Which Amp Sub £1000

Nabs

Novice Member
Ok which av amp sub £900-£1000, replacing Denon 3802, to be honest found the Denon sound to lack energy. Mainly for dvd but also for music (not often). Speakers are mission fs2av - I know could do with upgrading them but that is the next hurdle.
 
M

Mentally

Guest
I personally believe the speakers are your main problem. The reciever is very good while the speakers aren't. I strongly suggest starting the upgrade from the speakers and avoid buying satelites.
 

alexs2

Well-known Member
Mentally said:
I personally believe the speakers are your main problem. The reciever is very good while the speakers aren't. I strongly suggest starting the upgrade from the speakers and avoid buying satelites.
I'd personally agree with this....the receiver isn't the most dynamic in the world,but is capable of far better than the speakers will be permitting it to do,and upgrading the receiver will still result in it being let down by the speakers.

Have a look around for a set of speakers in the price range you have available,and either take your receiver with you for a dem,or better still,try some at home in your own system.

If you really feel you have to begin at the receiver end,you'd need to look at offerings from all the major manufacturers,incl Pioneer,Denon and Marantz,with the Pioneer likely to offer you a more incisive sound than the others....seriously though,I'd recommend going with a good set of speakers first.
 

pragmatic

Well-known Member
Yep, upgrade the speaker and in a year or two time (with funds permiting) upgrade the receiver, about this time next year when the 'next cycle' starts alot more reciever will include HDMI as standard and we may start seeing some with the new HD audio standards build in, we may also see alot more digital amps, which appear to be showing lots of potential.

At the mo (although the 3805 is reportably a big improvement over the 3803 and 3802) your mainly missing out on PLIIx auto setup and the 7th channel* feature wise and sonicaly your speaker will be letting your amp down (or not performaing as well as it could) not the other way arround.

*after checking it has a 7th channel my bad
 

Ekko Star

Well-known Member
Nabs said:
Ok which av amp sub £900-£1000, replacing Denon 3802, to be honest found the Denon sound to lack energy. Mainly for dvd but also for music (not often).
The Denon's do have a soft sound. Personally I always feel they are lacking in the excitement stakes. A good set of speakers will help but the Denon sound will always be the Denon sound and the speakers will only be as good as what's driving them.

If you are a movie man then a more direct sounding amp would walk all over the Denon's. Yamaha are usually brilliant and Pioneer's top models do the business. Far better for movies IMHO. I'm running a Pioneer AX5ai. At £650 discounted at the moment for what is a £1300 amp it's got to be job done and you could put the rest of your budget towards better speakers ? You could always audition the newer AX4 to see if that is any better.
 

Nabs

Novice Member
Thank for your replies. The reason I am starting at the amp is I have had an offer for the amp and therefore thought I would start there - but I appreciate all your comments.
 

Ekko Star

Well-known Member
In which case just go for the Pioneer AX5Ai, trust me it's a serious amp :smashin:
 

alexs2

Well-known Member
If' you've had a decent offer for the amp,it may be a good time to consider changing both as soon as possible.

Obviously,if the money for the amp is from this route,then it's the logical route for you to follow,but in the short term,obviously the amp will be strangled to an extent by the speakers,which should be replaced as soon as possible.

Do take a look at the Pioneer receivers,as the sound will be closer to what you're after in terms of being more lively,but also try to get a feel for what sort of speakers you may want eventually to go with any new receiver,as you'll be looking for a good match there eventually.
 

Kazman

Well-known Member
I'd throw Onkyo into the mix as well, the equivalent Onkyo amps may offer an alternative exciting sound as well.

The AX5Ai is an awesome amp, and for a direct, powerful sound, it is one of the best out there :)

You could also scour the classifieds here for a decent Power amp and processor, something like a Parasound 1205A and a suitable processor would work wonders, the processor portion of which you could trade in for HDMI equipped ones when they arrive.

BUT!!! Like everyone else is saying, YOU NEED TO UPGRADE THOSE SPEAKERS!!
 

SBanga

Well-known Member
Another "agree with the speakers upgrade" post. I think if you want an exciting sound, the companies to go for would be Pioneer, Onkyo or Harmon Kardon. However, try to have an extensive listen with your prospective speaker package(s) to make sure the sound doesn't get too grating after an extended listen.
 

Knyght_byte

Well-known Member
Monitor Audio speakers work very well with a Denon amp

i have a 3803, fed by a 3910 and partnered with MA Silver S6 floorstanders, SLCR centre, SFX side surrounds and temporarily S2 rears (they will move to rear diagonals for music surround and another pair of SFX's will take over rear surround duties)....and im more than happy with the sound. I listen mostly to classical/jazz/bigband/trance/chill type music, but have a vested interest in hiphop of the older variety and some general acoustic.

apparently the new RS silver series speakers from MA are even better than my S silver series......so i'd suggest you lug your amp down to a Sevenoaks or other local MA dealer and get it hooked up to them and see what you think.....

the funny thing is, the people who say 'oh your amp is letting you down, change it for a different manufacturer will give you a different sound' are also the people who in another thread would tell you 'spend the money on the speakers, those are what make the biggest difference to sound'.........

so the least unbiased advice is this, find out what other speakers sound like on your current amp, if you are no satisfied then look in to getting another amp first.......dont just ignore the updated version of what you have tho, listen to that too.......then make up your mind....

:)
 

Ekko Star

Well-known Member
Knyght_byte said:
the funny thing is, the people who say 'oh your amp is letting you down, change it for a different manufacturer will give you a different sound' are also the people who in another thread would tell you 'spend the money on the speakers, those are what make the biggest difference to sound'.........
The amp and speakers are inexpiably linked. It's no point having excellent speakers and a rubbish amp or vice versa. The Denon Amps are known for their softer and warm sound and for a sound possibly lacking of energy and excitement. Musically they come across well rounded abut for movies they don't always cut it for some. You can hook them up with MA's to make it brighter but that's exploiting the characteristics of the speakers. Take a different brand amp with those very same speakers and you will yet again get a very different sound to the Denon / MA partnership.

There's no doubt about it the weak link is his speakers at the moment but his complaint is a fairly common one of the Denon. He will most likely need to change both to really get the sound he wants.
 

Nabs

Novice Member
Thanks for the comments. I agree of course the speakers I know are the weaker link at present, but I have the chance presently with the amp, so the speakers will have to wait for now, my next purchase after the amp will be a flat screen (that is a whole new question though prob on the lcd lines). I think it is better to upgrade from the source end first down to speakers as good speakers will probably show up a poor amp - but naturally all are linked. So based on changing amp - I guess the pioneer is probably the best option (of course I will demo it), possibly the ax4 if the hdmi thread is anything to go by after audition (I like the idea of hdmi switching for the lcd) or possibly the yamaha 2600
 

Ekko Star

Well-known Member
Go for a AX5Ai. Well within your budget and it's class through and through.
 

Kazman

Well-known Member
Ekko Star said:
Go for a AX5Ai. Well within your budget and it's class through and through.
No HDMI switching though :(

Which, judging by Nabs last post, is now a possible requirement, in which case the AX5Ai is no longer suitable :(.

The Yamaha 2600 could very well be an option with this new requirement. I don't know much about the AX4 as I haven't even seen one let alone heard one. Pioneer and Marantz tend to have the best current delivery from their amps, so with most other brands I'd tend to want to partner them with a power amp, even my Marantz SR7500 has benefitted greatly by adding a power amp to biamp the front main pair Quad 21L speakers, despite it's relatively high current output.

I would partner the Yamaha with at least a two channel power amp, so the workload is better distributed throughout the system and the Yamaha isn't robbed of performance. This is dependant on how power hungry your speakers are when you decide on them too, so you may not even need extra power :)

Oh, the joys of AV :)

It might be better if you could give us an overall idea on how much you will be spending on speakers and the type of speakers you will be going for (style speakers or full sized?), we already know you want a more attacking sound, but an idea of budget and speaker type will help us advise you better on your choice of amp.
 

Nabs

Novice Member
Speakers ventually probably upto £800, they would probably have to be more of a smaller or style speakers, wife's input and size of room which is medium.

To give you an idea a the moment on the front I have 2 mission fs2-av packs linked together. 2 nxt panels linker for front: left, right and middle channels, and for rears, have further 4 nxt speakers - connected in a 7:1 format. The rear 4 matrix together for 5:1 delivery and rear most two together for 6:1 delivery. With 2 mission fs2-s subs in the front left and right corners. My wife naturally would ideally like more compact speakers than the missions - so a balance is required.
 

Kazman

Well-known Member
Nabs said:
My wife naturally would ideally like more compact speakers than the missions - so a balance is required.
Talk about asking for the impossible :eek: :rotfl:

I don't think you can get much more compact than the FS2 or NXT panel speakers, heck, they are flat :D

I think you are asking for the impossible there :)

The only speakers I can think of where a high end amp will balance out are probably the B&W MT series, with a PV1 sub, they look good, and are easy to drive, but, I doubt you would need a £1000 amp to drive them, so you could steer part of that budget and slap it on top of the £800 you have laid out for your speakers.

How do you feel about that Nabs?

Personally, I think you should do the speakers next, and then the TV. Another option to look at would be the Mordaunt Short Genies.
 

Nabs

Novice Member
Just looking at the BW range - nice - I like th xts but there again looks are not everthing. Yeah the fs2s are flat but rather long esp when you have 2 linker together she would prefer a thicher but less long version (depth does not not bother her too much yet).
 

pragmatic

Well-known Member
You could look at the genies and quad mini speaker sets, although they are not flat they are compact they genies have a more recient design to them, were as the quads look like small (but cute) normal speakers.
 

Nabs

Novice Member
I was just at the home entertainment show in Manchester - heard the BW MTs being driven by an Onkyo amp - they were great!. Loved the new pioneer amp too (and loads others lexicon, cyrus etc but that is complete dreamland). Now really am thinking about a change of speakers too. Did not audition the genies sadly. The thing is if I am going to sell the missions fs2s what are they worth now?
 

Ekko Star

Well-known Member
Kazman said:
No HDMI switching though :(.
True, but that applies to most amps out there at the moment anyway. Unless you're driving two sets of HDMI display not sure whay you would need it as a major feature on an amp ? For the money you're saving (to put towards speakers) and the quality of the amp, the AX5 combo is difficult to beat.

I drive two HDMI PJ's and I am perfectly happy feeding it direct and via component.

AX5Ai + B&W MT30 = Nice package indeed :smashin:
 

conkerman

Active Member
Not sure whether a PV-1 will be too much for a medium sized room. it really is an awesome sub :)

I run a 3802 and the MT-20. I really like it, but I have always liked a smooth sound,can still kick it though.
 

Nabs

Novice Member
Was just browsing and came across a site selling the Arcam DiVA AVR250, mmm now which Arcam or Pioneer - to be honest never listened to arcam sound - how does it compare say to the denon or pioneer.
 

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