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Which 32" / 37" LCDs allow DIGITAL 1:1 native res. mapping ?

Discussion in 'LCD & LED LCD TVs' started by Fudoh, Sep 5, 2005.

  1. Fudoh

    Fudoh
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    Hi fellow board members,

    I'm wondering which LCD TVs / Displays allow a digital 1:1 pixel mapping in their native resolution ??

    So far I know these:

    - Acer AT3201W
    - BenQ 3250
    - LG 32LZ31 and LP1R (old models)
    - Nec LCD3210 (not a TV, just a Display)

    And the spring's 32" Philips LCD TV (can't find the actual product name right now)

    Currently I own a Samsung LE-32R51 which is nice, but doesn't allow a digital feed in it's native resolution. The other TVs named above are either extremely ugly (BenQ) or have to much width since they have speakers on their side.

    The Nec LCD3210 would be great (I've seen it live), but it's DVI port does not support HDPC - bummer....

    Does anyone a 32/37" LCD Display or TV to add to the above list ??

    Thanks
    Tobias
     
  2. andrewfee

    andrewfee
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    I'm surprised you're not satisfied with the quality over VGA on the Samsung LE32R51.

    Can I ask what it is you don't like about the image? While it's not 1:1 mapped, I can't see any difference between 1280x720 over vga or hdmi.

    (of course 1360x768 is sharper, but I can't see a difference between the inputs)
     
  3. jimg

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    Sharps?
     
  4. Fudoh

    Fudoh
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    Sharps can't do it - just the usual PC modes like XGA.

    @andrewfee

    don't get me wrong. I love the Samsung's picture - really. Especially since I feed him through my Crystalio Scaler.

    What bothers me about the setup is that the Crystalio is HDCP compliant while the Samsung's VGA port of course isn't. This means I can feed HDCP (digital TV HD broadcast) into my Crystalio, but it will only output it processed on the DVI-D port, not via VGA.

    Tobias
     
  5. brakepad

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    The no-longer-available Sharp LC32GA3E (& 4E) list 1366x768 in their supported PC resolutions, so hopefully the new models will support it too.

    The Hitachi 32LD7200 will do it with some persuasion and with certain video cards (favours nVidia).

    Edit: The Acer has removable speakers I believe.
     
  6. Fudoh

    Fudoh
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    Thanks !

    The current Sharp Generation does not support PC resolution in the digital domain, just via VGA. I tried the Hitachi and as you said, it's *picky*, which means it won't accept my Scalers signal.

    I've just noticed that Samsung has a nice 32" presentation TFT in their program as well, but I guess it's not HDCP compliant just like the Nec.

    Tobias
     
  7. BryanKitts

    BryanKitts
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    The other issue with VGA, if previous threads are to be believed, is that it's limited to 60Hz, so any PAL TV or DVD from an HTPC via VGA will suffer frame-rate conversion (e.g. judder on scrolling text).

    I believe the Relisys RLT3200 did native resolution via DVI but has been discontinued so will probably be difficult to find.
     
  8. Fudoh

    Fudoh
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    That's right, but not an issue for me. With about 2500 NTSC DVDs vs. about 100 PAL DVDs, I'll get over it. And the Crystalio does a great job on 50->60Hz conversation - very minimal judder on scrolling text on TV news channels...

    Tobias
     
  9. andrewfee

    andrewfee
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    Yes, I realise that, it's just that most people want 1:1 mapping for PC use as a monitor, wheras if you're using it for a media centre, the 1280x720 > 1366x768 scaling is minimal.

    I wrongly assumed this was what Fudoh had wanted to do, my mistake.
     
  10. Yaka

    Yaka
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    bugger i was looking into getting one of them
     
  11. Fudoh

    Fudoh
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    no, you're right, just want it as a media center for video playback.

    But have you compared it ? I did. 720p produced by a Denon 3910 via HDMI to my Samsung is nowhere as good as 1360x768 via VGA through my external scaler fed via SDI (480i).

    The Samsung's scaler ist really bad and not only that, the HDMI input introduces severe overscan which is the even bigger problem... And besides: when using the HDMI input the Samsung's "picture DNIe" kicks in, producing ghosting and oversharpness effects. The picture on the VGA port is much better.

    I'm quite surprised that there are no "pure" Displays around on the market. If you check the Plasma market, all the big manufacturers like Pioneer or Panasonic offer "Displays" and TVs of their panels.

    Tobias
     
  12. ianh64

    ianh64
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    The Loewe Xelos SL/Spheros do. I also think the Xelos 'A' series does too - I am sure someone has definately got 1366x768 via VGA working on the A series in another thread. Everyone that I have spoken to at Loewe and Linn when asked have confirmed 1366x768 is supported on the SL/Spheros and believed to be at 50 and 60Hz too and I know of no other LCD that allows this, or certainly 12 months ago. I have not tried it for myself.

    In addition, amongst the scaling modes supported by the Loewe are 16:9 which will scale a 720p/1080i signal to the panel resolution or 'original' which will display it dot for dot. For a 720p signal, this is with borders although for 1080i this will be downscaled to fit the screen so is not true dot for dot. Higher resolutions, such as 1366x768 should fit the screen perfectly with no overscan - I only have access to 1024x768 and 720p/1080i - still awaiting my DVD manufacturers to provide user defined scaling. I normally run 720p with final upscaling in the Xelos SL as I prefer the larger picture area over the fractionally better PQ that can only be appreciated at closer than normal viewing distances.

    Like everything digital, try before you buy and don't take anyones word for it until you have seen it working how you want it to with your kit.
     
  13. stu1wyatt

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    Hi,


    I got this TV and think it's awesome with my PC, I have an x800 pro card and plugged it in via the DVI socket on the LG and I got full screen video with 1 to 1 mapping.

    My graphics card let me select the 1368 * 768, playing battlefield 2 on a 32" screen was awesome, didn't notice any delay.

    This TV has an impressive amount of connectors including DVI & HDMI, highly recommended imo
     
  14. brakepad

    brakepad
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    Do you mean the GA5 series, or the new GA7/GD7 series?

    I'm gutted if it's the latter. What sense is there in offering less functionality than your previous models?
     
  15. Abracadaver

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    Do you have a link or document confirming this, because I'm waiting to buy either the ga6 or gd7 model and this would be my main reason to go with sharp. Not having this functionality would make me look further...
     
  16. brakepad

    brakepad
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    Just downloaded the Sharp 26/32/37GD7E manual from sharp.de, and there doesn't appear to be a table of supported HDMI resolutions and my German isn't good enough to know what the text says.

    For some bizarre reason they've gone with the HDMI/VGA combination rather than HDMI/DVI-I. Even more strangely, the only resolutions mentioned for the VGA port are 800x600 and 1024x768, but again there is no comprehensive table of supported resolutions.

    Complete and utter disbelief :-(
     
  17. shaddow2005

    shaddow2005
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    Hi stu1wyatt

    I'm not quite sure what model you are talking about , do you have a link. Also do they do a 37" version ;-)

    Thanks
    Greg
     
  18. Abracadaver

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    My German is ok, and it indeed does not hold a table like the previous ga3 manuals did.
    But I more or less assumed that they would not remove functionality.
     
  19. brakepad

    brakepad
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    Based on a selection of some of the newer LCDs, I get the impression that there is some kind of standards issue with non-VESA resolutions over HDMI. That's certainly the response that Hitachi gave when I asked about it.

    It almost appears as though the VGA port is something of a workaround for PC owners, but it would make much more sense to have HDMI + DVI-I instead of HDMI + VGA.

    I can't think of any good reason why Sharp would remove digital PC connectivity from its latest top of the range LCD TV's but it does appear as though they have done just that.
     
  20. Traffic

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    Hi Shadow2005

    Here's a link for the LG:

    http://uk.lge.com/prodmodeldetail.do?actType=search&page=1&modelCategoryId=0102&categoryId=0102&parentId=01&modelCodeDisplay=32LX2R&model=NOTHING

    It looks superb and there is a whole range of sizes featuring their XD engine. I've just seen it in the States with a HD feed with lots of fast moving action and it loooked fantastic, even better than the Sony sitting right next to it (which was a V model!). Didn't get a chance to audition it however but what I saw what excellent. :thumbsup:

    Traffic
     
  21. shaddow2005

    shaddow2005
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  22. robe1101

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    Like many people in this thread I too was holding out to get one of the new Sharp GD7E for use with a HTPC and MCE but now Im not sure.

    Could someone tell me if this combination will work ie HTPC to GD7E via HDMI or VGA with a decent picture quality and no juddering text etc.

    Im getting very confused with all these connection types, resolutions, 1:1 mappings and frequencies etc.

    Someone please help .....
     
  23. Traffic

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    Good spot Shadow

    Talk about confusing... You've got to be on your toes to make sure you get what you want. Surely it shouldn't be like this...
     
  24. Sledge

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    The GA6/GA7 Series do support 1366x768 mode or 1:1 Pixel mapping from a PC.

    I've spoken to Sharp UK and they confirmed this as I'm awaiting a replacement model for my GA3 that I broke.
     
  25. Fudoh

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    This is what I understand as well, but I think the GA6/GA7 won't do this at the same time. In other words: you should be able to feed 1366*768, but it won't be a 1:1 mapping and you can achieve 1:1 mapping with other settings like XGA.

    Same as with the previous series...

    Tobias
     
  26. brakepad

    brakepad
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    Don't quite understand that. If you can feed it 1366x768, what does it do if it's not 1:1?

    I never saw one running, but I always thought that the GA3/4 would do 1366x768 over DVI as it states in the manual, which by definition is 1:1 unless it over or under scans.
     
  27. RockySpieler

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    A number of natively 1366x768 LCD's will accept a DVI or VGA 1366x768 input from a PC, but will still scale the image slightly. In some cases applying overscan, especially on HDMI inputs. Unless a manufacturer advertises 1:1 pixel mapping, AND it is confirmed by users on these forums, do not take verbal assurances by UK based sales staff regarding a TV designed and built 1000's of miles away. Printed manuals and manufacturer's website have been shown to regularly contain errors to the specification, so even if you read it has 1:1 pixel mapping you may still be dissappointed.

    On my TEVION the scaling is very slight but every 3rd letter is slightly out of sync, you can play with "width", "phase", and "frequency" setting till your hearts content, but it does not show noticable improvement. It is the same whether I use DVI-D or DVI-A (VGA).

    From the many threads, the LG LX2R's have very successfull 1:1 digital pixel mapping.
     
  28. Fudoh

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    Scale it to 4:3 and then stretch it to 16:9 I guess... Many LCD TVs do this and what I've read some Sharps did this as well.

    Tobias
     
  29. Yaka

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    odd i never knew this, i have a mate who uses the 26" ga3e for pc use, and he says everything looks alright. is there any way to check if it is not 1:1 over dvi?
     
  30. Spangle2k5

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    I own a Sharp LC26GA5E and it does offer 1:1 pixel mapping over the VGA input, but as follows:

    640x480 or 800x600 - scales/stretches image to fill screen

    1024x768 or 1280x720 - offers 1:1 pixel mapping or can scale/stretch image

    It will only offer 1:1 pixel mapping for resolutions with 720 horizontal lines or above, but to be honest a lower resolution would look tiny...

    I have not taken the time to get the PC to output 1366x768 but have no reason to doubt that it would display correctly.
     

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