Discussion in 'Movie Forum' started by uncle eric, Mar 20, 2002.
Title says it all.
Looked at the site mentioned. £25 for a DVD-A ,SACD, DTS disk. This is a bit more than £8.99 for a CD from cd-wow.com.
I suppose it is a market size thing and they will come down in price.
Last night on BBC1 news the CEO of EMI was on moaning about the decline in CD sales, due to "internet" and CD copying. I reckon its more to do with cheaper discs online. I for one would prefer the original CD not a burnt one in a grotty case and they are no where near as robust as normal CDs.
Well if you charge £14 to £15 in the high street and £8.99 online most people are going to buy the cheapest. CD-WOW are in Hong Kong I think, so their sales wont reflect on the UK or European sales figures so that will count.
Solution is quite straight forward.
1. Re price CDs in UK and Europe to sensible levels
2. Dont do any fancy copy protection on CD, move to a DVD/SACD format which is currently very difficult to copy due to built in protection and the price of burners.
3. DVD-A and SACD will be a premier product (extra tracks, surround, video) CD a lower end product.
4. Encourage hardware companies to build more multistandard devices.
Record companies and the high street retailers have been ripping us off for years. Now they are going to have to make a bit more of an effort.
The technology is there, they just have to market it in an effective way.
Of course the other reason CD sales are dropping because the music industry has a real talent problem. R&B, Garage? Easy listening disposable pap pop. No wonder no one is buying this stuff.
Whatever happened to good old rock and pop?
Im an old git.
Here here. I agree entirely.
I went into our local HMV shop over christmas and they were playing garage, warehouse or outhouse, whatever.
Anyway, I felt like I was being hit by a hammer. It was the most mind numbing stuff I've ever heard.
I walked out 5 minutes later with a headache.
Interested to see the views on this as I am a music fan first, then a HC fan. I totally agree with what has been said so far. I see that EMI are getting rid of 1800 staff worldwide. And their EO is complaining - there's a suprise. Maybe he will go and have a word with the people he employs to discover new talent. Cos all they have been doing for the last 5 years or so has been putting together boy bands, girl bands, and boy/girl bands who usually are bereft of talent and who have songs that all sound the same. I feel sorry for all those talented singer/songwriters and musicians out there who can't make a penny and who are being ignored by the music industry. Surely they must have known that they would be found out eventually - all those 11 year olds grow up you know and then discover that what they were listening to was rubbish. We always hear that the 25-34 year olds are the ones with the disposable income, yet practically all the music channels are filled with nonsense that is aimed at wiggers (no offence meant) and 11 year olds. And don't even get me started on Will, Gareth and that Rik fella. I mean, in this day and age, do we really need another version of 'Unchained Melody' and 'I Will Always Love You'. The best versions have already been done and are out there. And Robbie Williams doing an entire album of Sinatra type songs?? Sinatra singing them himself is unbelievable so why do we need Robbie Williams singing them. And what I don't understand about the music buying public is that if you had played 'Something Stupid' by Frank and Nancy Sinatra on the radio 2 years ago the same people who are buying it now in their thousands would have turned it off.
As for the cheap cds on the internet damaging record companies - I think you have got this wrong. Surely if you buy a CD for £8.99 from Cd-Wow (and I have done quite a few times), the CD still has to be bought origianlly from the record company, so their sales will be on the up. I had a walk around my local Virgin yesterday and frankly I still cannot believe the price of CDs. There are plenty of CDs included in '2 for £22' type deals but £11 is still expensive. And you can always bet that the CD you are looking for is not included. I had a look around the rest of the shelves and noticed that some older CDs are on sale for £15.99 !!! My God, what are they at. Who in their right mind would pay this for a single CD? My belief is that is the record company has made millions from a very famous CD/record over the years then it should be competitively priced NOW. Not the same price it was 10 years ago. If they are going to charge these sort of prices then I just wish they would stop crying about internet sales putting them out of business. Sell them for less then !!
As for the price of SACD, DVD-A software - I have just noticed this recently as I have just bought the Sony DAV-S500 home cinema system that has a SACD player and want to get some SACD titles to check the difference out. The price is high as you say due to the quantities being sold, but they are high!! The problem is also that the technology is not backward compatible so if they started produing music on SACD then 99.9% of the worlds CD players would not play them. Unless they develop a hybrid disc in the near future which would be a big help. For the length of time that SACD has been out I am disappointed about the selection of titles available. In fact, I am struggling to find a disc that I genuinely like myself. It looks like it might be Thriller.
I also agree with the statement about owning original CDs over burnt CDRs. The only CDRs that I own tend to be ones that are made up of individual songs that I had to get off the Net in mp3 format because I could not get hold of the songs on CD anywhere. And when I do burn them and take them home I have generally found that approx 25%-30% of them sound poor when used on a good system. They might sound OK on a computer speaker but I'd rather buy them on original CD if possible. Not easy if you're looking for an obscure track from 1981!!
Anyway, enough ranting. Look forward to hearing other views.
What about DTS CD's do you need a special player for these or will they play in DVD players ?
I'm interested as want to get The Eagles - Hell Freezes Over
as its apparently awesome and a must have.
http://www.dc-dvd.net/index.php?action=details&item=Eagles: Hell Freezes Over (DTS Compact Disc)
DVD-A looks reasonable here Eric DC-DVD
JSW, if your DVD player or amp has a DTS decoder the DTS audio discs should play. I think this was the idea of DTS audio discs so they were backwardly compatible.
SOK, the point I tried to make re CD-WOW was that most companies are arranged in to geographical zones so we would be in Europe Middle East and Africa (EMEA) and Hong Kong would be in Asia Pacific (AP). EMI I expect will view EMEA numbers seperately from AP sales numbers.
Also showing my ignorance I thought the USP for SACD was that they would work on most CD players. Am I wrong?
Otherwise I agree fully with your points.
I could not find any site on the web cheaper for DVD audios than
selection is poor though.
re ezydvd - yes the selection is poor - this is because not all
dvd-a titles have a distributor in Oz (Metallica for example) Another good Oz site for dvd-a is www.devoted.com.au but the same applies to their selection although they are even cheaper than ezydvd ...
Check out www.absound.ca - search under CD for dvd-a must be a canadian thing!)
and www.dv-depot.com who I see are advertising the new Alanis Morrisette "Under Rug Swept" due out on 2nd April (nice to see a new release coming out straight away on dvd-a btw)
Both the above sites sell dvd-a for about £15 & postage
hope that helps ... Paul
They're based in Canada, but the postage is next to nothing, the discs reasonably priced, there's a fairly large selection and I don't think there are any customs/duty charges on orders from Commonwealth countries (I've not paid anything yet).
Stuart M. Robinson
SMR Group - http://www.smr-group.co.uk/
Interesting to hear about not getting charged tax when buying from Canada - can anyone verify if this is true? I used to order from absound in Canada but always keep my max order to 2 DVDs to avoid getting caught by customs - was I wasting my time all along??
As for the SACD/DTS thing - now that I have my DAV-S500, what are the must have DVDs/CDs? I realise that it will ultimately come down to personal taste when music is concerned but about to order the new SACD version of Simple Minds Greatest Hits from Amazon (released today) - probably in my Top3 favourite bands.
Rog, every non-Sony title I've seen so far is a hybrid SACD/CD disc. Sony is a more than a little bit daft, me thinks! I'm concentrating my collecting on non-Sony discs.
Eric, I get many of my SACD's from:
I don't know if they'd be good for you to order from, but I like them. I buy my audiophile label stuff here.
Vivino Brothers - BLUES BAND < multi-channel blues, funk & jazz
Mighty Sam McClain - SOUL SURVIOR < excellent blues and R & B
Manfredo Fest - JUST JOBIM < intrumental versions of Jobim's songs. Bass, drums, and Manfredo's piano leading the way.
Jacintha - LUSH LFE & AUTUMN LEAVES What a jazz singer!!!!
Junior Wells - COME ON IN THIS HOUSE < down and dirty blues and R & B. There's a whole lot of slide guitar here. < multi-channel
BluesQuest (sampler) < AudioQuest Music # AQ-SACD1052 < nice blues sampler, Doug MacLeod, Terry Evans, Joe Beard, Sam McClain and more.
Claire Martin - TAKE MY HEART <intresting British song stylist. Is she well know to you? Covers songs by E. Costello, Beatles, Nick Drake, Dan Hicks and others. Is on the Linn label, # AKD 137.
These are some great albums. I just ordered Laura Nyro's last album, now on SACD, and I expect it tomorrow. I can hardly wait! These are titles I think are worth the extra bucks and they are hybrids too. I love these multi-channel hybrids because they play 3 ways, 5.1, stereo, and CD and that's how a proper SACD should do! Well, stereo/CD ain't half bad either. Best wishes guyz!
I don't believe that'll happen if they can help it. The record companys said CD's would come down in price, but they didn't.
Then they said that they were more expensive over here because we don't have the same economy of scale that the states have.
Well if I can buy a SINGLE cd and ship it INDIVIDUALLY over to my house from the states and still be cheaper than the shops then the enonomys of scale arguments don't hold water.
The bottom line is that we have been ripped off for many years and the companys have become fat and inefficient. Now the internet has given us an option of either buying from overseas or mp3 then punters have voted with their wallets and the shops are begining to feel it.
Having said all that, I don't believe the new audio formats can survive unless they become mass market and to do that they MUST drop in price to match CDs at the very least. That way everyone gets a benefit, the users get better/multichannel audio and the record companys get copy protection.
Phew, I feel better after that rant
Neil top rant. I actually think you have a good point. Cd's didnt come down in price in the main stream. I remeber gettting my first CD player as a student (My mother went mad) it was pricey and so were the disks.
I could not believe it when I saw it, but Amazon.co.uk are selling DVD-Audio discs for £8.99 (some trashy classicals) and £15.99 (Nat Merchant amongst others). I've bought the Nat Merchant dvd-a after hearing it at Bristol in the Denon demo, it's very good.
They also have reviews online.
Whaattt. Best price for UK based people so far is 18-19 pounds from DC-DVD for DVD-A.
The best price around is Stuart Robinsons tip HMV canada which works out to 13-14 pounds plus postage.
I'll take a look at Amazon now.
With the quality of music available on these new formats they should be giving the discs away!
£18 for the opportunity to be surrounded by limp wristed jazz guitarists or Scottish pub singers!
And the DTS Eagles CD is only of use if your stereo playback is sh...!
As I generally prefer to listen to music that involves me and occasionally experiment with new and exiting bands, yes they do still exist, I'll stick to CD thankyou!
PUT THE QUALITY OF MUSIC FIRST
airwise, I totally agree with you about it being the music first. As I have just bought a Sony s500 system I am now on the lookout for SACD discs but that doesn't mean I will buy discs from artists I don't particularly like just to hear them in SACD. I have seen quite a large number of SACD discs available on the Net (maybe several hundred) but probably only a handful would interest me. I hope that this improves in the future otherwise DVD-A and SACD have no future. I think that it'll be a long long time before I am abandoning my current CD collection (if ever)
I have a Sony 777ES that plays both SACD and CD superbly. I prefer SACD by a huge margin.
At 400 (and rising) titles to choose from. Stick to your crappy CD's.
Are you missing my point? Do you prefer the MUSIC you own on SACD to your favourite CD's?
Agree with airwise again. I have about 300 odd CD albums and only 2 are available on SACD (Simple Minds and Roxy Music - and the Simple Minds one was only released last week). Of the 450-500 SACD discs available I would have no interest in 99% of them and will probably not own that many SACD discs until artists that I already own discs of become available on the new format. I am sure that airwise would join me in not disputing that SACD is far superior in terms of quality to traditional stereo CDs but thats not much use if you don't like any of the discs that are available. I don't believe that there is anyone out there who can say that all their favourite artist(s) music is available on SACD format, because its not. From the lists I have seen, it appears that only Miles Davis is well supported by releases in SACD format - if you want to correct me then please do. The bottom line is - Would you be happy to ditch your ordinary CDs and listen to SACD only, because I don't think that it would be possible for me for many many years (if ever).
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