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whats the best? tivo or pace recorders ?

Discussion in 'Digital TV & Video Players & Recorders' started by jjcool, Oct 4, 2003.

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  1. jjcool

    jjcool
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    im thinking of buying either a tivo or a Pace Twin ,
    so im hopeing someone can answer my questions,


    1, whats the best out of these 2, tivo or a Pace Twin ??

    2, is the pace twin worth the money??

    3, heard alot of people haveing trouble with there pace twins,
    so im thinking of the tivo as its cheaper and more reliable, but llike the look of the pace twin and built in freeview, so im confused on which one to choose?


    hopeing someone can comment


    thankyou
     
  2. MarkE19

    MarkE19
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    TiVo was the origional and IMO the best of any PVR.
    The quality of a TiVo recording may be slightly lower than the Pace Twin, but this is VERY slight and the software is FAR, FAR better than the Twin. You get several weeks EPG, can set it to record a whole series of a programme even if it changes time, day or channel. All recordings are listed by their name so are easy to find.
    You need (to get full functionality) to pay £10 month subscription (or £200 one off) for the TiVo. You can just use TiVo as a dumb digital video recorder without the sub, but will be missing large amounts of what the TiVo can do.
    When TiVo was first released it also had problems with the software not being as good as it is now. The Twin has had many software upgrades and many of the problems have now been fixed.
    With the 2 built in DTT tuners the Twin does not really work out that expensive as a single DTT box costs around £100.

    IMO the TiVO is unbeatable and I would not be without it. It really depends on if you just want a digital recorder or the full functions of a TiVo.

    Mark.
     
  3. jjcool

    jjcool
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    thanks mark for the advice friend i appretiate it ;)

    the tivo is ok as its a bit cheaper than the pace twin, around £150 to £200 for a second hand basic unit, also a bigger hardrive,
    however i dont like the subscription fees etc.

    i like the pace twin as the pace twin has no subscription fees, also freeview is built in and the twin tuners, but let down by the 20 gig hardrive,
    ive seen one for £260

    i dont alot about tivo or the twin but think they are almost idential in features, however the twin is a far bit more expenve than the tivo, so is it worth paying the far bit extra for it im not sure?

    as this will be my first tv recorder, and planning on keeping for a few years its a hard choice indeed in what one i should go for?
     
  4. MarkE19

    MarkE19
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    The features of TiVo & the Twin are not similar.
    The Twin only has a limited EPG. No Season Pass recording. No programme ratings (thumbs up/down). No auto recording of programmes you might like.
    TiVo can do all of the above and much more. The software is so advanced compared to any other PVR (including Sky+ :devil: ).
    TiVo will also give you all that you get from the Twin (excluding the DTT tuners) without the sub.

    Mark.

    ps, do you get the idea that I like TiVo :D
     
  5. MartinImber

    MartinImber
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    The Twin is a bitstream recorder and the quality is excellent
     
  6. gringottsdirect

    gringottsdirect
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    Buy a Tivo and use it with a Freeview box, you don't have to pay a subscription unless you want to. :cool:
    Pace 20gb is too little, cynical penny pinching, they knew intended market feedback regarding this and still went ahead, the Twin is a turkey and will deservedly fail.
    You could possibly consider an excellent Pace Skyplus+ , 40gb, £199, no subscription to pay if you already have a £30 Sky package and installed for a £1.
    www.sky.com :)
     
  7. MartinImber

    MartinImber
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    You can fit a bigger drive in a Twin

    Looks like a 3 way holy war starting here!!!
     
  8. MarkE19

    MarkE19
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    Yes you can replace the drive in the Twin, but jjcool origionally was put off buying the Twin because of the price, and this just pushes the price higher. You also need to know your way around the insides of a PC to be able to upgrade the drive. And not everybody does.

    Mark.
     
  9. jjcool

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    thanks guys for the advice ;)

    i already have a philips dvdr 800

    once i have recorded onto the pace hard drive, tv shows etc,
    could i plug my philips dvd reorder into the back of pace and record programs stored on the pace hardrive to my philips recorder?

    this is what i really want to do ?

    anyone have any ideas or suggestions??

    thankyou
     
  10. MarkE19

    MarkE19
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    I don't know for sure on the Twin, but with TiVo if the programme is transmitted with copy protection (Macrovision etc) then it can be recorded ok by TiVo but the copy protection is still in the signal when played back. This would probably stop you recording to a DVD as well as a VCR. I would assume that for legal reasons the Twin would be the same.
    Most TV is not transmitted with copy protection, but IIRC Sky movies often are.

    Mark.
     
  11. blindlemon

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    TiVo - 98% :smashin: :clap:

    I'll give the Twin 1% for direct recording of the digital stream, and 1% for a built-in freeview tuner - but that's about it :(

    IMO it's really not sensible to compare TiVo to ANY simple (dumb) DVR (and I include Sky+ in that category) like the Twin because the TiVo software gives you so much more functionality. Like:-

    1. Season passes (that work, unlike Sky+) - record all episodes of a show, automatically picking up repeats if a first showing conflicts with something at a higher priority. Season passes also lie "dormant" while a show is off air, and automatically kick in again when a new series starts!

    2. Prioritised Season Pass Manager - allows you to say which show should be recorded if a clash occurs. You can prioritise (literally) hundreds of shows with this.

    3. Wishlists. These allow you to setup a class of search - eg. for a particular actor, director, genre (comedy, history etc.), or keyword. Once setup the wishlist automatically finds all programmes that match the criteria you have set, and records them if possible (paying attention to how you have prioritised in the Season Pass Manager).

    4. Full EPG with programme listings up to 20 days in advance (where guide data is published this far in advance, eg. Sky - freeview gives you about 14 days). Select any programme from the EPG for recording.

    5. To-Do List. Shows you what TiVo intends to record - up to 20 days in advance (where TV guide data is published, eg. Sky).

    6. Support for Sky, Sky+, Cable, Analog Terrestrial, Freeview. Almost all new freeview STBs are supported within a few days of release - now including the £50 LODOS box available from Sainsburys.

    7. 4 Recording qualities. Allows you to save disk space by choosing to record certain programmes (selectable at program, season pass or wishlist level) at lower than "Best" quality - eg. cartoons etc.

    8. Hard-Disk upgradeable to 240gb (80 hours, best quality, 300 hours, basic)

    9. Lively user community forums, where all manner of TiVo advice is available.

    10. Big TiVo Hacking community. You can hack your TiVo to add a wireless network card so you can schedule recordings over the web, for instance.

    Cheers - and I hope you make the right decision ;)
     
  12. Messiah

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    Wow. If I didn't already have one I'd certainly want one now. I have to say that I still can't understand why people um and ah about whether to get a TiVo or something else. I have 'sold' many TiVos through recomendation to friends and not one of them has regretted buying it and every single one has siad things like

    How did we live without it?
    Why is it not more popular?
    Why has everyone not got one?
    Why can't you buy them new any more?
    etc, etc

    I do accept that until you use one you just cannot believe how amazing they are. As has been said 1000 times already it is just such a shame it was not marketed correctly. C'est la vie.
     
  13. kwangomango

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    Excellent summary blindlemon:smashin:
    Nothing comes close to the intelligence of the Tivo software. Everyone should have one!
     
  14. MartinImber

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    1% for bit stream recording - I'd give 50% for that alone!

    I never got a Tivo because I didn't want decode encode decode, just wanted something which bit stream recorded
     
  15. Richard46

    Richard46
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    I agree with Martin, having perfect replay PG which the Pace Twin has is important for me. It just depends on your personal priorities, and perhaps the size of your TV.
    However this might just be one of those months when it is worth waiting a few weeks as Humax, and Fusion are both reported to be bringing out new HD recorders. There are even rumours (just rumours) of a new Pace. I was about to get a second Twin for my 2nd TV but am waiting to see what does appear in the next month or so.
    Regards Richard
    PS If space is an issue the Twin is also worth considering. It is tiny, and you get two digital tuners, the Tivo, (which I admit has many advantages) is, well rather large and you still need another box to get just one digital tuner.
     
  16. blindlemon

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    I think it depends whether your priority is PVR functionality or absolute recording quality.

    The only true PVR available (well, sort of available, on eBay!) is TiVo. Other recorders may give marginally better quality recordings if you watch with your face up to the screen but what normal person does that?

    I have a Panasonic 36" (PD30) TV and when watching programmes recorded by TiVo on "Best" quality from my normal viewing position (about 10 feet away) the PQ is excellent. Of course, if you sit a few inches away and watch closely you can see some artefacts - but you get those on any digital stream, so if your source is Freeview, Sky, Sky+ etc. then there will be artefacts already. Admittedly, with Sky+ or the Twin you will only see the "original" artefacts - but they'll still be there.

    On the question of space, I have 2 TiVos, both stood vertically on the floor, behind my TV. There is no front panel display and the IR sensor is very sensitive, so you can put them just about anywhere.

    Overall, I'd say that if all you want to do is get the best possible recordings, for archiving maybe, then possibly a Twin would be a useful addition. However, as a general purpose PVR/DVR the TiVo is streets ahead. And as a pure PVR it rules! :)
     
  17. jjcool

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    well i wanted the twins better recording as i have a 55" tv
     
  18. Richard46

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    Well I'm so jealous, I'm not going to offer you any more advice.
    Any way I've got one 36" Pany CRT and one 30" LG LCD so thats 66 inches if I put them side by side. :p
    Regards Richard
     
  19. jjcool

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  20. phenom2003

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    Pace twin £219.99 here , remember that it cannot record from an external source, but the hard drive can be upgraded using a 2.5'' laptop drive.

    Rich
     
  21. HitmanIP7

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    Do you have to have a subscription to Tivo to use it?
     
  22. MarkE19

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    TiVo will work without a sub, but all you get is a digital VCR with manual timer settings for recording. All the fantastic features of the TiVo software will be lost.

    Mark.
     
  23. blindlemon

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    You can get a TiVo sub for either £10 per month or pay £199 for a "lifetime" sub.

    If you haven't TiVo'd before I'd suggest taking out the monthly sub first - but believe me, once you've lived with it for a month you'll be sold! :smashin:
     
  24. alle v

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    ...TiVo all the way :)

    I don't understand the people that are obsessed with ultimate quality :confused:

    Its all subjective and I'm sure some people just mention it for the sake of it.

    You record the program
    You watch the program
    You delete the program


    Thats how it works for me. If its not DVD quality then who cares :D as mentioned Sky is a crap picture to start with so I'm on to a loser already ;)

    I don't archive off onto a DVD recorder or anything. If its something really good then I'd buy the DVD if it was available.


    Two tuners might be nice but don't forget TiVo people don't watch live TV ;)

    We watch what we want when we want :)
     
  25. CARLOS

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    Having recently acquired a Tivo i can only echo the posts above and say its an amazing piece of equipment, I was very sceptical about how good it was until i started using it but after only a few days i think i would really miss it if i had to go.
     
  26. blindlemon

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    Welcome to the club :) :smashin:
     
  27. MarkE19

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    This is exactly what I have been saying for years.
    TiVo never would have been an easy product to advertise, you just can't explain what it does. You have to see it in action to KNOW that you NEED it!
    Now if the nice people at TiVo had let us be the ones to make the adverts we could have sold the units by the million instead of the so called pros just saying 'You can pause live TV' etc.
    Oh well I suppose all we can do now is pray that the UK will get a TiVo series 2. But I wont hold my breath.

    Mark.
     
  28. Craig B

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    Tivo, not even close.

    To the people who insist on ultimate quality because they have large tv's; I have a 43inch plasma and a projector that will do as many inches as you like. I can see artifacts, solarisation, jaggies and all manner of nasties from a mile away, I think I am unlucky in that respect. It still doesn't matter. Granted the Tivo will always be worse than recording than direct due to the extra processing involved, but digital tv is pretty bad to start off with so there is not that much difference.

    Frankly, comparing a Pace twin with a Tivo is quite laughable, it's like Man Utd v Accrington Stanley. Both football teams but a whole different league.

    I don't mean to offend anybody or appear patronising, it's just that it is virtually impossible to appreciate Tivo fully without actually using one for a while.

    Perfection for me, one of the forthcoming High Def Tivos that record direct from the Satellite stream, shame I don't live in the states...
     
  29. Mikef

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    The idea of a Tive is very appealing...If I wanted Tive to record something from Freeview on timer, would I have to leave it connected to a freeview box that was switched on and tuned to that channel?


    The only thing I can see against Tivo (never having used any sort of PVR) is that 'its another box' - if I wanted Freeview, I'd have to buy another piece of hardware, and I am trying to get rid of as much clutter as I can already (those of you with kids will know what I mean...).

    cheers

    mikef
     
  30. blindlemon

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    No - The TiVo will change the channel on the Freeview box for you :smashin:

    Also, there's not really any concept of a "timer" recording with a TiVo (unless you're daft enough to try to use it without a subscription) as TiVo knows what time and channel every programme is on - up to 14 days ahead with Freeview channels. You just tell TiVo what, or what sort of programmes you like (or what actors, directors, genres or keywords you're interested in!) and the TiVo finds the programmes from the EPG and schedules the recordings automatically :) And if a programme or episode clashes with another you've indicated you would prefer (everything has a priority), TiVo will try to record a repeat showing - even from another channel if it's available. :D:D

    That's what a true PVR is all about. - and TiVo is the only true PVR available in the UK at the present time.

    As the Freeview STB is only used by the TiVo then it doesn't need to be anywhere visible. You can put it in a cupboard or out of sight behind the TV ;)

    Also, a TiVo itself can be stood on its end and hidden pretty well away if necessary as it has no display or buttons and it's IR receiver is very sensitive. Both my TiVos are behind the TV and work fine - even using an IR sender from another room where the relayed IR obviously has to bounce off at least 1 wall ;) :smashin:
     

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