Which 42" - Pioneer 428 or Panasonic PZ700?

Discussion in 'Panasonic TVs Forum' started by Rob20, Jan 14, 2008.

  1. Rob20

    Rob20
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2004
    Messages:
    3,263
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +775
    I'm looking to replace my Toshiba 26" LCD sometime this year and have narrowed it down to either the Panasonic PZ700 or the Pioneer 428XD. I have a few questions I was hoping could be answered.

    I currently own a Pioneer DVD LX60, Wii, XBOX 360 and virgin cable. In the future I would look to get Sky HD as well as a Blu-Ray player. This will all go through my Onkyo 875 amp so any SD/720p pictures could be scaled to 1080p. I have a 5.1 speaker system and almost never use the tvs speakers.

    1) It seems to me that the Pioneer has the advantage of the better picture/contrast but by how much?

    2)How significant is the option of ISF calibration, and is it worth the expense at around £250?

    3) The Panasonic has a 1920/1080p resolution compared to the 1024/768 of the Pioneer. Does this matter from a distance of say 9 feet/3 metres?

    4) Ultimately, which has the better picture. The deeper blcaks and contrast of the Pioneer or the higher resolution of the Panasonic?

    5) As I'm in no rush to buy a new set, (Tosh works adequetly but is too small), would I be better to see what's out this spring?

    Lastly, I've seen the Pioneer for £1,600 inc pedestal and free 5 year guarentee, whereas the Panasonic is £1,500 and comes with pedestal + speakers but no 5 year guarentee. Which would you go for? :)
     
  2. Heavysalad

    Heavysalad
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    704
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    46
    Ratings:
    +91
    Out of those two there is no debate... its the Pioneer all day long regardless of the 5 yr warranty bonus... which is a nice bonus.

    If you consider the PZ70 (as i did) over the PZ700 ... The PZ70 is actualy a more recent model with on board sound quality being the only significant difference... then its a more tricky decision bcause you can pick up a PZ70 for under 1K. I got one for less than £900 and just couldn't warrany £600 extra for the Pio. The PZ70 is very good.

    If thats saving is not tempting then go Pioneer all day long.

    It would be nice to have the option to have ISF one day if you don't mind stretching to it ... I doubt I would ever bother so I'd lean towards the 4280xd as that would be pushing the budget for me anyway without the extra for the 428.... again... If $ is no worry then may as well go 428.

    Resolution wise... at 9ft on a 42" most would say you will not notice... but you will notice the better blacks/colour and contrast etc. Supposedly a better SD picture too.

    If you are in no rush... you wait and see what the new Panasonics are like they should be out soon and the PZ70 replacement should be on your budget at release... you'd expect them to be on par with the 428 Kuro but will have 1080p too ... look for Panasonic news from CES and see if anything tempts you (bearing in mind all the hype is designed to tempt you ;) ) ... Pioneer won't be 'till later in the year I think.
     
  3. Rob20

    Rob20
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2004
    Messages:
    3,263
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +775
    First off, thanks for taking the time to reply. I'm sure this sort of question has been asked a thousand times. To be honest I hadn't really considered the PZ70 but being £600 cheaper would probably make all the difference. Unfortuantly, I don't have unlimited funds but I do want to buy a tv I'll be happy with. If the Pioneer's higher PQ isn't worth the extra £600 then I'd rather go with the PZ70. Especially when you see what's just round the corner from both Pioneer and Panasonic in the next few years.

    Just a couple of questions about the PZ70, are the HDMIs 1.3 compatible, and will they accept a 24fps signal.
     
  4. FuzzyinLondon

    FuzzyinLondon
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2007
    Messages:
    506
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +31
    That's excellent advice from Heavysalad. After seeing the 4280XD and the PZ700, I decided the PZ700 wasn't anywhere near the Pioneer when it came to picture quality. However, when I factored in the PZ70, it became a much harder decision as the PZ70 is excellent value for money and offers the same, if not better picture quality, as the PZ700. I went for the 4280XD because I could at the time. But if money had been a bit tighter, I would've definitely snapped up the PZ70. If you can, get a good look at both showing a range of materials.

    From 9 feet away, you will not notice the resolution difference. At that difference, the contrast and colour reproduction are more important. As stated above, you might be better off waiting until the spring. Bear in mind though, that when the new Panny's are released, they won't be cheap and will probably be priced quite close to the current Pioneer prices.
     
  5. FuzzyinLondon

    FuzzyinLondon
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2007
    Messages:
    506
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +31
    No they are HDMI v1.2. Not a big deal at the moment as there aren't much in the way of exclusively 1.3 features out there yet. They do accept a 24fps signal but convert it to 60hz. You may notice a slight judder on slow panning shots. It doesn't seem to bother most owners. The next generation of Panasonics will have HDMI 1.3 and some will have proper 24fps (will convert a 24hz signal to 96hz so no judder).
     
  6. Rob20

    Rob20
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2004
    Messages:
    3,263
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +775
    Cheers for the reply Fuzzy. I suppose I would look to have my next tv for a minimum of 5 years. Though saying that I've had my current tv for just over 3 so who knows. Perhaps it's better to wait for 24fps + 1.3 compatibilty as I'm quite keen on getting a Blu-Ray player at some point this year.
     
  7. nomadd

    nomadd
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2007
    Messages:
    190
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +18
    I went for the Pio 4280. Great set, SD, HD and gaming. Mine can't be ISF'd, but I don't think it's worth it on the set anyway (I've had a good play with the settings since I've owner it and I'm very happy with the picture on all input sources.)

    Nomadd
     
  8. Heavysalad

    Heavysalad
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    704
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    46
    Ratings:
    +91
    Toi answer your questions... There is some debate about the HDMI ver but I believe it is ver 1.2 on all current Panasonics. I wouldn't worry about that (I did for a bit) as by the time 1.3 is offering any real world benefit you will likely be upgrading again at half the price.

    The PZ70 accepts a 24p signal (some would say better than the PZ700 which is why i would rather have the PZ70 over the PZ700 regardless of cost) ... it does NOT display at 72hz like the Pioneer, it converts to 60hz and therefore technicaly does not display a completely judder free image for Blu Ray discs at 1080p/24p.

    However... it does do an excellent job ie: better than most Tvs that do the same conversion. Most owners swear there is no judder at all and it seems that the PZ70 also had What Hi-Fi mag fooled for a while until they were beaten into submission on their forum.

    I have spotted mild judder once or twice on slow pans but but I've been looking for it and its been a second or two at a time... nothing particularly bothersome... and certainly not worth £600 eliminate.

    The only real negative thing I have noticed... as i have posted on the PZ70 owners thread... is that i have recently noticed that sometimes the blacks / contrast gets a bit washed out on the odd scene on SD freesat. One moment it looks stunning with deep inky blacks... then, next camera angle looks a bit washed out, more LCD like... i'm pretty sure its down to the source though and not the TV.

    The PZ70 is a very good plasma and hard TV to ignore for value ... If the Pioneer 4280xd were within £200 or so then I would consider the stretch but like you say, if your talking £600

    If you havn't already... check out the reviews at www.* . Both the PZ70 and the 4280xd are reviewed there.

    Hope this helps.
     
  9. Edward P

    Edward P
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2007
    Messages:
    176
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Leamington Spa
    Ratings:
    +19
    I've seen all of the models you mention, albeit in different and imperfect conditions, and I'm tending towards the 428 myself for its decent mixture of facilities, PQ and design. Don't think its lack of resolution is a problem, really, could be a benefit if you watch a lot of SD TV or upscaled DVD. That price you quote is excellent, if it includes the 5yr Pio warranty, where did you see this, may I ask?
     
  10. Jarroda

    Jarroda
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    Messages:
    815
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +86
    Just to check which TV you are looking at here. The Pioneer at £1,600 is a 42" panel. For £1,400 however you get a 50" panel.

    You have to remember the 50 has a far bigger presence and visual impact than any 42.

    Alternatively I believe you can aquire the 42pz70 for less than £1,000.
     
  11. Ivor_Biggern

    Ivor_Biggern
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,314
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Ratings:
    +136
    I was very tempted myself with a Pioneer but i just didn`t think that the tv warranted an extra £600 when the PZ70 has a stunning picture for under £1k so i went for the 42PZ70.

    I am going to use the money i have saved to get a Onkyo TX-SR605 amp and a good speaker package, i was suprised at how good the PZ70 sounds and to be honest it doesn`t really need an extra sound system but this is just something i want to do.
     
  12. bogopper

    bogopper
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi

    I was just about to buy the 42PZ70 having studied the reccomendations of various sites & magazines.

    However they seem a little difficult to get hold of at the moment, and ther seems to be talking about new models.

    Anyone got any inside info on new model availability?

    cheers

    Mark
     
  13. best-deal

    best-deal
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2007
    Messages:
    38
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +1
    The PZ700 dedicated inbuilt speakers are amazing far better than PZ70.

    PZ700 is HDMI 1.3

    Has inbuilt SDHC slot for AVC HD playback and still pictures

    Has 3 HDMI slots and also direct connection for PC.

    The reviews go as far to say PZ700 is the best HDTV they have seen to date, in terms of picture quality.

    http://www.trustedreviews.com/tvs/review/2007/07/30/Panasonic-Viera-TH-42PZ700B-42in-Plasma-TV/p1

    http://www.tracyandmatt.co.uk/blogs/index.php?s=panasonic&submit=Search&sentence=AND

    If it can be got than for a good amount less than 1500 and with 5 years warranty as i did then its okay but 1500 is too much to pay.

    But waiting for the PZ800 series which will have more features than the PZ80 can also be an alternative.
     
  14. Heavysalad

    Heavysalad
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    704
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    46
    Ratings:
    +91
    The PZ700 is not HDMI ver 1.3.

    All current Panasonic panels are 1.2a
     
  15. Ivor_Biggern

    Ivor_Biggern
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,314
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Ratings:
    +136
    This is the overall point though as you pay a premium for that and in my opinion its not worth the extra £500 with the PZ700, you can buy a great Onkyo TX-SR605 amp with the money you have saved with the PZ70 along with a speaker package as yamaha do a good speaker set up for £200 and your sound will then be far superior to that of the standard PZ700 set up with the PZ70.
     
  16. best-deal

    best-deal
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2007
    Messages:
    38
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +1
    http://www.amazon.com/HDMI-1-3-comp...LXY4GNSX8P2F/1?_encoding=UTF8&asin=B000QI1R94


    "Thank you for your inquiry. The TH42PZ700 is HDMI version 1.3. Thank you
    for your interest in Panasonic products.

    Thank You,
    Panasonic Consumer Support"

    Brilliant

    I did not pay 1500 so i would not of saved 500 to spend on a speaker system. I did say 1500 was too much. Of course you can spend the 500 on speakers if you did pay 1500 but PZ700 speakers are much better than PZ70 speakers by single comparison.

    Does the PZ70 have the SDHC slot for AVCHD playback i don't know if it does.

    What about PC connection?

    Is there a front mounted HDMI slot for camcorder or other quick access?

    What about SRS TruSurroundXT?
     
  17. wandersen

    wandersen
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2005
    Messages:
    521
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +12
    And of course those reviews were before the 8G Pioneers were released.
     
  18. best-deal

    best-deal
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2007
    Messages:
    38
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +1
    How can the PZ700 compete with other TV models that were not released at time of review, it will be good to see how the more recent Panasonics compare with the recent Pioneers, rather than comparing old models with new models.

    The main thing about those reviews was that they both said the PZ700 was the best HDTV they had seen to date (relative to the time of the review). I read the same thing from other avs forums which also correlated with what the answers i got from long serving store experts. IMO Pioneer make some the best sets but i was not comparing the PZ700 to the pioneer but to the PZ70. If the Panasonics can get near to the quality of the Pioneers which imo they do then that itself is an achievment.
     
  19. Scott_Mac

    Scott_Mac
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2005
    Messages:
    6,110
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Bromsgrove
    Ratings:
    +628
    Never let the facts get in the way of proving your point.

    From having seen all 3 at various points i would say the following is true in terms of PQ

    Pioneer 428XD > Panasonic TH42PZ70 > Panasonic TH42PZ700

    Factoring price in to the equation the PZ700 still comes last, but then it becomes a personal preference... the Pioneer has a better picture, no question but whether anyone can justify paying the extra £500 or so to get that better picture is up to them.... spending more than either on the PZ700 is plain daft IMHO.
     
  20. Scott_Mac

    Scott_Mac
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2005
    Messages:
    6,110
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Bromsgrove
    Ratings:
    +628
    But the PZ700/PZ70 are the equivalent of the 8G Pioneers... Pioneer are bringing new sets out this year as well, they look rather impressive too!
     
  21. Heavysalad

    Heavysalad
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    704
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    46
    Ratings:
    +91
    I have this response from Panasonic UK customer support:

    " In response, I would confirm that all of our current models are HDMI Version 1.2a. " I believe this is the case.

    The PZ70 does have an SD slot.

    It does have a PC D-Sub connection (though DVI to HDMI is a better option)

    I doesn't have the extra easy, front access HDMI slot.

    I'm not sure about what sound specs its got other than its not as good as the PZ700 for sound ... I listen through a Marantz amp and 5.1 Mission speakers which is in a different league to both models on board sound of course.
     
  22. best-deal

    best-deal
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2007
    Messages:
    38
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +1
    I have said already that 500 more is too much, so if you spend much less then its not daft. If you need good internal speakers and an SDHC for AVCHD playback its not daft, or if you need 3 HDMI slots Version 3.1. So if one can get the PZ700 for around 250 more than the PZ70 and needs those PZ700 extra features then i don't see a problem.

    I agree about the pioneer but otherwise your point is Highly subjective, did you caibrate the models to the best they can be, did you test the same HD source material on both etc

    So imo its better to take the opinion of reviews done by professionals thats why i never say definately that one has better picture than the other and thats why i left links for reviews.

    What i meant was they were not released the same time so for example an equivalent product being released later than the competition can mean it had more time in development and hence would be better in some cases.
     
  23. Ivor_Biggern

    Ivor_Biggern
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,314
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Ratings:
    +136
    The PZ00 is obviously a fantastic tv, my original point was that in my opinion it doesn`t warrant the extra £500 or so which is the current price difference between the 42PZ700 and the 42PZ70 as their isn`t an obvious difference in picture quality between the 2 sets.

    When i look for a tv the most important thing for me is the picture quality as the sound can be boosted by a home cinema system, with the £500 you save with the PZ70 you can get an excellent external sound system that would be far better than the PZ700`s standard set up.

    The 42PZ700 is currently around the £1450 mark, the 42PZ70 can be had for £899 and thats a huge difference in price for virtually the same picture quality. Both are excellent tv`s and produce a stunning picture.
     
  24. FuzzyinLondon

    FuzzyinLondon
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2007
    Messages:
    506
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +31
    I do think you get more than just picture quality for £500. You get:

    - an undoubtedly better sound system

    - 3 v1.3 HDMI slots that all accept a 1080p24 signal for the Pioneers special 72hz mode

    - Each input can be customised for your source - the Kuros really are a tweakers delight. The ability to do the was a huge reason why I chose the Pio over the Panny. The Panny's picture settings are very basic in comparison.

    Obviously I'm a bit biased having bought a Kuro. But if you check my post history, you'll see that I've recommended the Panny to a few people, having tested pretty thoroughly before making the decision to plump for the Pio. I think the Panny PZ70 is great value and everyone should have a good look at both if they can.
     
  25. Heavysalad

    Heavysalad
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    704
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    46
    Ratings:
    +91
    I would still have reservations about going for a PZ700 over a PZ70 even at the same price...

    In fact I recently had a sniff of an opportunity to get 50"PZ700 swapped for my 42PZ70 for less than £100 extra... Whilst genuinely considering this and thinking it was a no brainer because the 50PZ700 should've been £800 more... that was just $ talking... when it really came to the crunch I was constantly worried that the PQ... in particular the handling of 24p and judder... would be worse on the PZ700 wich does not 'officially' have the same stated support as the more recent PZ70.

    I'm not concerned with an extra HDMI slot that can be cheaply added to an even more convenient position along with others whenever needs be ... or the sound because I wouldn't listen to on board sound whatever quality.

    One thing the PZ700 has is that it is a better looking unit imho.


    For me, as has been said really... out of the three you'd be mad not to go for the Kuro if you are paying the $ ... the PZ70 is the no brainer if you want to save significant $ and really, the PZ700 would have to be heavily discounted to very close to the PZ70 to be in the ball game at all... unless you absolutely refuse to get an external sound system and feel the better onboard sound is worth £300-£500 extra and don't feel the Pioneer is a better panel for some reason.
     
  26. best-deal

    best-deal
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2007
    Messages:
    38
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +1
    There was a poster that got offered the PZ700 for 150 more over his existing PZ70 order and he did it with no worries and has no regrets whatsoever. Have you seen how the PZ700 actually handles 24fps i have heard that it handles it well but would like to know how big is the difference from PZ70 to PZ700 in reality rather than just seeing the spec difference. Also there is something more to the "24fps" the TV has to have another key requirement to support this, i read this somewhere in a "technical heavy" thread but without this requirement the "24fps" is pointless. Don't recall the exact details but visit the 1080p 24fps thread.

    If the PZ700 and PZ70 were the same price I could not ignore the High def playback via SD card and to use the TV like a High Res still image display, not to mention the HDMI ver 1.3 and Direct PC connection that the PZ70 has neither of. Also i like that the third HDMI is positioned right in the front and that saves huge time if changing consoles and so on and for camcorders also. Reading on the HDMI ver 1.3 seems as though its doubles the bandwidth, on the Pioneer imo a lot are agreed on it being one of the best. Even if those reviews i posted were made before the release of the Pioneer 8G series, its no shame to come 2nd to the Pioneer which will put most plasmas in the shade.
     
  27. Heavysalad

    Heavysalad
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    704
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    46
    Ratings:
    +91
    Re: the 24p thing... no I havn't seen how the PZ700 displays it, just heard conflicting reports much like with the PZ70 only not as positive... some would say it was improved through a firmware update if that is possible.

    Either way... I have seen the PZ70 handle it and scrutinized it because I have one ... and I'm pleased that it does a great job despite not refreshing at a multiple of 24hz like the Pioneer does... I would still like the Pioneer over my PZ70 for this reason amongst a few others but not enough to warrant the current price difference. The PZ70 is exceptional value right now.

    What I am saying is... Knowing that my PZ70 displays 24fps as well as I know it does, even at 60hz was enough for me to be concerned about swapping it out for a bigger PZ700 worth £800 more... even at almost no extra cost ... it was quite a unique positon to be in and I was quite surprised to find myself thinking that maybe I shouldn't bother despite the glaring bargain.

    Put me in the same position to upgrade my 42PZ70 for a Pioneer 4280xd for £100 and I wouldn't hesitate... let alone a 50".


    Also... re: the 50PZ700 being HDMI ver 1.3 ... again, I really don't think it is so I wouldn't count on that in the equation. I have been told on several occasions by Panasonic that ALL their current panels are ver 1.2a.
     
  28. best-deal

    best-deal
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2007
    Messages:
    38
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +1
    See on one of my earlier posts there is a quoted response from panasonic saying the 42thpz700 is HDMI ver 1.3 and you can visit the avsforums where it is also mentioned.
     
  29. Rob20

    Rob20
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2004
    Messages:
    3,263
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +775
    RGB Direct, but it doesn't include delivery or speakers - http://www.rgbdirect.co.uk/ProductDetails.asp?SKUNumber=105385
     
  30. Rob20

    Rob20
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2004
    Messages:
    3,263
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +775
    I was originally comaring the Pioneer with the PZ700 which is around £1,500 I believe.
     

Share This Page

Loading...