which av receiver? - list inside

AUTOgod

Standard Member
hi.

im having a hell of a time trying to decide on which receiver to go for.

firstly, a list of "demands" for their capabilities:
dolby true-HD and DTS HD
HDMI inputs (3 or 4)
3d capability (for future use)
minimum 6 channel analog input (for PC)

and what would be nice to have:
7.1 channels
phono input (for turntable)
best possible sound for money.

now a list of what i can find at retail (not online), that is in my price range:
pioneer vsx819h (marked down, a lot, 5.1 channel, 3 HDMI in, usb)
yamaha rx-v465 (on sale, 5.1 channel)
yamaha rx-v765 (7.1 channels)
denon avr1610
pioneer vsx520k with s11 and s21w (pricey, but includes speakers).

any help is appreciated.

EDIT: i know HDMI cables dont really affect video quality from cable to cable, but is the same true for HDMI passthrough on av receivers? or is it more marketing rubbish?
 
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logiciel

Moderator
Add a couple of Onkyos to that - if you must have 3D then it's the 308 or 608.
Some amps, including those two, do passthrough, but what was your point about the cables being different?
 

AUTOgod

Standard Member
Add a couple of Onkyos to that - if you must have 3D then it's the 308 or 608.
Some amps, including those two, do passthrough, but what was your point about the cables being different?
sorry, should have put it better :/

from what ive seen, HDMI video quality doesnt really change with a better cable (technically should't), and is far more dependant on the equipment on each end.
from what ive seen and read anyway. read a thread on here about it actually.
 

PSM1

Distinguished Member
hi.

im having a hell of a time trying to decide on which receiver to go for.

firstly, a list of "demands" for their capabilities:
dolby true-HD and DTS HD
HDMI inputs (3 or 4)
3d capability (for future use)
minimum 6 channel analog input (for PC)

and what would be nice to have:
7.1 channels
phono input (for turntable)
best possible sound for money.

now a list of what i can find at retail (not online), that is in my price range:
pioneer vsx819h (marked down, a lot, 5.1 channel, 3 HDMI in, usb)
yamaha rx-v465 (on sale, 5.1 channel)
yamaha rx-v765 (7.1 channels)
denon avr1610
pioneer vsx520k with s11 and s21w (pricey, but includes speakers).

any help is appreciated.

EDIT: i know HDMI cables dont really affect video quality from cable to cable, but is the same true for HDMI passthrough on av receivers? or is it more marketing rubbish?
You state you want 3D but I do not think any of the recievers you mention have 1.4a HDMI so will not be 3D compatible. If you really want 3D then you need to look at this years models. Hence it will be recievers like the Onkyo 308, Yamaha 367 and Sony 510. There is no need for the reciever to decode HD audio as long as it accepts audio over HDMI. All bluray players will decode HD audio and send it decoded via HDMI. If you are on a tight budget the the recievers I mention above will be the lowest price for the current ranges although most will not decode HD audio but all accept audio over HDMI so you will still get HD audio.
 

AUTOgod

Standard Member
hmmmm. there was one, it had DTS-HD and DD THD, with 3d capability, for silly cheap money, but i didnt make note of the name.

was definitely an onkyo.

ok, looks like i will wait a while longer. thanks for the help, aat least i now know for sure that i need one that can pass 3d, unlike what i was told lol

is there a way of marking this thread so it doesnt attract needless posts?
 

logiciel

Moderator
from what ive seen, HDMI video quality doesnt really change with a better cable
Quite right, imho. I was asking about what you said "is the same true for HDMI passthrough on av receivers?"
The Onky 308 with 3D capability is only £230. Isn't that less than the ones you listed?
 

AUTOgod

Standard Member
Quite right, imho. I was asking about what you said "is the same true for HDMI passthrough on av receivers?"
The Onky 308 with 3D capability is only £230. Isn't that less than the ones you listed?
ah, what i mean by that, is "is the "3d ready" stuff marketing dribble like "high speed HDMI" and "HDMI 1.3a ready cable", but i see from other posts that this isnt the case, and it is infact true. ho-hum :)

that might be the one, although i cant be sure.
i know for certain that it had 3D ready!"plastered all over the front.
and yes, it is cheap, and no i didnt list it :) (forgot to make a note of it).

EDIT: yes, it is the 308. maybe a little basic/low end for my taste, but it is new, so i may wait a little while and see if there is a sale.
 
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Sorreltiger

Novice Member
Are you sure you want 3D? IMHO it isn't much good at the moment and there's hardly any content available. It severely limits your options.
 

AUTOgod

Standard Member
to be honest, i dont want to end up getting another one any time soon if i get a new one now.

so getting one with 3d would be vital.
 

PSM1

Distinguished Member
Even without 1.4a HDMI you can still do 3d.This is because some players will have 2 HDMI outputs. One will be 1.4a to go direct to TV for picture and the other will be a 1.3 to take audio to an AV reciever.
 

logiciel

Moderator
And of course Sky HD can go direct into the TV for video, including 3D.
 

AUTOgod

Standard Member
im using a v+ box for HDTV, and my 3d blu-ray player would be a PS3 (when the update comes). the xbox 360 is also stated to be getting an update for 3d, but that could use optical for audio (dolby digital/DTS max support), so that wouldnt work.
 

AUTOgod

Standard Member
I take it you have a 3D TV then or are looking to get one.
not yet, i just got my current tv a year ago :) may get another in a couple of years, when the price has dropped enough.

just dont want to have to upgrade my receiver again when i do.
 

Passingbat

Distinguished Member
Not many AV amps have phono input (for turntable) these days. The Yamahas still seem to so, even on their midrange models.

If you want 3D futureproofing and full 3D Blueray player choice, it mat be worth paying a little bit more and getting the Yamaha 667. This has HDMI 1.4 and a phono input (for turntable).

RX-V667: Specs - AV Receivers/Amplifiers - Products - Yamaha UK and Ireland

They look to be about £400 and should be released in the middle of this month.
Yamaha RXV667

There may be other makes with turntable inputs and I'm just not aware of them, but they are part of the 'legacy input cull' we are seeing on new amps.

The 765 has a turntable input (if i recall correctly) but only has HDMI 1.3, which limits 3D BR player choice.
 
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AUTOgod

Standard Member
this is why im deciding to wait a while, until the cheaper 3d ready models start to surface (ie: on sale). there are a couple of pioneer models that have 3d (model 520 i think. not sure) at retail, and the onkyo 308, but that would seem to be it.

i much prefer to go retail, since if there is a problem, its a quick return, and a swap. whereas e-tail some postage is involved, opening many possibilities for damage (had some bad experiences, don't ask lol). thanks for the suggestions though :) and i will keep my eyes open for new models at retail.
 

logiciel

Moderator
Onkyo 608 also does 3D, but when I get a 3D TV I'm not going to change from my 607 just because of that.
The sources can go direct into the TV for video.
 

Passingbat

Distinguished Member
All models released in 2010 from standard AV manufactureres will have HDMI 1.4. Stay away from last years models if you definitely want HDMI 1.4
 

AUTOgod

Standard Member
Onkyo 608 also does 3D, but when I get a 3D TV I'm not going to change from my 607 just because of that.
The sources can go direct into the TV for video.
"my 3d blu-ray player would be a PS3 (when the update comes)."

heres the problem. well, one of many.
 

Passingbat

Distinguished Member
"my 3d blu-ray player would be a PS3 (when the update comes)."

heres the problem. well, one of many.
I don't know much about the PS3, but if that is going to be your only 3D source, then I think an HDMI 1.3 amp will be fine as the PS3 only has HDMI 1.3.

If you buy a new 3D BR player, then a 1.4 amp could be beneficial as it gives you full choice of 3D BR players.
 

AUTOgod

Standard Member
I don't know much about the PS3, but if that is going to be your only 3D source, then I think an HDMI 1.3 amp will be fine as the PS3 only has HDMI 1.3.

If you buy a new 3D BR player, then a 1.4 amp could be beneficial as it gives you full choice of 3D BR players.
well, they already have 3d games on there, that only work with 3d tvs, so i would assume that they have performed some kind of small miracle to get 3d out of a non-3d capable device.

EDIT: info here
 

Passingbat

Distinguished Member
well, they already have 3d games on there, that only work with 3d tvs, so i would assume that they have performed some kind of small miracle to get 3d out of a non-3d capable device.

EDIT: info here
Yes, but as the PS3 is only HDMI 1.3, those games should work with a 1.3 amp.

I think it's 3D blueray discs that require HDMi 1.4 (due to bandwidth/resolution issues). Will the PS3 eventually play 3D blueray discs at full resolution?

BTW, I still think anyone seriously interested in 3D should get a HDMI 1.4 amp if buying now.
 
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AUTOgod

Standard Member
Yes, but as the PS3 is only HDMI 1.3, those games should work with a 1.3 amp.

I think it's 3D blueray discs that require HDMi 1.4 (due to bandwidth/resolution issues). Will the PS3 eventually play 3D blueray discs at full resolution?
thats what they have been saying. if not, then no harm done, and ill get a full-res blu-ray player. if it does, and it only requires a 1.3 socket, then ill get an amp with HDMI 1.3, which will be cheaper by then. if it somehow supports/uses HDMI 1.4, then ill get an amp with 1.4.

and if 3d blu-ray discs require the full bandwidth, then a 1080p game should as well. video bandwidth doesn't change from video to games, the signal should be the exact same thing (the games require 2 60hz images, probably the same thing as 3d blu-ray).

just had a quick look, they mention 3d blu-ray support, but dont mention whether this is at full 1080p or not.

maybe they have made alterations to the firmware that allows the hdmi port to exceed their original specifications? microsoft did the same with the xbox 360, and its analog scaler chip (they added 1080p output by an update).

time will tell. no harm done for now, so ill wait and see :)
 

vipergrm

Well-known Member
Supposedly, the PS3 will do 1080i max via 3d because of bandwidth issues. Because HDMI 1.4 is a physical upgrade, you cannot upgrade a 1.3 HDMI port (PS3) to HDMI 1.4. It is entirely possible that Sony will release a PS3 with HDMI 1.4 but this isn't going to benefit you unless you swap with someone or part exchange if/when they become available.

This shouldn't be much of an issue as pretty much all 3D TVs available will easily convert to 1080p, or perhaps your amp may do this instead if applicable. If you want true 1080p 3D then you will most certainly need an HDMI 1.4 compatible Blu Ray player.

AUTOgod - You said that you've only had your TV for a year and don't plan to update it for at least another two. Personally, unless you really need an amp right now, I think you should wait as there is no benefit in picking up a budget 1.4 amp now when in two years you could get a much better one for around the same money.

Another point is that don't forget, the PS4 will be out in 2012 and that is likely to have HDMI2 which of course will easily be fully compatible. By this time 3D TVs be a lot more competitively priced. There is absolutely no point in upgrading if you aren't going to see the benefits.
 
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