Question Which 65" OLED ?

Spy

Well-known Member
Probably a common question but I wanted to know which is the best option for me given my circumstances so here goes.

My plasma has a problem that can't be fixed so I need to replace it and can't wait for next year's models. I understand OLED is probably the best tech at the moment so looking at one of the current crop of 65" OLEDs.

The uses for the TV in order of priority & time spent are:
1) Watching steamed 4k movies and TV (60%);
2) Watching cable TV through Virgin Media V6 box (20%);
3) Game streaming with an Nvidia Shield and GE Force Now (10%)
4) Console gaming - maybe PS5 next year (10%)

The TV will be connected to a Sony 1080 AV Receiver for surround sound duties. I would like to use eARC to route sound from the TV and for video from the AVR.
In addition, I would like Dolby Vision support for HDR.

I have read about the VRR & 120Hz issue with this year's TVs but I can't wait until next year so will have to live with this.

Some aspects I have been reading about are for example, better motion on Sony A8 Vs LG X TVs but no HDMI 2.1. I am not sure how much of an issue not having HDMI 2.1 will be, now or in the future.

The TVs on my radar are the 65" variants of the LG GX (due to positioning of VESA holes), the Sony A8 and the Panasonic HZ1000.

Given my intended usage and all the above, which would be the best TV to go for today ?
Also, quality wise, are they all similar or are some better than others ?

@Phil Hinton I would also welcome your view based on your tests this year
 
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Goldorak

Distinguished Member
Yep...it is a super recurring theme...still there are some recent twist to the story.

The usual story:
Don’t buy now unless super bargain. Wait for end of q1 or even q2 for 2020 tv to hit rock bottom. You also have a glimpse of 2021 tv in Dec and q1 2021.
If you are a gamer, hdmi 2.1 is a mess and I will definitely wait.

what’s new:
Qantum dot oled and especially mini led should appear in 2021. Samsung and LG driving it and also Sony potentially.
I love oled but a Sony tv with mini led could be something at many many levels. We could be back to a legendary zd9. Just no 8k please :)
 

Spy

Well-known Member
Yep...it is a super recurring theme...still there are some recent twist to the story.

The usual story:
Don’t buy now unless super bargain. Wait for end of q1 or even q2 for 2020 tv to hit rock bottom. You also have a glimpse of 2021 tv in Dec and q1 2021.
If you are a gamer, hdmi 2.1 is a mess and I will definitely wait.

what’s new:
Qantum dot oled and especially mini led should appear in 2021. Samsung and LG driving it and also Sony potentially.
I love oled but a Sony tv with mini led could be something at many many levels. We could be back to a legendary zd9. Just no 8k please :)

Thanks. I am aware of waiting but as I stated, my current TV is broken and I need a replacement now, lucky we are in Black Friday territory, hence referring to the current crop of TVs and my post above
 

Goldorak

Distinguished Member
Thanks. I am aware of waiting but as I stated, my current TV is broken and I need a replacement now, lucky we are in Black Friday territory, hence referring to the current crop of TVs and my post above
Sorry as didn’t realise...
for oled, i have a pana and I love it but the more future proof seems to be LG CX.
usual suspects are Sony and also Philips (latter super bad for gaming).
do not ignore Sony hx900 and hx950. The former is very cheap for 65 and ps5 ready apparently.
if money no object, oled and they are all good (LG, Sony, pana).
 

Michael7877

Active Member
I say get a 65" A8H. It's at a good discount right now, and if you sell it in a year or less, you can get most of what you pay for it back to buy what you really want (and probably would have bought if your plasma lasted).

For the price (and in general), the A8H has a spectacular image and the best motion handling. Optimal for movies and at the point of seriously diminishing returns on investment in other areas. Similarly priced OLEDs don't come close to the A8H for movies. In a lot of ways it's a rebadged A9G. It appears Sony couldn't notably improve the A9G master series TV, so upped the lower cost proposition (A8H) to roughly its performance. The A9G is made from 2019 panels, and since the 2020 panels weren't used to create an A9H, it's reasonable to assume the performance increase of LG's 2020 panels is small enough to be considered non-existent.

Since you only game 20% of the time, and the Sony TV will do 1440p at 120hz, and the PS5 will render at 1440p for 120hz, the A8H is the best temporary TV to buy, use, and sell for maximal enjoyment with minimal investment now and maximal recoupment of costs later. The LG X and 9 models have problems with HDMI 2.1, so they will likely lose more value than Sonys between now and next year when people try to get rid of them to buy next year's problem free HDMI 2.1 TVs. A lot of places seem to be discontinuing burn in warranties. If you buy a TV with a transferrable warranty to sell in a year, you might even be able to get more than you paid for it by someone who thinks they're going to use the warranty too.

People in the market for a lightly used OLED for 4k 24/30/60p will know Sony and Panasonic sets with HDMI 2.0 are better choices for image quality, and in addition will be less likely to have been used by a full time gamer.
Gamers looking at OLED (new or used) will want optimally implemented HDMI 2.1 with no issues, which at that point Sony, Panasonic, and LG will all have examples to choose from. Since Sony and Panasonic beat LG at everything, when they no longer have a monopoly on 4k120, LG's going to have to sell their sets at a discount because Sony and Panasonic will have better video processing. It's probably why LG rushed its HDMI 2.1, to sell more sets while it still could lol.

4k120 compatibility for gaming doesn't really matter this year, or likely for most of 2021 (which is when I think you should upgrade properly - fall of next year). My 3080 only does 70-90fps at 4k with modern games at nice settings with 2x aa. A console is slower and there hasn't been time to "optimize" new games yet for the console's hardware, which is definitely needed to squeeze every last bit of performance out to approach 4k120. VRR wouldn't be needed if proper 4k120 was going to happen with consoles. The framerate will likely bounce between 60 and 80 in the beginning, moving up as time goes on. Racing games and fast paced shooters might be optimized for 120 by scaling 1440p to 2160p. Even Black Ops 3 on my 3080 bounces between 130 and 170 at 1440p. I vsync it to 120 and call it a day.

My vote for A8H for reasons above
 
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Spy

Well-known Member
Thank you for your comprehensive response @Michael7877

Since posting, I have discounted the Panasonic as I think he Sony offers similar for less money.

The issues is that the LGs will do [email protected] fine. If games can run at that, then there is no problem.
I believe the issue is when they drop below 120Hz and VRR has to kick in is when things go wrong, which as you describe could be quite common in the first few years of next gen games as developers get to grips with optimising their code.
 

Michael7877

Active Member
Thank you for your comprehensive response @Michael7877

Since posting, I have discounted the Panasonic as I think he Sony offers similar for less money.

The issues is that the LGs will do [email protected] fine. If games can run at that, then there is no problem.
I believe the issue is when they drop below 120Hz and VRR has to kick in is when things go wrong, which as you describe could be quite common in the first few years of next gen games as developers get to grips with optimising their code.

No problem.

I'd like to make a suggestion for a blu-ray/media player:

Panasonic DP-UB820

I think it'll be useful for the TV you get soon, and the next one, and maybe the one after that even. I actually think everyone should buy one lol.

I got one recently to be able to play 4k blu-ray discs. I now believe it's an indispensable tool which allows you to enjoy all content (HDR or SDR) to the fullest extent possible (Blu-Ray, Netflix, and Amazon Prime supported).

Up until this year, I believed that as long as a blu-ray player or streaming device wasn't malfunctioning, and that it had all image enhancement features disabled, that they would be indistinguishable from one another.

Wrong! But I think they should be, it makes sense that they would be. World's imprefect.

Anyway, after I logged into Netflix, with everything at set to default, I noticed a significant improvement in the visual quality of content. I'd previously had Netflix installed on my TV as an app, and then installed on my Apple TV 4k. My TV (A8G) is known for being a bit on the dim side with Dolby Vision. Additionally, HDR content seems to often be mastered quite dimly. Put together, especially during the day, I had a problem. I originally bought the Apple TV to disable Dolby Vision in Netflix, forcing HDR 10 to choose one of my TV's brighter picture modes not available in its Dolby Vision mode.
It worked, technically, but things didn't look great. It was like brightening what I saw in Dolby Vision - problems like the vignetting/banding and black crush appeared amplified or were at least still present. I found out later that the Apple TV, instead of asking for HDR 10 from Netflix to send to my TV, still grabs the Dolby Vision version and then converts it internally in its own way to HDR10.
BAD APPLE!

When compared, the bitrate of the same video looked much higher on the Panasonic (and was a bit brighter with better colours) during playback, even though the Apple TV was playing Netflix's 4k content. I assume there's only one version per resolution and mode (aka a single version for 4k HDR), but maybe top end players queue up a better version? It seems unlikely though.

Anyway, to see how good I could get things, I disabled Dolby Vision in the player menu and tried playing the same content again in HDR 10, this time with the brightness turned up a bit (Jessica Jones).

WOW!
Perfect image.
Much brighter too.
Nothing sacrificed except some dynamic range - you can't increase the TV's peak brightness along with the slider you use to increase overall brightness. It's unfortunate lol, but that's life.
So you know, when I say perfect, I mean perfect. Accurate colours, not washed out. As far as I can tell, any problems introduced from changing settings is a result of lower bitrate content - things are just missing in the file and their absence becomes apparent after adjustment. It doesn't happen often - Netflix, Prime, and UHD blu-rays especially usually have enough data present. Maybe a HDR file brightened all the way coming off a USB drive could be significantly affected

I think you should look at the reviews if you don't know about this player. Yourvideo source can make or break your entire experience. I had no idea how much the Apple TV was ruining my Netflix experience.
he image this thing puts out is phenomenal. They keep looking realistic past where you'd expect them to stop. There are limits of course, but they're way out there. The steps for adjusting things are small, too. Great for tweaking.

Brightening up a higher bitrate HDR blu ray can be done in such a way to make it look like an SDR film on a SDR TV with 600 nits peak brightness - great for a sunny room. Image quality obviously suffers (you definitely wouldn't do it in a dark room), and auto brightness limiter (ABL) kicks in during brighter scenes if you're using an OLED, but things look pretty great otherwise. Skin can look a bit off and the highlights don't "pop" anymore like they do in a dark room. But everything is visible in in the sun without looking washed out from adjusting the gamma to see the darker parts of the image. You can almost always leave gamma alone.

Anyway, I'll stop typing now lol. Let me know what you think of the 820/if you have questions about


 
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Spy

Well-known Member
Thanks Michael. As regards the Blu Ray player, I plan on using an Nvidia Shield 4K Pro which I understand is also excellent at upscaling
 

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