sub or subs and want to reduce my options list so i know what i am looking to go for.
    I have owned, Velodyne CHT15, Two Rel Storms, Two Servo 15s and a 20-39PC+ of these the Rels and the SVS were poor because they are downward firing, the others were suitable to varying degrees, just not quite the trouser flapping i was looking for. I must explain that my room is square and an odd shape.

    So what do i go for? I have looked at the SVS B4 @ $3849 which includes a Rane Parametric EQ and 1k Amp, The Velo DD18 @ £3,300 which has it's own built in EQ, M&K MX350 @ £2,000 approx but no EQ and a few others in that price bracket. So what price does the SVS actually come in at, in terms of pounds? Ian might help me here.

    So lets have some ideas, the max budget is £3,500 but i want to avoid spending as much as that if i can. If I can go cheaper and still get excellent results i can change my Processor too. (Being Scottish i like to spend very little of the actual budget :) )
     
  2. Ian J

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    The SVS PB4 together with Crown K1 and Rane Equaliser will set you back $3,849 and with an estimated guess at shipping of $250 the all in cost will be about £2,800 but you could save about £240 by not including the Equaliser if you already have a BFD
     
  3. Phil Hinton

    Phil Hinton
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    Has anyone actually bought one of these Ian? In this country? £2,800 is a lot and i wouldn't want to buy blind like i did with the other SVS i owned and regretted.
     
  4. Ed Selley

    Ed Selley
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    Is size a factor? Obviously none of them are exactly small but on the occasion our sales director was shown a B4 in the states, he first assumed it was an office. The DD-18 is almost modest in size by comparison.
     
  5. Phil Hinton

    Phil Hinton
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    Tons, It's a dedicated room so i wont worry regards size. The DD18 is smaller, but also more expensive. Ah Decisions.....
     
  6. Ian J

    Ian J
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    A friend of Bone Daddy bought one last year and Bone reported on it here The only other things that I have read about this particular model have been on American forums
     
  7. Jeff

    Jeff
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    Phil,

    I have a DD12 and a PC Ultra at the moment, I think you should go for PB2 Ultra. The Ultra is a much better driver and in a room like yours you will benefit more from having 2 Ultra than 4 Plus drivers.
     
  8. recruit

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    Hi Phil

    I would say go for the M&K, it is a tremendous sub and just use a BFD to equalise things out, i have managed to get very good results with it and i will not be changeing subs for quite some time. ;)

    BTW: you are more than welcome for a dem if you wanted to compare with any of the others.

    John :)
     
  9. Phil Hinton

    Phil Hinton
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    Is the PB2 a downward firing sub? Are you suggesting having two?
     
  10. Phil Hinton

    Phil Hinton
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    A demo is on the cards, hopefully from a dealer up here, Kent is a little far to travel but thanks for the offer.
     
  11. Ian J

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    He could buy a pair of PB-2 Ultras for the same or cheaper than the B4 or DD-18.

    I was very impressed with the M&K 350 but it was only playing the one Drumline piece in a Bristol hotel room so probably wasn't really representative of what it can do.

    As a matter of interest I wonder if M&K will be at the Manchester show at the end of October
     
  12. Ian J

    Ian J
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    If you haven't read it already, Secrets of Home Theater reviewed the PB2-Ultra recently here and concluded that
     
  13. rags

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    Phil - if you feel that the problem with the SVS you used to own was directly related to it being downward firing, then you would be risking the same fate with the B4, PB2 Ultra etc. However I do realise that it is not a simple as that.

    Excluding SVS, the Velo DD, B&W ASW850 and M&K would be on the top of my shopping list.

    TBH I never quite added it up - im still in shock with the figures above - a B4 Plus with equalizer for less money than a DD18 :eek:
     
  14. rags

    rags
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    Jeff - how do your DD12 and PC Ultra compare ?
     
  15. samhain

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    If I was able to hear the PB2 Ultra, I think I would be surprised at the quality of this unit for the price, and the review Ian mentioned speaks for itself.

    I have ofcourse only heard a DD15, B&W 850 and M&K 350THX and they are all stunning. The DD18 is a mouthwatering prospect if you can afford the cash, which as you say you can. With that in mind you should audition as many as possible and buy what you think is the best (Scottish or not we don't want to throw money away)

    All will surely satisfy, but like you buying blind at over £2k is dodgy to say the least.
     
  16. Jeff

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    Phil, Yes it is a down firing sub but I wouldn't get caught up in that too much, they aren't all the same. 1 should be enough, 2 can help smoothen out the frequency response. I've grown not to like EQ (don't like the sound), and tend to try and avoid. I'm not using any EQ on the PC Ultra or the DD.
     
  17. Jeff

    Jeff
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    They both have different qualities I like but the sound completely different so difficult to compare. The PC Ultra sounds more natural to me and I very much like it for music. The DD works well with movies and the RTA function is very usefull. I'm trying to marry the 2 at the moment with the SVS at the back of the room where it works the best and the SVS at the front. It works quite well but since I don't even use the EQ on the DD I have to question the value of having it there. At the moment I'm switching to Genelec active speakers, I'll revisit the subs when they are up and running and settled in.
     
  18. Phil Hinton

    Phil Hinton
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    The people who own the SVS models I am interested in don't reside anywhere near me so that rules out hearing them in my room. It's a pity as I would like to give SVS another try, maybe Tom V can have his arm twisted to sponsor my DVD reviews and send me some PB2's FOC;)

    So, it looks like I will need to demo the DD range (Nearest dealer is Edinburgh i believe) and also have a listen to the M&K 350. Any other I should put on the short list? B&W? I might even have a look at the Mackie Subs, I use their HR624 actives, or even Genelec?
     
  19. samhain

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    If you want to hear a DD-15 you are more than welcome, especially since we appear to live not far from each other. It may not perform to the dizzy heights of the DD-18 but it would certainly give you another choice of listening.

    Will be set up in new house next week.
     
  20. Ian J

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    According to the recent Stereophile subwoofer shootout the Snell ICS Sub24 should be on your shortlist as it won the "Best Bang for the Buck" category at it's American price of $2,600. The UK distributor is www.seehear.co.uk

    There is another worthy contender in the Kleiss S15A at $2,449 which according to the aforementioned magazine is the sub that the Dolby & Skywalker engineers are buying with their own money but what will put you off is that they are only available directly from the manufacturer at www.kleissound.com and I don't suppose that anyone in the UK has even heard one
     
  21. Smurfin

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    Phil my money would be on the PB-2 Ultra: especially as looks isn't incredibly important in your room (i.e wood finishes etc, would look quite right?) the pre-order offer in black that SVS are doing is not to be sniffed at.

    Also bear in mind that the PB2-Ultra doesn't actually have to be used as a downward firing sub...over on AVS there are some pics somewhere of someone's room where they unscrewed the bass plate and stood the sub on one end. The only downside to this is that you can see the RCA cable and powercable at the top....it might not be to many people's tastes.

    And with the money you've saved (ie a good £1500), you can go out and buy a good processor:)
     
  22. russraff

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    I take it the MX350 is going to be auditioned at Sevenoaks? The reason I say this is that Craig, there, made mention that he had a Revel Sub. I can't remember the name, but I am nearly sure it is the B15 Performa (link to Revel's website here ) Reading the specs it looks like the sort of thing you are after, and it has room eq to take care of weird rooms. You may have a spherical room after a few movies with the Revel sub going full chat, but at least you'll be having fun. HCC did a review of it, too.
    If you aren't put off downward firing subs, and REL in particular, then Global have a Studio III for just under £2k. Wouldn't like to carry either of them up the stairs, though!:eek:

    Russell
     
  23. Matt F

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    My, times have changed - a year or so ago and the MX350 would be well down the list (and that was against the older Velodyne HGS series) - check the thread: http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50038 - interestingly enough, our resident sub-meister 'The Beekeeper' agreed with the list.

    In fact I'm sure it was generally though back then that the £500 Servo 15 would easily compete with (if not better) the MX350 - strange that the M&K has suddenly become popular again, especially at it's lofty price point.

    I can't honestly believe that the aged MX350 is able to compete against the newer kids on the block - the DD series and the B&W ASW850, not to mention some of SVS's mouthwatering (and excellent value) offerings.

    Although I'm subless (and out of home cinema for the time being), if it were my £2K - £3K I'd be looking at the DD15/18, the B&W ASW850 and, if I could get a demo, one of the SVS box subs (rather than the cylinders) and I must say that as the DD's solve one of the big problems of subs i.e. setting them up, I think I'd be drawn in that direction.
     
  24. Phil Hinton

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    I have never said M&K are bad subs, although going by that thread there is an interesting sales pitch that still goes on today. I will make my mind up on the 350 after i demo one. Lots to think about including this http://www.mackie.com/products/hrs120/ which at £1000 each I would try two.....Like I say lots to think about.
     
  25. Smurfin

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    Phil

    Not sure how much you value extension or how generous or stringent Mackie are with their quoted figures (I would guess they are stringent?) but don't you want something that will hit 15hz with ease? The price bracket that you're looking at would surely offer this in spades...
     
  26. Bone Daddy

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    Where you situated THX - my friend with the B-4 is off on tour in the states at the moment,but would be more than willing to give you a demo,cheers Paul
     
  27. avanzato

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    The Genelec subs must be worth a listen and a name I've just rediscovered recently Bag End. The Bag End's used to be hideous industrial things but they now do some home models that look OK. I haven't heard Bag End for a very long time but they're not too expensive at about £1375 for the 18 incher, seem to be sold by Smart Distribution in the UK but Bag End don't list a UK disti on their website.
     
  28. Spligsey

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    Do keep the Mackie & Genelec subs in mind Phil - serious performance approaching or even matching all the best designs from the domestic range.

    The 5.1 HR624/HRS120(x2) is a very nice setup :)

    By all accounts the Genelec subs are pretty hot too.

    Just goes to show, that there is a BIG choice for perspective buyers now.

    Adz

    Edit

    The Mackie subs are downward firers Phil - the driver you can see in most pics is the passive radiator - which aids the bass response.
     
  29. recruit

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    Hi THX,

    After reading MattF thread i would tend to agree that does sound like a typical sales pitch from the great Uncle, and obviously at the end of the day it's all down to what sounds good for each individuals requirments but what does look interesting are Mackie Sub's and they are THX certified, if you do get to hear them could you please give us your views as for the price they do seem good value :cool:

    John :)
     
  30. Ian J

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    The THX certification of subs is an interesting point that comes up fairly frequently yet it is hardly ever mentioned in connection with other equipment in the audio chain.

    It would seem that very few manufacturers bother to spend the money on what seems to be just a marketing exercise as the small list of Ultra 2 approved brands indicates. The Snell ICS Sub24 and Klipsch KA-1000THX are both Ultra 2 approved as are the Velodyne DD-15 and DD-18 models but the Genelec sub that blew all others into the weeds (technical expression) in the recent Stereophile review didn't bother with certification as presumably they assumed that their product didn't need such a marketing boost.
     

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