Whats best for stills, VHS to DVD and sorting footage ?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by Merlin, Jan 29, 2005.

  1. Merlin

    Merlin
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    Strewth !…two days of reading reviews and discovering Pros and Cons that shoot down my options...what a can of worms choosing a DVDR/HDD combo is so it seems :eek: ! Should I forget it, Sony 900 option fading fast now :( but what else, Panasonic perhaps but not sure of that now ref jpeg viewing below. :confused: almost :suicide:

    Just what to do if a researcher and video footage archivist and as someone used to slide shows in the living room now going over to digital SLR camera and use of the TV for showing digital stills!

    Before going over to the video confusion thats my main problem, on stills even jpeg showing now seems confusing, link below says most will show jpeg from CD-R, none DVD-R, Panny E55, E95, E500 ok from DVD-RAM but not CD-R ...really..Pannies no good with jpegs on CD-R ??? but previous line says most ok for CD-R, cant believe Panny not in there. Perhaps then also get a top notch player though cabinet not enough space for three boxes including the cable box...as I now read no DVDR/HDD combo equates to a dedicated player for playback quality. No clever fades then for my new type of slide show...as I read in the link below that ‘DVD-Video slideshows are not currently possible on any DVD recorder.’ do I interpret this correctly, how are serious photographers with Pannys showing their stills in high quality on TV (I cannot afford RGB and not impressed with what I see anyway?

    That and my main worry is this below and boy do I need some help :lease: :-

    I want to at long last record movies and documentaries etc from TV onto DVD at high quality, as close to purchased DVD-VIDEO as one can get.

    I also wish to record WW2 aviation documentaries both from future broadcasts on cable and terrestrial and off my existing large collection of VHS, S-VHS and Betamax tapes onto DVD and dispense with all those thick space hogging cassettes ! I shall then take the DVD and take interesting clips off it using my PC and categorise them , (I dont imagine for one moment that a DVDR/HDD combo can do that...or can it ? ), put all good Spitfire footage together and re-record it onto another DVD in same quality. Note I have Adobe Premiere 6.5 though may upgrade to Pro as it seems Pro has controls over levels (improve darkness, shadow detail etc)

    When capturing the VHS to HDD using the DVDR/HDD combo I would like to keep the ‘meaty’ (no dull segments) programs complete but edit out any commercials and remove ‘padding’ (unnecessary build up waffle e.g. WW1 when the prog is about jets in WW2 !) where it occurs. (A-B editing I understand) so maximising my chance of using high quality recording mode to get each programme onto DVD. When I am doing this, I shall see the footage that I would also like to clone and categorise, i.e. the aforementioned Spitfire and other worthy footage clips.Can I do this…title the collection SpitBits, LancBits etc ?) then write it later also to a DVD ? …it saves playing everything back twice to do so. Is this well beyond what editing on DVDR/HDD combos is capable of ?

    I almost got a Sony HX900 then twigged it cannot split titles and cannot write a movie to two DVDs, or am I wrong in this, CustServices saw no problem but forums are full of this downfall about movie writing to DVD, just who is right , as it sounded a crackin good bit of kit , ‘ it uses a 2 pass encoding system when transferring recordings from HDD to DVDR , ensuring the highest possibility quality is retained. I then read that this machine is not suitable for those wishing to edit their recordings: HDD editing is extremely basic with no ability to split titles. :mad: this is a real downer to me .

    If not possible, instead I take the DVD to my PC and use Premiere to capture to my 50Gb HD the clips I want. This is where I truly need guidance folks !

    I read in the excellent guide to DVDs and Recorders http://www.btinternet.com/~james_lancaster/whichdvd.HTML which links to AVforums for further advice, the following info which has me wondering how I should record my documentaries to DVD so as to either better edit them on the PC if such was not possible on the HDD in the combo, pulling clips from them whilst retaining quality,….. or even removing ads and padding though I should think that’s possible on the HDD to maximise high quality DVD writing.

    This also begs the question, is a PC with Premiere and decent encoding program going to be better than a top model from Panasonic (seems the ONLY choice at present suitable for this) for all this labelling of clips, gathering clips together in a pigeonholing folder storage type of editing ?

    It says, and this I think is an invaluable guide to know :-
    DVD-Video uses a linear file system that doesn't support post recording actions such as editing.
    - A DVD recorder when recording to DVD-RAM will always use VR mode
    - A DVD recorder when recording to DVD-R will always use Video mode
    - A DVD recorder when recording to DVD-RW will record to either Video or VR mode depending which is set before the recording is made.
    - A DVD recorder when recording to DVD+RW or DVD+R will always use Video mode.

    That line that says DVD-Video uses a linear file system that doesn't support post recording actions such as editing …has me worried !

    Now do I need to record in VR mode (would have to be DVD-RAM or DVD-RW) in order to play a DVD on my PC and capture clips off to my HD, and would they be in AVI mode, required by Premiere ?
    Would I be able to capture footage to my HD via Premiere with no loss of quality and as avi from a DVD-VIDEO (written to DVD-R, DVD+R or DVD+RW)
    Can I edit the VR mode directly on DVD-RW so chopping out adverts and padding etc if someone sends me such a disc ?

    Once I have my SpitClips, what format do I write them in to retain the quality of the footage when first captured onto my DVD/HDD combo ?

    DVD-RAM being best archival so the link above says yet it also says ‘ DVD-RAM has little PC usage these days’ so don’t PC editors care about survival of footage ? (I was not aware of it and currently use DVD-R as Fuji said DVD-R 100yrs, DVD+R 30 yrs, but advice in link says think 10% for realistic shelf life, that’s alarming, perhaps my VHS archives will outlast DVD but the hardware wont though !, so DVD-RAM is best ) but can I read that on my PC, is it okay for Premiere, should I/can I write to it my SpitClips.

    Panasonic's currently are DVD-R or DVD-RAM which I am not sure is ok for my PC or is future proof, I read that next models have removed this negative by adding DVD-RW support, but they are not here yet...with my queries then, if I need VR and DVD-RW, Sony900 a dead duck, perhaps I should I wait, please advise ?

    :confused: :confused:

    Merlin
     
  2. SDHoward

    SDHoward
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    Ok this is a toshiba sx32 owner talking.. but wor what you want, it suggest doing stuff on a pc.
    It seems that jpg's, mp3 etc are limited to CD's on most machines. I can watch a jpg slide show (from cd) on the tosh, but its not very exciting, no fades etc. If you want more then you're likely to have to do it on a PC. This would give you the added advantafe in that you could create a DVD video from your still jpg's, maybe even through in a audo comentry etc.

    I use DVD-RAM for back up on my PC's so it is still alive on computers.

    Future proof... nothings really future proof, in 20 years it could all be solid state and you'll have to go to a museum to see a DVD...
     
  3. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    Merlin, your post is longer than my whole website :D

    First and foremost let me put your mind at ease - most decent DVD recorders will do the above with stunning results. Panasonic, Toshiba, Pioneer and Sony are the current 'leaders' but all will do what you want above. They will also do good jobs of recording from VHS, SVHS and Betamax sources - so again you won't really go too far wrong there.

    That's correct - this is a limitation of the Sony. If you record something to the HDD which you want to dub to DVD-R you can trim it (A-B edit to remove advert breaks and extra footage at the start/end) but cannot divide it. This means if you have two programmes recorded in one go then you must either delete one or dub them both to the same DVD-R :( The situation is further compounded by the fact the Sony doesn't have flexible record. This means if you record a 2hr 1min recording onto the HDD you will need to dub it to DVDR in the 3hr mode which is low resolution. So the bottomline is the Sony does have limitations here - if you feel this will impact upon your use then avoid the Sony models.

    If you keep your recordings in VR mode you can use 'Playlists'. These allow you to have several different 'versions' of a single recording, i.e. playback without adverts, playback of interesting bits. This is achieved by inserting 'markers' at relevant points. Panasonic, Toshiba and Pioneer recorders all do this (Sony doesn't allow it on the HDD). The disadvantage is that VR recordings (whether on DVD-RAM or DVD-RW) won't play on many other DVD players.

    Sorry! Basically all it means is once your clips are in DVD-Video format, i.e. VOBs, then further editting isn't really possible. If you keep it in VR file format then your playlist options allow you to do what you want.

    You could - as you say - use a PC to achieve the same. Although you would need a authoring programme that supports seemless branching and your really getting quite complex there. I would try VR mode first and then consider this route. You might want to discuss options with the guys at the Digital Video Forum on this as they are the experts.

    Many PC users don't use optical media for backups: tape drives and removeable HDD are more popular.

    To read DVD-RAM on your PC you may need a new DVD-ROM drive (which is a simple matter to remove your existing one and insert a new one) which will cost around £15. See this Guide for details on that! Alternatively you could use DVD-RW VR mode on Pioneer models - but then you will need a suitable reading programme. As for DVD-RAM being futureproof - well support for the format is increasing - although it's totally different structure means it will never be universally compatible. But then it isn't needed to be so!

    Hopefully I have answered your question!
     

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