When does Retention become Burn

S2000KM

Standard Member
As per the title really :)

I've just got a 42PH9 and have turned the settings to -20 to run her in. I decided to leave the display on all night to build up the hours and I carefully chose a channel with no logo's that was going to show programmes during the night with no logos. The next morning I awoke to find that at some point during the night the Telewest TV Drive had [email protected] its pants and reset itself. Upon doing this it brings up a nice little blue and white logo telling you what its done and that you have to hit 'ok'. This could have been getting dispayed for hours whilst I slept!!

You can't see anything under normal viewing conditions, although I've not watched many dark scenes yet, but when I select a dead input on the receiver to display a black screen the logo outline can be made out (if the room is dark). Is this retention or burn? I've clocked at least 7h of normal viewing without that logo and its still there when you check a black screen in the dark. It bothers me a little that its there but I won't be overly concerned with burn/retention if you can't see it in normal viewing (inc dark films watched with the lights off). However, if this is premanent burn and its happened that easily on a screen with brightness and contrast near as low as they go then I seriously think this issue will affect my enjoyment of the screen as I'll end up being ultra paronoid that I do damage that can be seen in normal viewing.
 

Slugsy01

Well-known Member
As per the title really :)

I've just got a 42PH9 and have turned the settings to -20 to run her in. I decided to leave the display on all night to build up the hours and I carefully chose a channel with no logo's that was going to show programmes during the night with no logos. The next morning I awoke to find that at some point during the night the Telewest TV Drive had [email protected] its pants and reset itself. Upon doing this it brings up a nice little blue and white logo telling you what its done and that you have to hit 'ok'. This could have been getting dispayed for hours whilst I slept!!

You can't see anything under normal viewing conditions, although I've not watched many dark scenes yet, but when I select a dead input on the receiver to display a black screen the logo outline can be made out (if the room is dark). Is this retention or burn? I've clocked at least 7h of normal viewing without that logo and its still there when you check a black screen in the dark. It bothers me a little that its there but I won't be overly concerned with burn/retention if you can't see it in normal viewing (inc dark films watched with the lights off). However, if this is premanent burn and its happened that easily on a screen with brightness and contrast near as low as they go then I seriously think this issue will affect my enjoyment of the screen as I'll end up being ultra paronoid that I do damage that can be seen in normal viewing.
This is what is stopping me from hitting the button on my purchase of a plasma - stories like this!!!
 

S2000KM

Standard Member
I should stress that this is only a problem because I went looking for it and created the conditions required to see it (i.e. all lights off, black screen and peering at it). Overall I'm blown away by how good the panel is and happy with my purchase. I'll be 100% satisfied if someone comes back and says, 'sounds like retention mate; do a,b & c to get rid of it and be careful in the future as prolonged exposure could be permanent' :)
 
D

drac

Guest
I would run it a little longer on the analogue tuner (if it has one) without the aerial attached (snow screen) for at least another night or two which should reduce it and will probably get rid of it all together.

When trying to build up the hours by leaving it on overnight you should also try this method.

As for not buying a plasma for this reason, anyone who purchases one should be aware of the requirement to 'run in' the screen. The OP has just been unlucky in this instance.

My Pioneer 436XDE is approaching 600 hours on lower settings and had Sky News on the other night for over 3 hours with no retention evident (theres a nearly permanent white bar at the bottom apart from during the numerous adverts!)
 

Ian Vinten

Standard Member
I've got a PH9 and thought i'd burned the screen with a few hours of Dead Rising! Like the OP i could only see it with all the lights off and REALLY looking for it but it was there.

However, with a few more hours of normal use it went away so you really shouldn't have a problem. By most accounts these screens are indestructable :)

Have a seach for a thread on here for the pioneer screenwash DVD thing. Invaluable :smashin:
 

S2000KM

Standard Member
So to answer my original question is this just retention and not permanent burn?

What is the technical difference between retention and burn. What actually happens that causes the screen to burn as opposed to just retain for a few hours?
 
D

drac

Guest
You'll know in a couple of days - AFAIK there's a fine line between retention and burn although I'm pretty confident that if you've only logged 7hrs and some of that was with a programme on (you don't know when the error/reboot occured...) that you'll only have retention.

From what I've heard on here, the Panasonic screens are excellent in dealing with/ avoiding retention and burn and that burn is pretty much non existent these days....
 

adrian3221

Novice Member
I should stress that this is only a problem because I went looking for it and created the conditions required to see it (i.e. all lights off, black screen and peering at it). Overall I'm blown away by how good the panel is and happy with my purchase. I'll be 100% satisfied if someone comes back and says, 'sounds like retention mate; do a,b & c to get rid of it and be careful in the future as prolonged exposure could be permanent' :)
I've suffered exactly the same burn/retention problem with my PX60(2 weeks old). It is absolutely impossible to see when watching normal/tv or playing Xbox 360 but on a dead input it is there. You can see an 'EA' logo and an avatar from playing Texas Hold 'Em on 360. Its very weird though, I've been very careful and I normally flick channels every half an hour if theres a channel logo on screen. What is also very weird is that this morning I watched 5 mins of the cricket and then flicked over to the dead input and there was a retained image of the score at the bottom! That would have only been on screen for 10 seconds maybe and yet there it was! I did leave the TV on an untuned analogue channel for an hour to see if that would get rid of it but no luck yet. I suppose the main thing is that it isnt noticeable under normal viewing conditions, I've had my face pressed right up to the screen and theres no sign of it. Its just a bit irritating to know that its there and I havent at all left any images on screen for more than 30 mins. Couple of questions I do have is:

1. If Im watching Sky Sports for 20 mins then flick over during the ad break, would that 3 min break be sufficient to interrupt the burn/retention process?

2. Why does everyone steer clear of using Dynamic mode and is it ok to use Dynamic after the run-in? I am using Cinema mode currently but had a look at Dynamic and I cant get Cinema or Normal mode to look anything like as good!
 

S2000KM

Standard Member
I liken all this to buying a diamond. Most people look to try and get a VS1 diamond so that it is 100% eye-clean. Truthfully though if you could afford it you'd get a flawless just to know there are no inclusions :D
 
I

itsallgood

Guest
I liken all this to buying a diamond. Most people look to try and get a VS1 diamond so that it is 100% eye-clean. Truthfully though if you could afford it you'd get a flawless just to know there are no inclusions :D
:rolleyes: ;) lol er... ok. I get what you mean, but if you get a plasma do you really need to be flicking over to a "non-logo" chanel every 30mins or what?

All the chanels i watch have a logo, and they are on a long time, we somtimes have sky news on for hours, the tv is just left on for the dog.

Will this be a problem? I've read somewhere that panasonic have little problems?


S2000KM -- let me know if it goes mate, i'd like to see this if you have some pics?

Cheers.
 
T

The D

Guest
Hey Folks,

On the subject of screen burn, i've just taken ownership of my 42px600 and after reading these forums for a while, i've become a little worried.
So i gave Panasonic a call and had a nice chat about all things plasma and to cut a long story short, they told me to go ahead and enjoy my new TV but be sensible i.e no bright, static images left onscreen for a long time. He even said there was no real need to for a "running in" period.

I'm still being slightly careful but at the same time, i'm enjoying my new toy as it was meant to be enjoyed.

Time will tell...
 

-Jay-

Banned
So much for folks on here that claim this does not happen on PH9s!

Also see my reply to this thread ...

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=438933

Gussie :)
IMHO They either don't know how to look for the problem or they have a well run in screen ie 100's of hours?

Got 170 on my ph9 running it in just using a full screen dvd no sky or 360 as i have my pwd6 so i'm trying to get 200 hours on it at low settings. white dvd menu retention, candle on the film retention, white light on a ceiling retention, all goe's really fast but why is it getting retention even if that image was only on screen 20-30 seconds?

Dread to think what it would do if i played my 360 on it? will have to make sure i turn all the huds off or just use my pwd6. apart from this issue it is class screen, but if i'm honest i'm not happy about the retention, the only reason i got a ph9 was because my pwd6 never had any problems.
 

chambeaj

Well-known Member
I think its the odd panel that shows problems (luck of the draw - tolernances). At my local electrical store there is a 42PX600 which shows bad signs of image retention. White text on red background for just 5-10 seconds, text disappears, but you can still see an after image on the red background for around another 10 seconds. The 50PX600 next to it did not suffer the same problem at all.
 

astonbilla

Active Member
i had 3 px60s due to dead pixels etc.

The third had ridiculous retention, evident on menus ond dvds etc.

The worst example was at the start of toy story. The disney castle logo appeared and disappeared - but hung around ont he screen for a few seconds!! Goes to show they do seem to differ vastly.
 

gizlaroc

Distinguished Member
I reckon it is more to do with the levels set in the factory in the service menu more than anything, you can get two screens that both say -0 on contrast in the user menu but one is obviously alot brighter than the other, that is why you should run a set up disc from the start, some screens I have played with have needed the contrast set to -12 when you first get them and others have been in the + figures.


Everyone is so worried about using a calibration disc and waiting 200 hours, it is the best thing you can do straight away.
 

-Jay-

Banned
I reckon it is more to do with the levels set in the factory in the service menu more than anything, you can get two screens that both say -0 on contrast in the user menu but one is obviously alot brighter than the other, that is why you should run a set up disc from the start, some screens I have played with have needed the contrast set to -12 when you first get them and others have been in the + figures.


Everyone is so worried about using a calibration disc and waiting 200 hours, it is the best thing you can do straight away.
I stared off with brightness/contrast at -30 sharpness 0 colour 0 and it still did it, now at 175 hours and have -8 -5 colour +2 sharpness +2 and it's looking good at thoses settings now.
 

-Jay-

Banned
How can you be sure about the exact numbers as the bar shows only - / +
Because i have a ph9 panel not a px60/600 we get numbers not bars.
 

Punce

Member
I saw this on a Sony KDL-40W2000 the other day.
Put Shrek DVD on and just before the films begins there's a dark scene that lasts a few seconds, and you could easily see the outline of the last image shown. And that's an LCD not plasma!!
 

Bumtious

Banned
Staggered to hear this.

Thought Panasonics were bullet proof.

Seen the same effect in my local store as has been reported. Thought I was imagining things.

I'd be suprised if it was burn after such a small time, Had my 507 for 3 weeks. Not "running" in just useing "proper" settings from the off. Fell asleep last night and set was on BBC1 freeview, woke up and the tv had turned itself off after 3 hours of inactivity.(no changes made from remote).

Turned tv on and before the pic came on saw press i in the dark part of the screen but when pic came on could not see anything. After 5 mins checked on a non used input and was competely gone.

As suggested here there is propably some setting, maybe a panel voltage setting set too high.

You are obviously not abusing the set I'd get an engineer just to check it out.

Again to me with other Pana problems bring reported that they seem to have a slight and I mean slight quality control issue. These pro panels are designed for static images in boardrooms & airports so retention should not be an issue.
 

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