When Worlds collide: The dedicated living room cinema (Updated May 2020)

Since I'm getting such a great response without my rear subs connected, I decided to try an experiment tonight: I removed the IW28S and used the existing wiring (and the two channels on my iNuke) to run surround backs. I realise the holes are a bit low down, but it was more a proof of concept really.

I couldn't be done with the time and pain of running another Dirac calibration, so I just used my Dirac OFF setting and balanced all the speakers manually using an Atmos test disc and trusty SPL meter. I had to borrow my older M&K K5 (monopole) and K4 (Tripole) from my conservatory system, but I was surprised how well they blended with the much more expensive S150T side surrounds.

Once the levels were matched, there wasn't a huge change in tone as the test (pink?) noise from the disc went from side to rear surround. I suppose our hearing is less sensitive from behind and they are quite close to the MLP, so don't need as much power as my front MPS300 4.5 metres away.

An M&K K5 looking a bit lost in the hole for an IW28S subwoofer:
Surround Back 1.jpg


An M&K K4 Tripole in the other hole:
Surround Back 4.jpg


I listened to the usual Atmos test disc clips, like 'Amaze' and 'Leaf', plus the film clips like Mad Max. I could go into the Arcam menu and switch the surround back speakers on or off and replay the clips for comparison: Some were more obvious (and of course I was paying more attention listening for it), but I think it added a bit of 'space' behind, rather than the sound seeming to sweep through my head ('Leaf' in particular).

The K4 and K5 were pretty much the same level, so I didn't have to keep changing the speaker levels once I'd done the initial set up with the SPL meter. I did make sure I turned off the amp each time I swapped speakers though as I didn't want any nasty accidents. :eek:

I was pleasantly surprised that the monopole K5 seems to work better as a surround back than the Tripole K4. I'm going to have another session tomorrow night just to be sure, but it'll make the eventual speaker purchase easier and cheaper if I can get away with a monopole.

MK Sound have recently announced an in wall version of the S150T Tripole surround speaker, but it's priced around 60% more than the IW85 that uses very similar (if not the same) drivers as the 'front' of my existing on wall S150T side surrounds. So for now the IW85 is looking favourite, given that the much cheaper K5 sounded pretty close in timbre and that was without Dirac too, which should narrow things further.

I might even run with the IW85 behind the existing IW28S grilles that I've sprayed to match the current wallpaper. Then relocate the IW85 each side of the window as seen in this (previously posted) photo, level with the S150T, each side of the blind. That job will have to wait until we redecorate though:
Rear view projector closed.jpg


I also received some small rubber pads I ordered to put under the sofa's feet. These serve two purposes: To stop the sofa sliding on the Oak floor (starting to cause scratches after all my work sanding the flooring). Secondly it helps isolate the sofa from the solid floor, so the new Buttkicker works more effectively, so I can turn it down a few clicks and still have the same effect as it's not trying to shake the concrete house floor beneath. :)

Only about £12 for a box, but looks like I got the last set:
Rubber Base Pads - 10cm x 10cm x 1cm (3.9" x 3.9" x 0.39") - Pack of 24: Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

Close up under the sofa:
Rubber foot.jpg


Will have a try of some more clips tomorrow night before I put the speakers back in the conservatory (the TV sounds horrible out there now!).
 
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I run IW85’s for surround (and atmos) duties and they work great so would recommend picking up a pair. Wouldn’t drop back down to 5 base layers either as the surround backs really add something as you seem to have discovered too!
 
Shame I missed out on a pair of IW85 in the classifieds recently. I wasn't sure where I could fit them at the time and wasn't sure my wife would appreciate me making holes; then she said she would like to change the wallpaper at some point (she was never happy with it). I can make do with using the IW28S space for now though based on tonight's experiment.

I used to run 7.1 in my previous set up, but that was with 4 x M&K K4 Tripoles (since sold one pair). The room was the other way round though and the sofa was over 2 metres from the back wall. Now it's just over 1 metre, so I thought maybe too close to benefit. Plus I'd spent a lot on the MPS300 LCR and extra MP150 for Atmos when I built the room. :)
 
As some might know from the MK speakers thread; I bought a new-in-box IW85 off the classifieds this evening, so now just need to buy one brand new IW85 to match. A useful saving over buying both new too. :)

IMG_3543.JPEG


From the front:
IMG_3549.JPEG


I also found a stash of MDF I'd forgotten about from the living room build. I have a choice of 12mm or 18mm to make a baffle to fill in the space where the IW28S have been. The plan is to make it at an angle so that the IW85 point upwards rather than fire into the back of the sofa. Then add some strong magnets from Amazon to hold the existing IW28S grille in place to hide the mix of MDF and IW85.

Longer term I'll move the IW85 each side of the window reveal, but not until we redecorate sometime early next year (apparently ;) ).

Really looking forward to getting these IW85 installed as I had another listen tonight to various clips and confirmed that going back to 5.1.4 is a noticeable drop in the 'space' of sound around the sofa. A pair of IW85 eq'd by Dirac should be even better than the current K5 and manual set up I've been testing. :)
 
The 6 magnets on the IW85 pictured are detachable. So potentially you could use those.
 
I'll have to test with them hung in place on the wall once I get to that stage. Knowing how lazy I'm getting with DIY they may end up staying down below for a while though. :)

I forgot there is quite a gap above the IW28S hole, so I could eventually raise the IW85 up to just under the windowsill and only have to patch up a bit of plasterboard and my wife can re-wallpaper. ;) That way they would be a little closer than they would each side of the window reveal.
 
Re positioning of rear speakers, you might want to have a listen to this:

 
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Will have a watch of that tomorrow (today?!).

A bit limited with the surround back options though due to the window: Either have them at the same height as the side surrounds, but possibly too far apart. Or bring them closer together, but have them below the window, though could be a little higher than I've been testing with and that worked out well enough.
 
Yes, that's a great video @Ringnut , perhaps I should have spent more time watching that last night than wasting my time discussing speakers elsewhere on this forum. :rolleyes: I'm going to make a start on my baffles today, so will dig out my MDF. I'll have to wait for one of the IW85 to turn up before I can cut the hole for it, but it will be good to get a head start.

I'm having a think about what to do about powering these extra speakers. I'm currently using a mix of a 7 channel Arcam P7, two channels of iNuke NU6000DSP for one pair of heights and the Arcam AVR390 to power the surround back speakers. I bet some people's OCD will be twitching at that mix. :D It's either add a 4 channel amp for the Atmos layer and carry on with the P7 for the base layer, or perhaps use it as an excuse to try something 'better' for the LCR.

I'm going to run out of space in the rack at this rate though. :rotfl:
 
Let the Arcam run the rear surround for now.

After trying various positions for my rear surrounds, this has been the best for me. Small rear towers at 135 degrees give or take.
 

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Let the Arcam run the rear surround for now.

Lovely room Tamas. :)

I am, but at some point I want shuffle things round so that I have one amp for the 2 x Q15 subs instead of the 2 iNuke NU6000DSP amps, the AVR390 can't power surround backs and a pair of heights. It's either/or, so eventually I'll need a power amp for at least one pair of speakers, so I'll get a 4 channel for Atmos to go with the P7. Or maybe a 3/5 channel 'something' for the LCR/surrounds and eventually a 8/6 channel for the surround backs and Atmos channels.

I can't make out the rears in your picture very well, but that's probably my laptop screen being a bit dull and viewing in the shade in the garden. I'm taking a break from making the MDF baffles for the rears: Currently given up on trying to put them in at an angle though as it's just too fiddly and insecure. nearly 2 metres between them and the sofa and I have line of sight with them anyway, so I'm going to be lazy for now. Especially since it's only a short term location and they will probably end up just below the windowsill before long.

Just ordered some magnets from Amazon which can screw to the MDF baffle to hold the IW28S grilles in place:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07L2VL36D/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Better get on with the other side baffle now; photos later. :)

EDIT: Looking at your photo now and I can see the back speaker. It's about the same relative angle as mine is now, though yours is at the proper height, I can't do that for a while though.
 
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A few photos of my afternoon's work with a saw, MDF and my old router. I had to make do with the bit that was already in it, but it seemed to work out OK. Not like anyone will see the hole as the IW85 will cover it and the grille will cover the IW85 and baffle too.

IW85 Baffle 1.jpg


Fitted to the hole, with Rockwool at the ready:

IW85 Baffle 2.jpg


Stuffed with Rockwool and this is the view over from where I sit, just turning my head round to look at the speaker. You can see why I took the lazy option and just fitted it flat to the wall for now. When we redecorate I have the option of moving them so that the bottom of the speaker goes where the top is now, so that might be an easier option than cutting new holes each side of the window reveal. Especially as that might put them slightly too far apart.

IW85 Baffle 3.jpg


Hopefully the one I bought off Harkon321 will arrive tomorrow, so I can get it fitted and check if the MK brochure dimensions are correct. :)
 
Lovely room Tamas. :)


EDIT: Looking at your photo now and I can see the back speaker. It's about the same relative angle as mine is now, though yours is at the proper height, I can't do that for a while though.

Thank you for the compliment.

I have PSB X1T speakers for the rear surrounds. The tweeter is at ear height, and my side surrounds are just behind me at about 95 Deg.

The way the speakers are positioned now really gives separation from the heights. Height and rear surround no longer sound indistinguishable.

And pans from front to back now take on ”movement”, and sounds coming from above sound like they are above me.

I really like your room and what you have achieved.

As always this hobby is a journey, and not a destination.
 
Had a nice parcel waiting for me when I got home today. The IW85 I bought off Harkon321 in the classifieds had already arrived, so I got it fitted and had a quick test with some pink noise (since I had to connect another odd speaker to the other surround back cable so the amp had a load on it). It's a bit more efficient than the M&K K5 so I had to reduce the channel level by 4dB compared to what the K5 was set to. I'll do a full Dirac recalibration once the other IW85 is fitted of course.

Discovered that I need to make a slight modification on the rear left baffle as I've cut some wood too long behind and the speaker bracket won't fit. At least I can sort that while I wait for the other one to arrive from Rich at Seriously Ltd. :)

Fitted upside down to raise the tweeter a bit nearer my ears:
IW85 Baffle 4.jpg


A bonus is that the magnets on the IW85 are strong enough to hold the IW28S grille in place, though I will add the Amazon ones in the corners once they arrive:

IW85 Baffle 5.jpg
 
Thanks @sammy the squid

Next: I'll need to sort out the power amps as I'll be running an odd mix for the time being of the Arcam P7, two channels off the iNuke and two channels off the AVR390. I'm thinking of getting a Nord One MP NC252 4 channel amp which is 250 watts per channel, close enough to my Arcam P7 at 230 watts channel (into 4ohms).

I'll try the Nord on the LCR to see if I can hear any difference compared to the P7. If I do I might swap the P7 for a 7 channel Nord, though that could lead to a slippery slope where I start looking at their higher end 3 channel models to power the LCR, which means I'd need another separate 4 channel MPNCxxx. :D

Ironically I'm not really using the system much at the moment due to work and the nice weather when I am at home. It'll be ready for bad weather or the autumn/winter viewing season though. :)
 
If you get it all sorted now, you will be ready for the movie watching season.
 
Discovered that I need to make a slight modification on the rear left baffle as I've cut some wood too long behind and the speaker bracket won't fit. At least I can sort that while I wait for the other one to arrive from Rich at Seriously Ltd. :)

You can always screw straight into the baffle as opposed to use the mounting brackets, thats how mine are fixed in their housing anyhow
 
Useful to know Beechy06, though it's only a few minutes work to trim the offending piece of wood ready for the second IW85 later this week.

I had to take time out to make our raised pond safe as our 2YO Grand daughter is hopefully able to visit soon and has started to climb. No end to my DIY chores it seems. :)
 
Useful to know Beechy06, though it's only a few minutes work to trim the offending piece of wood ready for the second IW85 later this week.

I had to take time out to make our raised pond safe as our 2YO Grand daughter is hopefully able to visit soon and has started to climb. No end to my DIY chores it seems. :)

Hopefully that second IW85 will turn up soon and you can get everything all calibrated as sounds like you might have your hands full with the lil’en before long then :)
 
The second IW85 is due to arrive today, so I'm hoping for a fairly early finish so I can get back and get it installed and maybe run a fresh Dirac calibration with surround backs configured. :)

I also ordered some rack mount goodies last night, preparing for a bit of a change around. These should arrive later next week, so I can start some shuffling round of equipment:


Plus some smart black mesh grilles of various 1U and 2U sizes:


One of these to tidy up connections the lower power equipment like Harmony hub, Humax PVR:


That should all help to make a bit of space in the main rack for some other equipment to help power the extra surround backs properly, rather than from spare (noisy) channels on the iNukes. :)

More to be revealed next week. ;)
 
Next week. Wait, what....

You can’t do that to us!

Someone please stop the insanity...

It’s looking great, which amp have you decided on...or are you thinking of getting an amp and a new NAD 778?

First thing first, install the other speaker and let us know your thoughts.
 
Plus some smart black mesh grilles of various 1U and 2U sizes:

Damn, wish I knew I needed one of these before today (just had a Thomann order come in...)
 

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