Which AVR is best for me? Any advice greatly appreciated

Al89

Novice Member
Hi, I have posted previously regarding speakers and have now purchased Dali Opticon 6 Mark 2 with Opticon Vokal mark 2 and Opticon 1 Mark 2 rear speakers. I use a BK FF subwoofer and have a 5.1.2 set up. Currently this is being run by my Yamaha RX-V681. I love this amplifier but I think I could get more for my speakers with a more powerful/newer model? (Correct me if I'm wrong)
I have looked at different options and with my current setup a stereo amp is not going to be an option in addition to my AVR. I do listen to music but to be fair I think the Yamaha does a decent job for an AVR. With music in mind I had looked at the Arcam AVR20 but then read bad reviews. I looked at the Denon 3700/4500 which has great reviews but in my experience Yamaha has always had the upper hand with music over Denon AVRs? ( again correct me if I'm wrong). Am I best waiting for the new Yamaha AVRs to be released, potentially a4a/a6a for something comparable or going for something completely different that I'm missing? Appreciate I may have to demo some when the Yamaha ones are released but would appreciate any opinions on a good AVR especially from a brand I may not even have considered. I should say I talk about music here but the main use of the AVR is TV/movies I just don't want my music to sound worse than it does with my current Yamaha! Thank you and thanks for looking!
 

goingoingong

Distinguished Member
Hi, I have posted previously regarding speakers and have now purchased Dali Opticon 6 Mark 2 with Opticon Vokal mark 2 and Opticon 1 Mark 2 rear speakers. I use a BK FF subwoofer and have a 5.1.2 set up. Currently this is being run by my Yamaha RX-V681. I love this amplifier but I think I could get more for my speakers with a more powerful/newer model? (Correct me if I'm wrong)
I have looked at different options and with my current setup a stereo amp is not going to be an option in addition to my AVR. I do listen to music but to be fair I think the Yamaha does a decent job for an AVR. With music in mind I had looked at the Arcam AVR20 but then read bad reviews. I looked at the Denon 3700/4500 which has great reviews but in my experience Yamaha has always had the upper hand with music over Denon AVRs? ( again correct me if I'm wrong). Am I best waiting for the new Yamaha AVRs to be released, potentially a4a/a6a for something comparable or going for something completely different that I'm missing? Appreciate I may have to demo some when the Yamaha ones are released but would appreciate any opinions on a good AVR especially from a brand I may not even have considered. I should say I talk about music here but the main use of the AVR is TV/movies I just don't want my music to sound worse than it does with my current Yamaha! Thank you and thanks for looking!
Take a look at Marantz too, usually said to be the more musical of the Denon and Marantz AVRs.
Marantz to Denon equivalents
SR6015 = X3700
SR7015 = X4700
SR8015 = X6700
 

Mr Wolf

Active Member
I love this amplifier but I think I could get more for my speakers with a more powerful/newer model? (Correct me if I'm wrong)
Depending on your listening levels, you may be wrong if you're simply approaching this from a power perspective. Your Yamaha AVR outputs 90W per channel. Moving up to say a 140W/channel AVR would give you 1.9dB more SPL headroom which equates to about 14% more perceived loudness i.e. not a lot.

Your LCR speakers have 88dB sensitivity. In a normal sized room I estimate that your Yamaha should be capable of powering them safely up to about -11dB volume level (assuming your AVR's properly calibrated to 0dB being reference - YPAO does that). Unless you're running your current AVR near this level then you're unlikely to appreciate much of a benefit due to having a bit more power available.
 

Zarf2007

Active Member
take another look at the Arcam, they are stable now with the latest firmware, have eARC and can be upgraded to hdmi 2.1 from the end of the year.....for music you will not get better and great for movies too.
 

ShanePJ

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
Unless you are desperate, Yamaha and Onkyo are due to drop some new models sometime soon, so this would open up more options and just Denon or Marantz options a little. I agree with @Zarf2007 that the (justified) complaints about Arcam software seem a lot less than before (which I know isn't saying much) as many Arcam owners accept that owning one always comes with a little bother (trust me, I've owned Arcam for years) to gain that musical ability without having to own many boxes to recreate a similar sound experience
 

Al89

Novice Member
Thanks for all the great replies. So in conclusion likely my Yamaha still does a good job? If I want to replace it I should look at Arcam again?
The heat issue with Denon/Marantz puts me off especially with running 4 ohm speakers 😬
 

Al89

Novice Member
take another look at the Arcam, they are stable now with the latest firmware, have eARC and can be upgraded to hdmi 2.1 from the end of the year.....for music you will not get better and great for movies too.
I'm not into gaming anymore. Getting a bit old now so not sure HDMI 2.1 is currently something I require and there seem to be many issues surrounding it (may regret in the future right enough). I wondered if the AVR20 is good place to start or if I could even look at an older model that would do the job just as well for less?
 

Zarf2007

Active Member
I'm not into gaming anymore. Getting a bit old now so not sure HDMI 2.1 is currently something I require and there seem to be many issues surrounding it (may regret in the future right enough). I wondered if the AVR20 is good place to start or if I could even look at an older model that would do the job just as well for less?

if you are not bothered about 4K/120hz gaming or 8K I would definitely look at one of these Arcam AVR390s:


they originally RRP at £2K and have 4K up to 60Hz, HDR/HLG/Dolby Vision in addition to all Dolby/DTS formats including Atmos and DTS:X. So you are covered for all major visual and sound formats.

They also have one of the best room correction systems (Dirac) thrown in for free.

Review here:


effectively you are getting the internals of the more expensive AVR850 (RRP £5K) just less of the amplification but even that is better than denon/marantz as it can do the true all channels driven figure of 60watts compared to those AVRs that only give ratings for 1 or 2 channels and are notably less when all channels are driven.

There is an active thread on here and latest firmware 7.15 has been released.


 
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Mr Wolf

Active Member
effectively you are getting the internals of the more expensive AVR850 (RRP £5K) just less of the amplification but even that is better than denon/marantz as it can do the true all channels driven figure of 60watts compared to those AVRs that only give ratings for 1 or 2 channels and are notably less when all channels are driven.

To me Arcam play the power ratings game just as much as anyone. That quoted 60W figure is at 1Khz only, it's not on a full 20Hz-20KHz bandwidth average. Specs below from Arcam's website.

Continuous power output, per channel, 8Ω (AVR390)
2 channels driven, 20Hz - 20kHz, <0.02% THD - 80W
2 channels driven, 1kHz, 0.2% THD - 86W
7 channels driven, 1kHz, 0.2% THD - 60W

When de-rated to a 20Hz-20kHz basis that 60W will be around 56W which is exactly 70% of its 80W quoted 2-channel figure. As D&M guarantees its AVRs to have at least 70% of its 2-channel output available when 5-channels are driven I don't really see any appreciable difference here in this area between the two brands.
 

Zarf2007

Active Member
To me Arcam play the power ratings game just as much as anyone. That quoted 60W figure is at 1Khz only, it's not on a full 20Hz-20KHz bandwidth average. Specs below from Arcam's website.

Continuous power output, per channel, 8Ω (AVR390)
2 channels driven, 20Hz - 20kHz, <0.02% THD - 80W
2 channels driven, 1kHz, 0.2% THD - 86W
7 channels driven, 1kHz, 0.2% THD - 60W

When de-rated to a 20Hz-20kHz basis that 60W will be around 56W which is exactly 70% of its 80W quoted 2-channel figure. As D&M guarantees its AVRs to have at least 70% of its 2-channel output available when 5-channels are driven I don't really see any appreciable difference here in this area between the two brands.
yes but D&M are pants for music.
 

ashenfie

Well-known Member
For sure Arcam did them selves no favours release their new AVs with the software in what only could be said an appalling state. The software is now good

The AV is totally different AV to setup and it's all done via a browser rather than the front panel. Dirac live sound EQ system is one of the best on the market and this alone make the Arcam a step ahead of the others. Like all things with great power come complicity and it not for anyone who just wants an AV to plug in and go.

This is a real enthusiasts amp and will shine when set-up correctly. It may well be worth getting the deal to do the first time setup, sound daunting but once you understand what your are doing, it's relatively straightforward.

Most issues centre around the art of what is possible and a achieving the perfect graph. I simple term room composition system can't make a bad room sound perfect and many try and do just that. Dirac live lead you into a world of infinite tweaks that can suck in. Room correction is a compromise and ideally you want to fix the room as best as possible.

If that all sound too much the maybe the Yamaha is a good bet and Denon provide great value for money.

P.s. I have an AV20 and am very happy with it
 

SOUNDVISION

Well-known Member
For sure Arcam did them selves no favours release their new AVs with the software in what only could be said an appalling state. The software is now good

The AV is totally different AV to setup and it's all done via a browser rather than the front panel. Dirac live sound EQ system is one of the best on the market and this alone make the Arcam a step ahead of the others. Like all things with great power come complicity and it not for anyone who just wants an AV to plug in and go.

This is a real enthusiasts amp and will shine when set-up correctly. It may well be worth getting the deal to do the first time setup, sound daunting but once you understand what your are doing, it's relatively straightforward.

Most issues centre around the art of what is possible and a achieving the perfect graph. I simple term room composition system can't make a bad room sound perfect and many try and do just that. Dirac live lead you into a world of infinite tweaks that can suck in. Room correction is a compromise and ideally you want to fix the room as best as possible.

If that all sound too much the maybe the Yamaha is a good bet and Denon provide great value for money.

P.s. I have an AV20 and am very happy with it
What about the Music life app that Arcam use for controlling access to music, is that better as well now ?
 

SOUNDVISION

Well-known Member
A189

If you want a Better Musical Experience, you could get a Stereo Amp with Pre-outs and connect stereo amp to the Yamaha Pre-outs
Then the Stereo Amp would be Powering your Front Speakers & Get Better 2ch Music with the Stereo Amp
 

rccarguy2

Well-known Member
Take a look at Marantz too, usually said to be the more musical of the Denon and Marantz AVRs.
Marantz to Denon equivalents
SR6015 = X3700
SR7015 = X4700
SR8015 = X6700

Don't touch the 7015 get the 8015. Major issues with the 7015 which the 8015 doesn't have
 

ashenfie

Well-known Member
What about the Music life app that Arcam use for controlling access to music, is that better as well now ?
Can’t say i use music life. Many options these days, I use Qobuz
 

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