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what type of scaler

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by hornet, Dec 21, 2004.

  1. hornet

    hornet
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    I have a Panasonic PW6 and I am very happy with it, although I am beginning to seek a little more. I know that I am not yet getting the best out of it and I think I am in need of a scalar?

    I have been looking in to this for some time, and I think that I have figured it out, (not all, but as much as I can take for now :rolleyes: ) but I still need to know a few things?

    Equipment:
    SKY – Digital, via LectroPaq’s RGB to VGA Converter to the panel
    Yamaha DVD, direct to the panel

    Question: both of these Scaler’s, (bellow) have a big-ish price difference, do they perform the same function and if they do is one better at it then the other.
    What I am trying to ask is that is the more expensive one a lot better then the other. I know that you get what you pay for, but is one noticeably better then the other and is it justified?

    What I am after is quality and not quantity, also it will make it easier to get it buy the wife. :nono:

    ZINWELL BRITE VIEW

    ISCAN Ultra/HD which one do I need?
    Thanks
    Regard

    DAV
     
  2. PTG

    PTG
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    Hornet.

    I was in the same position as you with the same panel and went for the HD :thumbsup: over the Ultra see www.dvdo.com this should provide you with the answers depending on your needs.

    PTG
     
  3. loonatic

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    I wouldn't think that the Zinwell would be that much better than the PW6s internal processing...if you can stretch to it then the iScanHD+ or maybe a Lumagen DVI/HDP should be on your shortlist...the Ultra was a good product in its day but is getting a bit long in the tooth now and has pretty limited features.

    The iScanHD+ also has the neat audio delay feature built-in which would solve one problem before it even arose.

    Cheers, Lee
     
  4. PTG

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    Both units Iscan HD & HD+ have audio delay as standard. :smashin: If you are on a bit of a budget get the HD and in the future you could always upgrade the unit to the HD+ If you needed the extra features.

    All the best PTG
     
  5. loonatic

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    What's the price difference between the HD and the HD+ ?

    And how can you upgrade ? I thought DVDO's upgrade scheme was only for the US market.

    Cheers, Lee
     
  6. petrolhead

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    Given the choise and assuming audio is NOT a factor which is the better the Iscan HD/HD+ or the Lumagen DVI?
     
  7. loonatic

    loonatic
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    That's not an easy question to answer...and in some respects depends on what other equipment you have.

    The Lumagen is far more flexible and may just have the edge on PQ but only just...the iScan is easier to configure but once both are set-up they are as easy to use as each other and pretty much can be ignored.

    The HD is also not HDCP compliant which would mean it's not going to be any good for Sky HD etc.

    I think that the HDP and ProHDP are superior to the DVI though, and so they should be given their prices, and have features that the DVI does not.

    I would say the the Lumagen suits those who want to tinker with things more and get every last drop of potential out of their systems and the iScan is more for those who are after a more plug'n'play device.

    Cheers, Lee
     
  8. hornet

    hornet
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    Thanks or all the response guys, very informative, I think I am going to give the ZINWELL BRITE VIEW, a miss unless I get to see one and my eyes like it.

    I do like the sound of the DVDO ISCAN HD (the price sounds right) also the Lumagen vision DVi the price on that sound right too.
    I suppose the Lumagen is the more discrete of the two and from the looks of it only useable via the remote. But the output is only via DVi which leads me to my next question.
    Is the DVi card a viable option or is the ISCAN HD better for me due to the fact that it does not need any additional equipment, well for me any way.
    Will the DVi input make something that is going to make my setup better even better?

    The confusion does not cease :zonked:

    I would like to see one of these or both devices in action, is there anywhere in the Middlesex area?

    Thanks

    Dav.
     
  9. vonhosen

    vonhosen
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    The Vision DVI has the option of having BNC analogue outputs added (& SDI inputs)
     
  10. loonatic

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    I think with the correct cable or adapter you can also output YUV or RGB analog via the Lumagen's DVI output...perhaps Gordon could confirm that.

    I would avoid the DVI blade for the panny as it will not accept the panels native resolution...the 15pin VGA input would be your best option as it will allow native res support at both 50Hz and 60Hz as well as others such as 48Hz, 72Hz and 75Hz.

    Don't know of anywhere in Middx where you could see the Lumagen or the iScan...you might get to see the iScan at AV Sales...Gordon should be able to help as to where you might get to see the Lumagen in action.

    Cheers, Lee
     
  11. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Lumagen DVI has DVI-I output socket. This has RGB or YPrPb output capablility just sing approriate cable or adaptor. If you want to make it easier or don;t like adapters you can have it pre-fitted with 5 BNC's for the analogue output.

    Progressive AV Kent, or PJ HiFi Surrey would be likely candidates for a demo. The dealer in Mddlesex is currently only custom installation so no unit on dem in their shops.

    Gordon
     
  12. hornet

    hornet
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    Thank you, al very much for your info, I sat down and tweaked the picture a bit more yester day (only on sky) made it better but not perfect, still quite good though.

    Looks like it is definitely going to be a Lumagen or ISCAN, but which one?
    I don’t know yet.
    Need to see them and then buy one even though I know that they are both going to do what I want.

    Anyway I am off now and then going on Holliday to Malaysia and wont be back until the 10th of January, who knows I might pick up something from there? :D

    Thanks
    Dav.

    Have a good Christmas and a top News Years
     
  13. Chris5

    Chris5
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    The Lum has 2 DVI inputs, where as IScan only has one. this could be crucial when sky HD comes out, unless dvi switching boxes have come out by then as well
     
  14. loonatic

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    You can get both DVI & HDMI external switches at the moment from companies such as Gefen, Zektor and others...though they are not cheap.

    Cheers, Lee
     
  15. zAndy1

    zAndy1
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    Hope Dav didn't get mixed up in the disaster over there! Safe trip back ok...

    Andy
     
  16. Razor

    Razor
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    I have just recently purchased an Optoma RD65 and can not display a 60 Hz picture without a juddering motion. I have contacted optoma and they have stated that they cannot elliminate this fault and have no ideas around this problem.

    So it looks as though my only choice is to purchase a video scaller/processor. Which processor would you recomend. (the RD65 is a 65' rear pro DLP set, with a DVI/HDMI input).

    Many Thanks
     
  17. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    not true....... HD does DVi (HDCP)pass through not conversion which HD+ does http://www.dvdo.com/faq/faq_ishd_hdcp.html for full differences
    Razor suggest you demo the Lumagen DVi and iscan HD+ with your set
     
  18. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Frame rate conversion of 60Hz sources to 50 Hz will be messy with any scaler, I'd suggest. That's the reason you are seeing such a problem with your DLP based rearpro. It's droppping frames. If your rearpro will accept 48Hz then you would probably get decent results from film source R1 DVD's.

    Gordon
     
  19. Razor

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    Hello Gordon

    Do you think a processor will cure the RD65's short falls? If so which one would you recomend?
     
  20. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    No, I think it unlikely unless you can get it to accept 48Hz signal as you could then get a decent smooth playback of 60Hz film source material. 60Hz video source will still be a mess. I haven't tried looking at R1 DVD played back at 50Hz on a DLP but I imagine it's not pretty.

    Gordon
     
  21. Chris5

    Chris5
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    Razor, I am probably going to get an IScanHD+ later this month (even though Lumagen have 2 DVI inputs), I'll let you know if the Rd50 accepts 48Hz (ps I'm buying it for PAL, if it fixes NTSC then that is just a bonus for me)
     
  22. Razor

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    Oh good Chris, let me know how you get on. I hope it works, so I can then finally sit down and watch my region 1 films. I wonder how much improvement in picture quality the IScan will make?

    Gordon, thank you for your reply, it is most appreciated.

    Could someone tell me how much difference in picture quality a video processor will make on a 65 inch DLP HD2+ rear pro?

    Many thanks
     
  23. Chris5

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    .. or should I go for the Lumagen HDP? :rolleyes:

    I can't make up my mind. As far as I can tell from other posts, I believe the IscanHD+ is currently better for PAL (most important for me) and has an LCD so that you can see what you are doing when you have messed up the scan mode and is £300 less than Lum at £900 instead of £1200ish

    But the Lum has 2 DVI input that will become important when Sky HD comes along next year.

    also frc from 60hz to 50hz/48hz is a consideration

    Any thoughts anyone?
     
  24. petrolhead

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    I am also in a similar boat. Iscan HD+ or Lumagen HDI

    The Lumagens advantage is it will upscale to 1080p the ican only does 1080i. Now although my PJ anly currentl does 720p I am sure that when its time to replace the PJ, PJs will be outputting a resolution 1080 hence my sway to Lumagen.

    BUT

    I am seeing comments about Lumagen and oftware bugs.
    "The Lumagen is out of BETA release but still not 100% satisfactory on PAL deinterlacing. However for now it still suffers bugs so will be a pain in the backside for a couple of months. The iScan quite simply doesn't suffer any of these bugs as it is a complete product, and a second revision of a complete product at that"

    Are these bugs a real issue and is the PAL deinterlasing somit to worry about as one of the reasson for a sca;ller is to improve Freeview. I also tend to output Pal from my HK25 DVD player

    Its one hell of a confusion area of AV and am finding it hard to get me head around
     
  25. loonatic

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    A recent firmware upgrade made a big difference to the PAL deinterlacing issues and I am sure they will improve further with future upgrades…it’s just that they concentrated on NTSC to start with…I think the same was true of the previous Vision range.

    I think the move from beta status to production status is more of a marketing type thing and to signify the end of the previous models, as it will never really be finished in terms of firmware upgrades until they start work on its successor.

    The Lumagen is also more flexible and configurable than the iScan so if you want to connect both a PJ and a plasma for example, like I do, then the Lumagen can be configured for that...it can also auto switch for 50Hz and 60Hz sources...not sure if the iScan can.

    Cheers, Lee
     
  26. KraGorn

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    Are these devices upgradeable by the User or do you have to send them back for firmware updates? If they're User-doable can someone say how you do it?
     
  27. vonhosen

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    In the case of the Lumagen you do it yourself. You connect to serial port on PC with supplied cable , download update file , double click on it & it does all the work.
     
  28. KraGorn

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    Ah, um, I don't have a serial port configured on any of the PCs I have .. haven't used a modem in 4 years.

    Hmmmm.

    Cheers.
     
  29. loonatic

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    You could get a USB to serial adapter if you have not got a spare serial port.

    Cheers, Lee
     
  30. Chris5

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    Thanks for you comments, keep them coming :smashin:
    It seems to me that the IScanHD+ is currently better for PAL, but the Lumagen may be better in the long run.

    I think I would not hesitate and buy the IScan now if it had 2 Dvi inputs like the Lumagen
     

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