When will a coronavirus vaccine be ready ?

starfarer

Well-known Member
Oxford/Novavax Com - Cov2 mixing vaccine trial

The purpose of this trial is to see how well people’s immune systems respond when their second “boost” dose is a different type of vaccine to their first “prime” dose....

In this study we will be enrolling men and women aged 50 years and over who have already had one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine. We are enrolling from all ethnicities and would particularly welcome participants from the Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic (BAME) community.

For nearest site location scroll down to bottom if interested.
 

krish

Distinguished Member
Surely won’t be the last honour bestowed upon professor Gilbert...


Streamed live on 14 Apr 2021
The 2021 Albert Medal Event

Sarah Gilbert is the scientist who designed the Oxford Vaccine – one of the most significant breakthrough developments in the global fight against coronavirus.

As she receives the 2021 RSA Albert Medal for ‘collaborative innovation for the global common good’, Professor Gilbert joins RSA Chief Executive Matthew Taylor to reflect on an extraordinary year for scientific innovation, and to tell the inside story of what it took to design, trial, and manufacture a safe and effective vaccine at record speed and scale.
 

Sloppy Bob

Distinguished Member
Will it be accepted by the regulator or the EU public as it's using the same mRNA biotech as the others that are under scrutiny for causing blood clots?

Note that I've had my first AZ vaccine and won't hesitate to get my 2nd when it's time.
 

basiltherat

Active Member
Looking more into this, I am getting more convinced the blood clot issues are due to administering the vaccine wrongly, injecting into the bloodstream runs the risk of clotting.
Into a muscle, doesn't.
As we no longer aspirate while injecting, there's a slim chance a vein is hit and the injection enters the blood stream.

But as I've said previously, clotting also happens with Pfizer, but the silence is deafening about that of course, no surprise there that the most expensive and profitable vaccine is getting none of it's problems published, meanwhile the cheapest vaccine being sold at cost price is being investigated and discredited relentlessly despite having around the same number of issues as the others.
Really reeks of politics and money above lives.
 

starfarer

Well-known Member
no..may explain for clots but not low platelets and no recorded incident of blood clots from many years of vaccination with billions dose administered. Countries have different policy and Denmark recommends aspiration. Any particular reason why you believe this is the cause?

I've posted a reply re blood clots on EU threatens vaccine thread with few links that may be helpful to some.
 

Trollslayer

Distinguished Member
To me the bottom line is is the reduction of risk from not being given the vaccine than the risk of blood clots?
We have plenty of data to work with and the choice is clear.
 

starfarer

Well-known Member
sorry my question was to basiltherat about aspirating during jab.

I'm not doubting risk/benefit but if I'm white woman under 30 getting AZ, my anxiety level will be through the roof for couple weeks. Generic symptoms like headache listed under guidance is not very helpful too.
 

basiltherat

Active Member
sorry my question was to basiltherat about aspirating during jab.

I'm not doubting risk/benefit but if I'm white woman under 30 getting AZ, my anxiety level will be through the roof for couple weeks. Generic symptoms like headache listed under guidance is not very helpful too.
My understanding is that both az and j&j use adenovirus type vaccine, this has been used in other vaccines previously also, some of the problems, of which there are papers written about in great detail , and most if which are way above my head, they state their being a known issue going back as far as the 1990s that if a adenovirus injection is made directly into the bloodstream the risk of clotting is increased, it doesn't increase when injected into muscle.

Now if course the chances of a clot are still way lower than they would be if you were left unvaccinated and got covid.

As I say, it's not 100% the issue, but I think it's looking very likely.

On the other hand there's almost the same volume of clots with the Pfizer vaccine, as whatever is causing it, is also present in the Pfizer vaccine also, be it just the risk the vaccine carries or it being administered wrongly, I'm not sure.
 

Marellak

Standard Member
Looking more into this, I am getting more convinced the blood clot issues are due to administering the vaccine wrongly, injecting into the bloodstream runs the risk of clotting.
Into a muscle, doesn't.
As we no longer aspirate while injecting, there's a slim chance a vein is hit and the injection enters the blood stream.

But as I've said previously, clotting also happens with Pfizer, but the silence is deafening about that of course, no surprise there that the most expensive and profitable vaccine is getting none of it's problems published, meanwhile the cheapest vaccine being sold at cost price is being investigated and discredited relentlessly despite having around the same number of issues as the others.
Really reeks of politics and money above lives.
What makes you think that?

The injection site for vaccines is the deltoid muscle in the upper arm where there is little risk of venous puncture, hence there are no NHS recommendations to aspirate into the syringe prior to injection. However, even in the event of accidental blood vessel puncture, yes, there is a theoretical risk of a clot forming but why should that clot travel to the brain to cause the specific type of rare blood clot that has been a feature following the AZ (and similar) vaccine? Also, as has been mentioned, it doesn't explain the drop in platelets. A clot that has formed as a result of an injection would be much more likely to form a localised clot such as a deep vein thrombosis.

Low level of platelets often occurs in severe sepsis which is caused by an overactive immune response. It also occurs in some patients receiving heparin, which is an anticoagulant (so used to treat clots) but a condition called 'HIT' (heparin induced thrombocytopenia) can develop, reasons unclear. Thrombocytes are another name for platelets. Platelets are the blood cells that assist in clotting but having very low levels means you are at greater risk of bleeding so the phenomenon of having clots, with also a higher propensity to bleed, is a very serious condition and not explained by a faulty injection.

As far as I have heard, the clots that have been occurring after Pfizer jabs have been the more common types of clots, such as DVTs or PEs rather than the cerebral venous sinus thrombosis that is of particular concern and normally would occur very rarely.

Some research into the patients who suffered these rare blood clots in Germany and Austria found they had high levels of antibodies to platelet factor 4, the same types of antibodies sometimes reported after treatment with heparin. Why the immune system should react in such a way to a vaccine is not yet explained but this suggests, as most medics have suspected anyway, that it is the immune system response to the vaccine that is causing these clots and certainly not the method of injection.
 

Laureline

Active Member
Looking more into this, I am getting more convinced the blood clot issues are due to administering the vaccine wrongly, injecting into the bloodstream runs the risk of clotting.
Into a muscle, doesn't.
As we no longer aspirate while injecting, there's a slim chance a vein is hit and the injection enters the blood stream.

But as I've said previously, clotting also happens with Pfizer, but the silence is deafening about that of course, no surprise there that the most expensive and profitable vaccine is getting none of it's problems published, meanwhile the cheapest vaccine being sold at cost price is being investigated and discredited relentlessly despite having around the same number of issues as the others.
Really reeks of politics and money above lives.

Though shouldn't there then be more cases ? If it was down to some people administering the vaccine incorrectly you'd expect to see more of them and certainly following vaccinations from a particular centre if not person.

Doesn't the J&J suspension in the US kind of disprove the conspiracy against the low-cost AZ ?
 

LaVieEnRose

Active Member
sorry my question was to basiltherat about aspirating during jab.

I'm not doubting risk/benefit but if I'm white woman under 30 getting AZ, my anxiety level will be through the roof for couple weeks. Generic symptoms like headache listed under guidance is not very helpful too.

Are you saying that race is a factor?
 

starfarer

Well-known Member
There's no breakdown of UK cases but I believe all female EU cases were from native white background.
 

basiltherat

Active Member
What makes you think that?

The injection site for vaccines is the deltoid muscle in the upper arm where there is little risk of venous puncture, hence there are no NHS recommendations to aspirate into the syringe prior to injection. However, even in the event of accidental blood vessel puncture, yes, there is a theoretical risk of a clot forming but why should that clot travel to the brain to cause the specific type of rare blood clot that has been a feature following the AZ (and similar) vaccine? Also, as has been mentioned, it doesn't explain the drop in platelets. A clot that has formed as a result of an injection would be much more likely to form a localised clot such as a deep vein thrombosis.

Low level of platelets often occurs in severe sepsis which is caused by an overactive immune response. It also occurs in some patients receiving heparin, which is an anticoagulant (so used to treat clots) but a condition called 'HIT' (heparin induced thrombocytopenia) can develop, reasons unclear. Thrombocytes are another name for platelets. Platelets are the blood cells that assist in clotting but having very low levels means you are at greater risk of bleeding so the phenomenon of having clots, with also a higher propensity to bleed, is a very serious condition and not explained by a faulty injection.

As far as I have heard, the clots that have been occurring after Pfizer jabs have been the more common types of clots, such as DVTs or PEs rather than the cerebral venous sinus thrombosis that is of particular concern and normally would occur very rarely.

Some research into the patients who suffered these rare blood clots in Germany and Austria found they had high levels of antibodies to platelet factor 4, the same types of antibodies sometimes reported after treatment with heparin. Why the immune system should react in such a way to a vaccine is not yet explained but this suggests, as most medics have suspected anyway, that it is the immune system response to the vaccine that is causing these clots and certainly not the method of injection.
Just found this guy on YouTube, seems quite informative.
I might be on his page all weekend now. Haha.
 

starfarer

Well-known Member
I honestly don't know. I only picked up words from limited data and added them to express my feeling. Not based on facts and not intended for serious thoughts.

Whether genetics/race play part is anyone's guess. There's a huge variation in rate of incidence between UK and EC. Ours with reported cases are 1:250,000 while Norway I think have 1:40,000 rate. EC cases were mostly among females, 6 from J&J in US are all females but here in UK is in 2:1 ratio (female:male). Certain demographic ie females of child bearing age as an example looks to be more affected.

MHRA pointed out that more females received AZ/Oxford than men in UK. Don't know if similar stats around European countries.
 

LaVieEnRose

Active Member
Since the contraceptive pill has always carried a risk of blood clots (which doesn't seem to put many women off using it), that may be an aggravating factor increasing the risk to women from the vaccine.
 

Indiana Jones

Moderator
Just found this guy on YouTube, seems quite informative.
I might be on his page all weekend now. Haha.
Been watching his videos since February last year and they have been very informative.
 

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