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What use DVD-Ram?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by witters, Aug 12, 2003.

  1. witters

    witters
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    After receiving valuable advice from Rasczak on various points I have come to ask:

    What good is a machine such as the Panasonic E50 if you don't have a PC burner or a second standalone unit that plays DVD-Ram?

    If you have the E50 alone how in the world can you edit onto DVD-R?

    Nearly bought one ahead of the HRS2 until the limitation dawned on me.

    :clown:
     
  2. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    There are alot of options (i.e. it's no more [less in fact] restrictive than a VCR):

    1) As you say get a PC Burner and copy to DVD-R. For people without a DVD Burner this can easily and cheaply be done at an Internet Cafe (which, if you supply your own disk, will only cost a couple of quid).

    2) Get a RAM player such as the S35 and S75 then copy to the E50. The compatibility of RAM is low but is increasing - especially with the DVD Council's new push to make it more compatible. And as more people get DVDRs the less of an issue this will be.

    3) Use a DVD-RAM/DV camcorder to act as another DVDR

    4) Use a Tivo or similar device.

    5) Get a second E50

    6) Build an archive of DVD-RAM disks (which are available from as little as £3 each). This has advantages in that, for reliability of data, it is the best format for archiving. My nextdoor neighbour does this - he has an archive of around 100 DVD-RAMs which he can watch on his E30 or on his S75 and makes SVHS/VHS copies for his mates if required.

    7) Just use Pause Record to stop a DVD-R recording stuff you don't want.

    Also it does rather assume that everyone wants the E50 for archiving - which isn't the case. A large number of users just want a timeshifter for which DVD-RAM on the E50 provides a cheap and effective method. They have the option of DVD-R for programmes they want to share. Alternatively some just want to copy VHS or Laserdisc to the E50 (which requires no editting) so are happy to do it straight to DVD-R.

    But the best option by far is the HDD/DVDR combo which is why the HS2 and RX3 have been so successful and is why we are going to see an influx of HDD/DVDR combos. The whole DVDR on it's own is a very limited prospect for TV recording as 4.7GB is frankly not enough. This will be remedied soon enough with the arrival of BluRay (which will give a 23GB canvas).
     
  3. witters

    witters
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    RX3? This is a new one to me. Is this an alternative to the HS2 then?

    I was just about to order the HS2 from Digital Point for £618 when I read that some machines have a problem with recording from the rgb feed. Is this something that is common knowledge or has the poster got it wrong?
     
  4. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    It's the Toshiba model I told you about - a good machine but with no RGB input (or DV input for that matter). I don't know what Toshiba were thinking (although the Tosh users seem quite happy with it judging by their posts).

    The user must have had a fault model or had set it up incorrectly. I only ever record from RGB and the picture looks stunning. Looking at recorded DVD-Rs it is hard to believe they are not commercial purchased.
     
  5. witters

    witters
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    Thanks again for more useful info. I can't really see the point of buying the Tosh with no rgb input.

    £618 is the lowest price for the HS2 I can find and it's in stock. Looks like they have an order coming their way:)
     
  6. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    Neither can I. But that said picture quality is very subjective. Some people prefer the S-Video picture to RGB and, I'm told, in some situations S-Video looks better than RGB. Personally I don't agree but it is down to personnel opinion. And the Toshiba is £100 cheaper than the HS2.

    I paid about £850 for mine! :rolleyes: Worth every penny! :)
     
  7. witters

    witters
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    HS2 now ordered and should be here tomorrow.

    Could you advise on which DVD-R to use please. i.e. what speed, branded/unbranded etc....?
     
  8. calscot

    calscot
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    So £618 for 40GB HS2 and £525 for 60GB RD-SX30 but no RGB.

    Which would you recommend considering price, HDD size and inputs?

    Are there any new models coming out under £550? Are there any coming out with Pal progressive and if so what kind of price?

    Cheers,
    Cal.
     
  9. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    I would recommend the HS2 because I believe that RGB is much better than S-Video and am yet to see different. However see this thread for a full discussion:
    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43445

    Probably not for a while - Toshiba is bring out a new DVDR/HDD combo in the Spring but it is going to be a high end model (with USB connections, EPG etc). The middle market range is still very much seen as standalone DVDRs at the moment. I should imagine this will slowly change as basic HDD/DVDR combos get cheaper - but it will be a while.

    The only current PAL Progressive one on the horizon is the JVC HDD/DVDR combo due next year. I have no doubt this will occupy the upper end of the price range.
     
  10. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    Have a look on the links on this page:
    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90020

    SVP do a trial pack of DVD-Rs so you can try ones that work best. All DVDRs use a variety of drives from a variety of sources so what works in one HS2 might not be so good in another. I suggest getting the trial pack to find what works best for you/find what you prefer.

    At the moment I'm using Panasonic DVD-Rs for high quality archiving (as they have a 90 year guarantee - price around £3 each from Panasonic E-Shop) and use Mirror DVD-Rs for basic throw away disks (about £1 each).

    I know some people use unbranded - I have at times and they have worked - but the vast majority I use are branded. My I suggest you post a reply in the tread listed above as then you'll attract the attention of more Panny/Toshiba users who may not be trudging through these format threads!
     
  11. kenfowler3966

    kenfowler3966
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    The effective difference between a 40gig and 60 gig hard drive is very small. I have never run out of space on my HS2 even though I use XP mode for anything I want to archive to -r, and sp mode for general timeshifting of programs.
    The timer recording page warns you when there will be insufficient space for your recordings, and it is just a matter of keeping on top of it. Transfer archives to permanaent media asap, dub programs you want to watch but not keep across to -ram for later viewing.

    If you think about it you get nearly 8 hours at xp quality on the HS2, ang the larger hdd on the toshiba will only give an extra 4 hours, which is only 2 films. Personally I find that if I haven't had time to watch a recorded program that I will not archive within 3 to 4 days I probably never will. I missed viewing an episode of Jeremia, and archived to -ram to watch later and archived the following episodes as well to view in order. I now have 8 episodes to see and have yet to find time months after the series finished showing. I probably will never find the time until a second series starts showing, if it is ever made!
    I have at least 20 films still in the drawer for later viewing on -r and struggle to find time to see them with all the timeshifted programs to keep on top of.
    If quantity is more important than quality,(which it must be for anyone using a straight dvd recorder to timeshift at lowest quality to get 6 hours of programs), you can always use lp or ep modes to get 70+ hours in hand, but I could not cope with that sort of backlog in viewing. I would think this would only be important for the holiday break, and not wishing to miss favourite programs, however the satelite epg only goes 1 week ahead if the series link doesn't work anyway.
     
  12. chachi

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    Given the difference in price between the HS series and techtronics et al doing E50s for £279 multiregged, why not use that £300-odd quid to upgrade your DVDRom to one of the ~£100 Panasonic SW series DVDRAM/-R/-RW ones, whack a ~250gb HD into your PC, and have a couple of squids left onhand as well?

    (eg. much more functional/transferrable for same cost)

    Did something similar, for the price of the dual format burners many months back when they were upwards of £250 I got a pair of DVD burners (one RAM/-R and one +R/+RW) for £10 less and it makes duping/backing up SO much more brainless going one to the other ...
     
  13. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    This is certainly an option take by quite a few people on these boards. However not everyone is keen on the prospect of Video Editting - plus it requires a reasonably powerful PC. The end result can look very, very professional though (especially if you use animated menus etc).
     
  14. eljeppy

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    Could someone tell me the cheapest/best place to buy DVD-Ram discs?
     
  15. Ged

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    Me too, please, Ged
     
  16. rowbos

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    Bought a load of DVD RAM and DVD-R from svp communications, Mirror DVD Ram was around £2.50 a go I think, and Mirror DVD-R around 50p. Both work well in both my E50 and my PC Panasoic DVD Ram drive.

    www.svpcommunications.com

    Steve.
     
  17. chachi

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  18. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    Types of DVD-RAM disk available are Caddyless 4.7GB disks, Caddied 4.7GB disks and Caddied 9.4GB disks (these are like two 4.7GB disks stuck back to back). Avoid 2.6GB and 5.2GB DVD-RAMs which are not for your machines.

    I should also point out not to buy too many DVD-RAM disks - a RAM disk is for life and will last longer than your machine so just buy as many as you need. If your going to archive on DVD-RAM then obviously you'll need more. :lesson:

    The Panasonic E-Shop has all flavours at fairly reasonable prices. There service is quick and effective:
    http://eshop.panasonic.co.uk/

    DVD And Media offer a wide range of DVD-RAM disks including some baragin Maxwell disks at around £3.75 each:
    http://www.dvd-and-media.com/dvd-ram-media.htm

    Multi-region Magic have some good prices on Blank DVD-RAM media at the moment:
    http://homepages.force9.net/grahamash/magic/indexhome.html
    (Click on the Blank DVD Media tab)

    The 7 Day Shop has Panasonic DVD-RAM disks at good prices (a 5pk at £18 which makes them £3.60 each):
    http://www.7dayshop.com/catalog/def...08&PHPSESSID=49d17bc23b8881805b19820d589d5134

    SVP normally stock Mirror DVD-RAMs but are out of stock at the moment:
    http://www.blankdiscshop.co.uk/

    DVDR Warehouse offers a very fast, very reliable service at a cost:
    http://www.dvdr-warehouse.co.uk/products.asp?pm=1328

    Atlantic 2 U offers DVD-RAM disks (slightly more expensive than Panasonic shop at the moment):
    http://www.atlantic2u.com/store/prodView.asp?idProduct=933&idCategory=269
    and
    http://www.atlantic2u.com/store/prodView.asp?idProduct=585&idCategory=352

    Jet Media does TDK as well as Panasonic disks:
    http://www.jetmedia.co.uk/DVDram.htm

    Hopefully these links are sufficient - other people may be able to offer links to slightly cheaper disks but these offer HQ disks at reasonable prices IMHO.
     
  19. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    They are just out of stock at the moment. They don't have a delivery date for the disks but it will be "soon". Which is a good thing as they are the cheapest by about £1.
     
  20. malcom

    malcom
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    I hope your right. They normally leave the details up and simply say "Out of stock". Several weeks ago they informed me that the Verbatim tubs of 25 discs would be back in stock in just a few days. I think they have gone forever like other items that have been taken off the web page. Any way the reason they are out of stock is probably my fault "I have them all" :D :D
     
  21. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    No it's definitely only "out of stock" at the moment. A friend uses them to archive recordings on - and thus bombarded them with e-mails requesting details. They just don't have a delivery date so have removed them for the time being. That said they do chop and change there suppliers quite frequently by all accounts - although that's second hand because I seem to be the only person on the planet who hadn't heard of this company until a couple of weeks back.
     
  22. malcom

    malcom
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    Well. SVP have Mirror RAM discs back in stock!! But...Not the single sided ones. They are selling double sided in a jewel case and no caddy.

    I personally would not buy double sided caddyless RAM discs. My experience with the single caddyless type has been that even a part of a finger print on the recording surface and the E20/30 won't read the discs until offending mark has been removed.

    I just don't see how it would be possible at some point to avoid finger prints on the upper surface when inserting in machine.
    I hope this doesn't mean that the singles have been abandond.
    The double ones also cost a little more than buying two singles.
     
  23. chachi

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    Can one buy extra type4 caddies someplace ?

    (Not that I would/want any just strikes me as the next natural question)
     
  24. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    Just the caddies on their own - no disk? Needless to say such things are not readily available. However Opticord make DVD-RAM caddies for wholsesale. You might be able to order some direct from them:
    http://www.opticord.com/index.php?p=4
     

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