Which amp (with HT bypass) for LS50 meta?

gibbsy

Moderator
Hey again @gibbsy :)
This is the bit confusing me. Since we are completely cutting out the AVR for all stereo playback, the only advantage of the pre-out->HT bypass option is that during home theater usage, the front left and front right can be amplified by the amp. However, during home theater usage, I thought most of the work is done by the central speaker, and the AVR has enough power for all the speakers in this situation. If that assumption is wrong, obviously let me know! But if that assumption is right, for HT, we shouldn't need the amp at all, while for stereo, we shouldn't use the AVR at all (as you mentioned). So how does the pre-out->HTBypass help, rather than just using a switch allowing us to connect the passive speakers to 2 different amps? Maybe it's cost related, but it isn't very clear to me.
It's because two separate systems are using the same pair of front speakers. It's as much for convenience as an enhancement of the AV amp's performance. For film and TV both AV amp and stereo have to be fired up and HT by-pass engaged on the stereo amp. If just wanting to listen to stereo music from sources connected to the stereo amp then it is only the stereo amp that needs to be powered up.

There is another way to achieve this if not wanting the stereo amp to run as a power amp and that is to use a speaker switch such as the excellent Beresford 7220.

In this configuration both AV amp and stereo amp have their front speaker binding posts linked to the Beresford. The Beresford is then connected to the left and right front speakers. There are two buttons on the Beresford marked A and B. The AV amp is connected to A and the stereo amp to B. Press which even system you want to use. Advantages of this are only one amp needs to be powered up at any one time. You are no longer tied to an expensive stereo amp with HT by-pass and a standard stereo amp will suffice.
 

psychedelicbeast

Novice Member
It's because two separate systems are using the same pair of front speakers. It's as much for convenience as an enhancement of the AV amp's performance. For film and TV both AV amp and stereo have to be fired up and HT by-pass engaged on the stereo amp. If just wanting to listen to stereo music from sources connected to the stereo amp then it is only the stereo amp that needs to be powered up.

There is another way to achieve this if not wanting the stereo amp to run as a power amp and that is to use a speaker switch such as the excellent Beresford 7220.

In this configuration both AV amp and stereo amp have their front speaker binding posts linked to the Beresford. The Beresford is then connected to the left and right front speakers. There are two buttons on the Beresford marked A and B. The AV amp is connected to A and the stereo amp to B. Press which even system you want to use. Advantages of this are only one amp needs to be powered up at any one time. You are no longer tied to an expensive stereo amp with HT by-pass and a standard stereo amp will suffice.
Thank you for confirming! You mentioned that you have a Rega-Elicit R I believe which is pure analog, right? Do you use an external DAC/pre-amp? If so, which one?
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Thank you for confirming! You mentioned that you have a Rega-Elicit R I believe which is pure analog, right? Do you use an external DAC/pre-amp? If so, which one?
My only music feed is a Denon SACD player which has an excellent DAC onboard and is connected to the Rega via analogue. The only other connection is my Denon AV amp's pre-outs into the dedicated HT by-pass line in. Simple set up that suits me, I don't stream music, I'm far too old for that and I'm firmly stuck in the late 20th century.
 

psychedelicbeast

Novice Member
My only music feed is a Denon SACD player which has an excellent DAC onboard and is connected to the Rega via analogue. The only other connection is my Denon AV amp's pre-outs into the dedicated HT by-pass line in. Simple set up that suits me, I don't stream music, I'm far too old for that and I'm firmly stuck in the late 20th century.
Makes sense. Sounds heavenly, I'm sure.
 
D

Deleted member 39241

Guest
That one went over my head :D. Any idea on how I can check this out?
You'd need to check with Kef what the input sensitivity is of that input. You could tell them what you are planning on doing and see if they have any thoughts on it.
 

psychedelicbeast

Novice Member
Actually, this might be the best advice for you in this thread. If you haven’t bought the AVR/stereo yet, then combine the budget and go look at the Arcam or Anthem range of AVR’s and save yourself a lot of hassle!
Is there any specific AVR you would recommend which would work well for music? Or are you saying that all Anthem and Arcam AVR's would be good for this? I'll do some research parallelly as well
 
D

Deleted member 39241

Guest
Hey again @gibbsy :)
This is the bit confusing me. Since we are completely cutting out the AVR for all stereo playback, the only advantage of the pre-out->HT bypass option is that during home theater usage, the front left and front right can be amplified by the amp. However, during home theater usage, I thought most of the work is done by the central speaker, and the AVR has enough power for all the speakers in this situation. If that assumption is wrong, obviously let me know! But if that assumption is right, for HT, we shouldn't need the amp at all, while for stereo, we shouldn't use the AVR at all (as you mentioned). So how does the pre-out->HTBypass help, rather than just using a switch allowing us to connect the passive speakers to 2 different amps? Maybe it's cost related, but it isn't very clear to me.
When AVR's are powering multiple speakers, the amount of power per speaker usually decreases. So having an additional external power amp in the mix, can be helpful.

I have used the Beresford speaker switch, and it is excellent, but it requires a surprisingly lot of cabling and banana plugs, and it is a manual switch. A stereo amp with HT bypass is easier.

But even easier still...
Is there any specific AVR you would recommend which would work well for music? Or are you saying that all Anthem and Arcam AVR's would be good for this? I'll do some research parallelly as well
I thought you already had the AVR. If not, let me point you to a very rare bargain in these times:


It is an end of line FMJ model, but the replacement AVR10 is twice the price. It is missing eARC and HDR10+ passthrough, but there are workarounds. The main thing is that it sounds excellent for both movies and music.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Thank you for confirming! You mentioned that you have a Rega-Elicit R I believe which is pure analog, right? Do you use an external DAC/pre-amp? If so, which one?
My only music feed is a Denon SACD player which has an excellent DAC onboard and is connected to the Rega via analogue. The only other connection is my Denon AV amp's pre-outs into the dedicated HT by-pass line in. Simple set up that suits me, I don't stream music, I'm far too old for that and I'm firmly stuck in the late 20th century.
 

Marshall Mike

Well-known Member
Is there any specific AVR you would recommend which would work well for music? Or are you saying that all Anthem and Arcam AVR's would be good for this? I'll do some research parallelly as well
Yes, they are all good, you decide on which unit you buy depending on the amount of channels you need.

For example, I’m about to upgrade my older Anthem MRX 310 which is 5.1 to the newer Anthem that’s just released, the MRX540 - also 5.1.
7.1 and 11.1 models are also available but the price goes up steeply as you add amp channels.

I’m going to also get a 2 channel power amp to get the most out of music, which already sounds amazing.

Anthem and Arcam are premium AVR’s which both ship with premium room correction software, but if you can afford them they are well worth the money.
 

psychedelicbeast

Novice Member
When AVR's are powering multiple speakers, the amount of power per speaker usually decreases. So having an additional external power amp in the mix, can be helpful.

I have used the Beresford speaker switch, and it is excellent, but it requires a surprisingly lot of cabling and banana plugs, and it is a manual switch. A stereo amp with HT bypass is easier.

But even easier still...

I thought you already had the AVR. If not, let me point you to a very rare bargain in these times:


It is an end of line FMJ model, but the replacement AVR10 is twice the price. It is missing eARC and HDR10+ passthrough, but there are workarounds. The main thing is that it sounds excellent for both movies and music.
Thanks! I'll check it out. It can only use 1 subwoofer it seems (the AVR10 also seems to have that limitation). Do you think that's an issue given lots of people seems to recommend using 2 subwoofers?
 
D

Deleted member 39241

Guest
Thanks! I'll check it out. It can only use 1 subwoofer it seems (the AVR10 also seems to have that limitation). Do you think that's an issue given lots of people seems to recommend using 2 subwoofers?
There are two sub outputs, they just put them in a weird place!

One is red and under the centre speaker pre-out, the other one is black and next to the height speaker pre-outs.
 

psychedelicbeast

Novice Member
There are two sub outputs, they just put them in a weird place!

One is red and under the centre speaker pre-out, the other one is black and next to the height speaker pre-outs.
Yeah got it! Actually Peter Tyson described it as 7.1.4 hence was confused! Time to checkout some reviews :D

Do you feel it will have enough power for(and will work well with) the LS50 Metas?
 
Hey again @gibbsy :)
This is the bit confusing me. Since we are completely cutting out the AVR for all stereo playback, the only advantage of the pre-out->HT bypass option is that during home theater usage, the front left and front right can be amplified by the amp. However, during home theater usage, I thought most of the work is done by the central speaker, and the AVR has enough power for all the speakers in this situation. If that assumption is wrong, obviously let me know! But if that assumption is right, for HT, we shouldn't need the amp at all, while for stereo, we shouldn't use the AVR at all (as you mentioned). So how does the pre-out->HTBypass help, rather than just using a switch allowing us to connect the passive speakers to 2 different amps? Maybe it's cost related, but it isn't very clear to me.
I think you need to revisit the posts above, it has been explained quite clearly by several different people. No offence, but it's not a difficult concept to understand, I think you are confusing yourself by introducing left field options such as active speakers into the mix.

HT Bypass set up:

In "HT mode" - AVR drives centre and all surround/atmos speakers that you may have. (While the centre speaker is an important one for movies, there is only one centre speaker as opposed to two L/R fronts, so more power is required for driving the fronts than the centre)

Stereo amp then drives the front L/R in a "power amp" only mode, ie the AVR pre amp stage is still used. So both AVR and amp are deployed.

In "Stereo mode" - AVR is OFF. Not used. forget it.

Stereo amp works as a normal stereo amp, and of course still drives the front L/R as normal.

That's it, don't complicate it.
 
Yeah got it! Actually Peter Tyson described it as 7.1.4 hence was confused! Time to checkout some reviews :D

Do you feel it will have enough power for(and will work well with) the LS50 Metas?
Just as a note of caution, you may wish to review some of the Arcam AVR owner's threads. They can be a bit flaky, and are not for everyone.
 
D

Deleted member 39241

Guest
Yeah got it! Actually Peter Tyson described it as 7.1.4 hence was confused! Time to checkout some reviews :D

Do you feel it will have enough power for(and will work well with) the LS50 Metas?
There are plenty of reviews about, I think AVF did one:


In terms of power, give it a try, it depends a lot on your room and listening habits as to how much power you need. There is always the option to add a 2 channel power amplifier at a later date. That won't require any special features like HT bypass, and will just be set-up and forget.
 

psychedelicbeast

Novice Member
I think you need to revisit the posts above, it has been explained quite clearly by several different people. No offence, but it's not a difficult concept to understand, I think you are confusing yourself by introducing left field options such as active speakers into the mix.

HT Bypass set up:

In "HT mode" - AVR drives centre and all surround/atmos speakers that you may have. (While the centre speaker is an important one for movies, there is only one centre speaker as opposed to two L/R fronts, so more power is required for driving the fronts than the centre)

Stereo amp then drives the front L/R in a "power amp" only mode, ie the AVR pre amp stage is still used. So both AVR and amp are deployed.

In "Stereo mode" - AVR is OFF. Not used. forget it.

Stereo amp works as a normal stereo amp, and of course still drives the front L/R as normal.

That's it, don't complicate it.
The point of my post was not to figure out how HT bypass works, but rather how it was more beneficial than using a switch.
 
D

Deleted member 39241

Guest
Thanks, makes sense. Will do
There are a number of AVR manufacturers who release new products when they don't have the software and firmware in place to fully support them. Arcam and more recently Anthem are known for this, hence they get a bad reputation for being flaky, and make the early adopters understandably frustrated.

The Arcam FMJ range are well established now, I have the AVR550 and have had zero issues with it since I got it in Sept 2018.

I think the new Arcam range and the new Anthem range are doing okay now also, or at least have most of the teething issues ironed out.
 
The point of my post was not to figure out how HT bypass works, but rather how it was more beneficial than using a switch.
Because:
1) A decent switch is not cheap.
2) It requires you to get up off your seat and operate it back and forth.
 

fatsoap

Standard Member
What about an Audiolab 6000A (RRP £599) - afaik this is the cheapest Integrated Amp with HT Bypass:


I have this amp in a similar setup to you (Denon x4500h, Monitor Audio Silver speakers, & SVS SB2000 Pro's) used 50/50 movies to music. I think it's a lovely bit of kit & has a great onboard DAC. Don't let the 50wpc output put you off this amp can go loud! Sevenoaks sells it bundled with the LS50's:


It doesn't have a built in streamer. The 6000APlay does, but I'd not get that. I'd buy a seperate streamer to pair with the 6000A (if you use streaming services like spotify).

If you don't need a DAC the Audiolab 8300A is an pure analogue amp with slightly more wpc @ 75.

There's also the Cyrus One or One HD. The HD has DAC.

These are all under £1000.
Hi! Sorry wanted to ask how did you set up your sub for both HT and Stereo? Am looking at almost the same set up with a X3700 and Audiolab 6000A play, but with a REL HT1205, which similar to the SB2000 doesn’t have high level inputs. Am thinking very hard about how to use the sub for both, so any advice is appreciated!

I wrote to REL but they suggested running the sub thru the Audiolab, and set up the AVR with no Sub. But I don’t prefer that approach as I can’t get audyssey and can’t do the crossovers for my surrounds (including atmos speakers).
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Hi! Sorry wanted to ask how did you set up your sub for both HT and Stereo? Am looking at almost the same set up with a X3700 and Audiolab 6000A play, but with a REL HT1205, which similar to the SB2000 doesn’t have high level inputs. Am thinking very hard about how to use the sub for both, so any advice is appreciated!

I wrote to REL but they suggested running the sub thru the Audiolab, and set up the AVR with no Sub. But I don’t prefer that approach as I can’t get audyssey and can’t do the crossovers for my surrounds (including atmos speakers).
The REL is from their Home Theatre range (hence HT) and it only has a low level LFE connection because it was built to be used with AVRs. The KEF T Serie subs have both high level and low level LFE connections and it was this serie of subs that can be used with both an AVR via LFE and stereo amp via the high level Neutrik connection.

Depending on your speakers I would run the sub for which it has been designed for and that's LFE use to take advantage of the .1 LFE channel on film and TV.
 

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