When did plumbers start to believe that domestic jobs were below them?

Inked

Distinguished Member
It's easy: have no social life for many years, work every day including weekends and bank holidays, and take no vacations. And (you lot may have trouble with this) don't acquire expensive tastes.

Oh, and do your own plumbing if you can.

If doing all that makes a person as bitter as you come across after 20 years of retirement, I’d rather pay the £100/hour and let the plumber deal with the taps while I do something more enjoyable with my time. :rotfl:
 

Xenomorph

Member
I'll be suggesting to my children that they pursue a trade. For too long it's been seen as a 'lesser' option.

Supply and demand at work.

Judging by the £6k quote I just received to erect a fence, I tend to agree. And I think I'm in the wrong profession ;)
 

deleted7796

Standard Member
You haven’t answered the question - how much did you charge? Not how much money you’ve saved/not spent.

Did you charge more than the minimum wage equivalence for the hours you spent on developing your product/time spent selling it?

If you charged more than the minimum wage equivalent then I call

What I didn't isn't comparable. When you develop a product you might sell 10, or 1000, or none. It's risky. And I wasn't selling to ordinary domestic customers with limited means, mainly businesses, and those via intermediaries.

The product did OK because I designed-in the means for people to develop and sell their own add-ons.

Anyway it's not about me: lots of people out there for whom those quotes for that repair might be more than their income for the week.
 

deleted7796

Standard Member
Judging by the £6k quote I just received to erect a fence, I tend to agree. And I think I'm in the wrong profession ;)

In my first house, someone came round to quote me for a new kitchen. He spent a few minutes sketching a simple, L-shaped layout of kitchen units, which cost £7500 - not including redoing the flooring or the walls.

I peered at it for a second then asked, 'Where's the cooker?' Oops! A quick modification to the drawing followed.

I declined the proposal, deciding that £7500 (in 1991 money) was a bit over-the-top for cupboards to house my £50' worth of pots and pans. I later put in my own kitchen (where I first started to develop my plumbing skills) which cost about £300 - with a hob and oven!
 

hippo99

Distinguished Member
What I didn't isn't comparable. When you develop a product you might sell 10, or 1000, or none. It's risky. And I wasn't selling to ordinary domestic customers with limited means, mainly businesses, and those via intermediaries.

The product did OK because I designed-in the means for people to develop and sell their own add-ons.

Anyway it's not about me: lots of people out there for whom those quotes for that repair might be more than their income for the week.
So are plumbers charities then? 🤔
If you’re a plumber you might have 1 job, or 5, or no jobs that day. It’s similarly risky too.

So it’s ok for you to charge a high enough price to retire at 42, but it’s a scandal that a plumber wants to get more than minimum wage?
Ridiculous 🙄

For the products that did sell successfully eg 1,000 - say you worked on the product 10hrs a day for a year.
(10hr x 365days x £9.50)/1000 = £35 is a fair minimum wage value you would approve of.
Did you charge the latter customers a fairer non-rip-off £35 once it was clear it was selling well?
 
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Cevolution

Banned
In my first house, someone came round to quote me for a new kitchen. He spent a few minutes sketching a simple, L-shaped layout of kitchen units, which cost £7500 - not including redoing the flooring or the walls.

I peered at it for a second then asked, 'Where's the cooker?' Oops! A quick modification to the drawing followed.

I declined the proposal, deciding that £7500 (in 1991 money) was a bit over-the-top for cupboards to house my £50' worth of pots and pans. I later put in my own kitchen (where I first started to develop my plumbing skills) which cost about £300 - with a hob and oven!

I can just imagine how poor the quality of your amateur £300 DIY kitchen was now (it definitely wouldn’t meet the industry standards here in Australia, so you certainly would’ve run into issues if and when you tried to sell the property)… I’m sure you were very happy you saved yourself some money and were very proud of your work. Generally when people are proud of their work they take photos, have you got any to share (I am particularly interested in close ups of joints etc)? I’d love to share them with my dad, being a carpenter for 40 years I know he’d get a laugh out of it, and enjoy criticising your work, since you think it’s so easy, and seem to look down on tradesman.

My dad built the first family home in New Zealand before we moved to Australia, which took him 2-2 and a half years in his early to mid 20’s in the 1980s… He had 2 jobs during this period, during the day he did his carpentry/building work for his employer, we only had one car so he would push bike to and from work. After work, he would work on building our home, and would often sleep at the work site. In the morning he would wake up at around 4am, to push bike to an orchard to pick fruit, before starting his regular day job.

A little over a decade ago, dad bought a property for just over au$400000 up the north coast about an hour and a half out of Sydney. In his spare time when he wasn’t working, he spent between 1-2 years travelling to and from Sydney up there to fully renovate it… It was originally intended to be his and his wives new home, where they would settle for the rest of their lives, it was for a couple of years, but they didn’t like some of the neighbours, so they moved again. When they sold it, the people doing the inspection reports for sale said that his work was impeccable. The home was sold quickly for just under 1 million Australian.

After reading your kitchen situation bart7796, I think understand perfectly now, you are one of those type of people that would be such a difficult nightmare customer to every business you deal with, where you’re often thought of as your money not being worth the time, effort and headache… And because nobody likes to be around you, you would definitely have less options when it comes to people being willing to take on your work, so any complaints about your kitchen installer that gave you that quote, likely was a reflection of your own doing, because only crappy tradesman that are desperate for work would want to be hired by you.
 
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deleted7796

Standard Member
I can just imagine how poor the quality of your amateur £300 kitchen was now (it definitely wouldn’t meet the industry standards here in Australia, so you certainly would’ve run into issues if and when you tried to sell the property)… I’m sure you were very happy you saved yourself some money and were very proud of your work. Generally when people are proud of their work they take photos, have you got any to share (I am particularly interested in close ups of joints etc)? I’d love to share them with my dad, being a carpenter for 40 years I know he’d get a laugh out of it, and enjoy criticising your work, since you think it’s so easy, and seem to look down on tradesman.

My dad built the first family home in New Zealand before we moved to Australia, which took him 2-2 and a half years in his early to mid 20’s in the 1980s… He had 2 jobs during this period, during the day he did his carpentry/building work for his employer, we only had one car so he would push bike to and from work. After work, he would work on building our home, and would often sleep at the work site. In the morning he would wake up at around 4am, to push bike to an orchard to pick fruit, before starting his regular day job.

A little over a decade ago, dad bought a property for just over au$400000 up the north coast about an hour and a half out of Sydney. In his spare time when he wasn’t working, he spent between 1-2 years travelling to and from Sydney up there to fully renovate it… It was originally intended to be his and his wives new home, it was for a couple of years, but they didn’t like some of the neighbours, so they moved again. When they sold it, the people doing the inspection reports for sale said that his work was impeccable. The home was sold for just under 1 million Australian.

After reading your kitchen situation bart7796, I think understand perfectly now, you are one of those type of people that would be such a difficult nightmare customer to every business you deal with, where you’re often thought of as your money not being worth the time, effort and headache… And because nobody likes to be around you, you would definitely have less options when it comes to people being willing to take on your work, so any complaints about your kitchen installer that gave you that quote, likely was a reflection of your own doing, because in a lot crappy tradesman that are desperate for work would want to be hired by you.

More insults. I hadn't realised I'd made so many posts, but it seems many of them were defending my position. I'd delete the lot and get the hell out, but apparently this forum has no way of deleting posts, or my account.

Yours is a case in point: I related an account of someone trying to rip me off to the tune of near £20,000 in today's money, for some 'dream' kitchen they'd sketched in 5 minutes and couldn't get right, but hey it was my really my fault, I was being too cheap!

So, tell me, what exactly does it take for even YOU to admit something costs too much or that you're being taken for a ride? That stupid kitchen with no cooker would have cost me about 8 months' salary; you think I should have gone for it? You're crazy!

As for the kitchen I made, it was a kitchen ***. It worked fine. You should have seen what there was before. I really have no time for 'luxury' kitchens and bathrooms which only exist for people with too much money. (Like, 3"-thick granite worktops, as nothing else will do for cutting bread!)
 

Cevolution

Banned
More insults. I hadn't realised I'd made so many posts, but it seems many of them were defending my position. I'd delete the lot and get the hell out, but apparently this forum has no way of deleting posts, or my account.

Yours is a case in point: I related an account of someone trying to rip me off to the tune of near £20,000 in today's money, for some 'dream' kitchen they'd sketched in 5 minutes and couldn't get right, but hey it was my really my fault, I was being too cheap!

So, tell me, what exactly does it take for even YOU to admit something costs too much or that you're being taken for a ride? That stupid kitchen with no cooker would have cost me about 8 months' salary; you think I should have gone for it? You're crazy!

As for the kitchen I made, it was a kitchen ***. It worked fine. You should have seen what there was before. I really have no time for 'luxury' kitchens and bathrooms which only exist for people with too much money. (Like, 3"-thick granite worktops, as nothing else will do for cutting bread!)

You entire argument is just completely F’ing stupid… You have taken it in direction where what is now being argued is quality of life. Sure, you maybe extremely frugal in your life, and have the opinion that you only need the bare minimum of necessities, that’s your choice if you want to live that way, however, many other people want more than this… It’s not your place or right to tell the population that they don’t need something that you think is a waste, and that they should be living be your standards. Nor should the world have to adjust to your way of life, which includes dropping the prices of goods and services to appease you or people like you, that may also be on a low income.

Nowhere have I said that there aren’t situations where customers are ripped off, and that blatant overcharging doesn’t occur with some businesses, of course it does, however this topic isn’t about how often this happens in every day life in general (customers commit fraud and rip off businesses everyday too)… What I have said is, that when it comes to this actual thread topic and the OP’s particular situation, that what you think is a fair and reasonable charge is inaccurate, it’s too low (I have given my informed opinion on what’s a reasonable price to charge for a job like the OP’s if it’s as simple as they say)… And this has been backed up by others who are plumbers and tradesman. You continue to reject this, you think it’s not, fair enough, but where does that leave us? Instead of just saying we will have to agree to disagree, you keeping arguing back, ignoring what has been said to you by professionals that work in the industry (and essentially accusing them of being dishonest and ripping people off), when you are not a professional plumber or tradesman and therefore can’t back up your claims, while also throwing your life ideologies back as though they are some how relevant and are valid arguments, when they are not at all.

Reason for editing: Corrected a spelling error.
 
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Wahreo

Distinguished Member
One thing that hasn’t been discussed is compassion.

A lady like @Westindieman Mum is far more likely to be charged a token £20 for her Taps to be repaired whereas a know it all customer that tries to dictate how much they should pay would get charged full whack.

A nice gesture towards an old Lady will not only help the person out but old people tell all of their friends how wonderful you are so the potential for more work is increased.
 

Wahreo

Distinguished Member
More insults. I hadn't realised I'd made so many posts, but it seems many of them were defending my position. I'd delete the lot and get the hell out, but apparently this forum has no way of deleting posts, or my account.

This now speaks volumes about your argument on this thread.

‘I’m going to take my ball and go home’
 

ufo550

Distinguished Member
I guess I was trying to illustrate that the reason a plumber can charge £100 an hour is because people will pay it.

However, most people baulk at being charged £50 an hour to benefit their mental and psychological well-being.

People's taps are more important to them than their minds.
We can all give examples fees & charges. For example, my Chiropractor charges £50 an hour. He doubtless spent many years qualifying and then probably had to be accepted into a practise, unlike a plumber.

Ohh, forgot to mention, I have to drive to him, he's not local, but very good. He doesn't deduct that from his fee. And, before he starts my treatment, we have a chat for a few mins about my symptoms, then the treatment starts, which typically lasts 15 mins max. I don't get a deduction, for part of the hour. But I go back time after time.
 

Cevolution

Banned
I don’t see the point in living frugally to save practically every cent that you can so that you can retire when you are middle age at 42, if for the next 40 years you’re going to continue being a penny-pincher, and live with the bare minimum necessities and essentials…
 
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Mainly Lurking

Distinguished Member
One thing that hasn’t been discussed is compassion.

A lady like @Westindieman Mum is far more likely to be charged a token £20 for her Taps to be repaired whereas a know it all customer that tries to dictate how much they should pay would get charged full whack.

A nice gesture towards an old Lady will not only help the person out but old people tell all of their friends how wonderful you are so the potential for more work is increased.
my OH has done many a little job for "a cup of tea and slice of cake" for an eldery customer IF they are nice of course
 

leamspaceman

Distinguished Member
We can all give examples fees & charges. For example, my Chiropractor charges £50 an hour. He doubtless spent many years qualifying and then probably had to be accepted into a practise, unlike a plumber.

Ohh, forgot to mention, I have to drive to him, he's not local, but very good. He doesn't deduct that from his fee. And, before he starts my treatment, we have a chat for a few mins about my symptoms, then the treatment starts, which typically lasts 15 mins max. I don't get a deduction, for part of the hour. But I go back time after time.
How you get to him isn't his concern. The treatment starts as soon as you are in the treatment room with him.

The 'chat' you have is part of the treatment.

It's fantastic that you're prepared to pay £50 an hour for something that benefits your health. You obviously put your health very high up in your list of priorities.

The point I was trying to make is that people will willingly pay a plumber £100 an hour, but baulk at paying £50 an hour for something that benefits their mental health, or in your case, your neuromusculoskeletal system.

The point I was trying to make is where people place value.
 

rustybin

Distinguished Member
How you get to him isn't his concern. The treatment starts as soon as you are in the treatment room with him.

The 'chat' you have is part of the treatment.

It's fantastic that you're prepared to pay £50 an hour for something that benefits your health. You obviously put your health very high up in your list of priorities.

The point I was trying to make is that people will willingly pay a plumber £100 an hour, but baulk at paying £50 an hour for something that benefits their mental health, or in your case, your neuromusculoskeletal system.

The point I was trying to make is where people place value.
I'm not sure I get the comparison.

If someone has leaky taps they'll pay for a plumber. If someone has a bad back they'll pay for a Chiropractor. If someone is struggling with their mental health they might spend money to sort that out.

It's not a 'one or the other' situation is it? And if someone doesn't have any money, at least the state will support with their mental health. Theoretically at least.
 

ufo550

Distinguished Member
How you get to him isn't his concern. The treatment starts as soon as you are in the treatment room with him.

The 'chat' you have is part of the treatment.

It's fantastic that you're prepared to pay £50 an hour for something that benefits your health. You obviously put your health very high up in your list of priorities.

The point I was trying to make is that people will willingly pay a plumber £100 an hour, but baulk at paying £50 an hour for something that benefits their mental health, or in your case, your neuromusculoskeletal system.

The point I was trying to make is where people place value.
My point is, I pay him £50 for twenty minutes. Wonder how much I’d pay him for a home visit?
 

Xenomorph

Member
I don’t see the point in living frugally to save practically every cent that you can so that you can retire when you are middle age at 42, if for the next 40 years you’re going to continue being a penny-pincher, and live with the bare minimum necessities and essentials…

I agree with that, but we don't really know his circumstances. I mean someone with that level of frugality, and given a high enough income, may have assets worth a huge amount.
He may have other problems though, like hitting the lifetime pension allowance, and being hammered with tax.
 

Inked

Distinguished Member
More insults. I hadn't realised I'd made so many posts, but it seems many of them were defending my position. I'd delete the lot and get the hell out, but apparently this forum has no way of deleting posts, or my account.

I could point you to the exact part of the forum where you’d be able to request account deletion if you’d like?
I charge £100 an hour for my time though with a minimum charge of £100
 

leamspaceman

Distinguished Member
I'm not sure I get the comparison.

If someone has leaky taps they'll pay for a plumber. If someone has a bad back they'll pay for a Chiropractor. If someone is struggling with their mental health they might spend money to sort that out.

It's not a 'one or the other' situation is it? And if someone doesn't have any money, at least the state will support with their mental health. Theoretically at least.
I was caught up in the £100 an hour v £50 an hour thing. I'm aware that this isn't always the case. Some therapists charge less also.

We all need our taps fixing if they're broken. We all need our minds fixing if they're broken.

But again I assert that many people will accept paying £100 an hour for a plumber but baulk at paying £50 an hour for a psychotherapist.

We put leaking taps above mental health.
 

rustybin

Distinguished Member
I was caught up in the £100 an hour v £50 an hour thing. I'm aware that this isn't always the case. Some therapists charge less also.

We all need our taps fixing if they're broken. We all need our minds fixing if they're broken.

But again I assert that many people will accept paying £100 an hour for a plumber but baulk at paying £50 an hour for a psychotherapist.

We put leaking taps above mental health.
I'm not sure who has said that.
 

its_all_Greek

Distinguished Member
But again I assert that many people will accept paying £100 an hour for a plumber but baulk at paying £50 an hour for a psychotherapist.

We put leaking taps above mental health.

Not a fair comparison, a leaking tap fixed for £100, Assisting someone with their mental Health is a piece of string that will quickly accumulate well beyond the £100 spent on a tap.

Theres also the fact most people will recognise they can't fix a tap, lots of people still don't recognise they have an issue with their mental health.
 

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