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What type of PJ in my local Cinema?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Wild Rumpus, Jul 4, 2005.

  1. Wild Rumpus

    Wild Rumpus
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    I went to see "War of the Worlds" at the weekend in my local cinema (Showcase at the Phoenix Centre, Paisley). I have noticed picture problems there before - but with my recent auditioning of video equipment I feel that I have become much more analytical about what I am viewing. I would have expected a "proper" cimema to use film projectors, but given that anything that is moving in the film looks blurred (with the whole picture blurring during pan shots) I would guess that the projection system is electronic.
    The picture (and sound) were both worse than I have seen (and heard) on any half-decent home cimema set up.
    What type of PJ's do most cinemas use nowadays?
     
  2. cyberheater

    cyberheater
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    I've been to that Showcase at the Phoenix Centre, Paisley and have vowed never to got there again. I was truly shocked how bad the image looked there.

    To answer your question. It's going to be a normal film projector.
     
  3. HSC

    HSC
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    couple of links for you regarding the "future" of cinema going...

    Disney and Dolby join forces to launch new 3D technology in movie theatres
    http://www.homecinemachoice.com/cgi-bin/shownews.php?id=8164

    Americans 'prefer' DVDs to cinema
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/4102814.stm

    UK cinemas share digital windfall
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/4583933.stm

    The movie industry needs think seriuosly about how to get us out of our home cinemas and back to the theatre.....
     
  4. fallwood

    fallwood
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    Ever since I got my first pj I have noticed more and more how bad the picture quality is at the cinema, obviously the image is a lot bigger that im used to viewing at home but blurriness and washed out blacks have become more noticable since I became a pj enthusiast. Jut got back from hollywood and we went to a viewing at the new graumans (chinese theater) multiscreen , the screen we saw is suposed to have the latest in digital projectors and I thought the picture was appaling , it was blocky and suffered from serious stutter on pans, dont go to the cinema much now cos I get better viewing pleasure at home, the sound is usually sh*te at the cinema as well.
     
  5. Wild Rumpus

    Wild Rumpus
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    I would be surprised if a film projector would give blurring on motion, after all - it is simply light going through film - there isn't any digital information to cause blurring and judder on on motion? The black levels are very gray too. I'll need to find a better cinema local to me.
    I prefer the cinema in my Parernt's town (Elgin), it is more like a journey back in time; curtains over the screen, an intermission and a lady selling ice-creams down at the front :thumbsup:
     
  6. Gilbers

    Gilbers
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    "Disney and Dolby join forces to launch new 3D technology in movie theatres"...

    To my mind there is at least one unsolved problem with 3D movies. Most movies cut constantly between a variety of viewpoints from shot to shot. This is fine because your eyes stay focused the whole time on the surface of the cinema screen. However, every time the viewpoint changes in a 3D film your eyes must refocus at a different point in 3D space. If the 3D IMAX movies are anything to go by, this leads to eye fatigue after a fairly short space of time (in my experience anyway) I certainly wouldn't fancy watching a 3 hour epic like LOTR in 3D.
     
  7. DaveC

    DaveC
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    The blurring isn't a digital artefact, it's caused by the low frame rate of regular film projectors....I think it's only 25 fps. Fast panning movement always looks naff in the cinema. If you've ever seen a film on IMAX, you can really see the difference .... the film runs at a higher frame rate (and uses bigger film too) so panning shots and fast on-screen movement are much better.

    Did anyone notice during the big spaceship fight scenes at the beginning of the recent starwars film, it was really difficult to see exactly what was going on sometimes because of all the motion blur?

    Interestingly enough, one of the reasons that cinemas are dark is to reduce the perception of flicker due to the low frame rate.

    A few years ago I saw Toy Story 2 on a digital projector at the Trafford Centre cinema. It wasn't until then that I realised just how poor regular film projection is. Toy Story being created totally digitally had a big advantage....on the cinema screen it was like looking at a 40 foot PC monitor....so crisp, no flicker, no crappy background noise.

    Digital cinema is definitely the future....it's a pretty sorry state of affairs when a 576 line DVD into a home projector looks better than the cinema??
     
  8. Maff et1

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    Film is shot at 12 fps and each frame is shown twice in the print to give 24fps in the cinema

    After awhile you don't even see the numbers anymore, all I see is blonde, brunette...
     
  9. lukemh

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    you we do this stuff so I wont blow our trumpet too much, but you may also find some film projectionists actually prefer the image to be a little out of focus. its all a matter of preference.....................I of course prefer the Barco Digital Cinema!!
     
  10. pez

    pez
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    Animation is (or was) 12fps, film is 24.

    what we need are home projectors that can output 24fps, so no need for 3:2 pulldown.

    pez
     
  11. mrm3

    mrm3
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    I'd be willing to give it a good go though.
     
  12. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    I believe Disney was one of the first to do true 24fps animation and that has become the norm now I believe for cinema movies.

    Cinemas double the frame to show it at 48fps so that it reduces flicker even more. Having the reflectance low at 12ft lamberts or less makes the flicker even harder to see. Panning can be a camera issue fromt he way it was filmed - RTFM knows all about this as he was a movie cameraman for some years (27 IIRC).

    Some home projectors like the Optoma H78/9 can accept 48fps from scalers or HTPC for film sources, and I believe the Marantz can do the same. There are probably otehrs but I couldn't tell you them off the top of my head but I wouldn't be surprised if Sim2 could as well.

    Gary.
     
  13. cinemagary

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    All this talk of blurring, grey black,image out of focus, etc is making my head spin.
    Speaking as ex-projectionist in my opinion no self respecting projectionist would not knowingly show a film slighty out of focus and projectors cannot be speeded up they run at a constant 24fps and yes black levels often do look grey, as don't forget it is white light projected onto a white screen.

    Digital Cinema is definitely the future...:)
     
  14. Wild Rumpus

    Wild Rumpus
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    The picture that I saw certainly wasn't out of focus, and was pretty good (greyish blacks excepted) when there was little movement on the screen. I still don't understand why I should see motion blurring on the screen from a film projector when a DVD from the same film does not exhibit this? Unless the film has been produced from a digital copy of the movie?
     
  15. zag2me

    zag2me
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    Cinema's wont use digitall technology until someone comes up with a way to secure it from piracy. You are paying to watch an analogue version that is inferiour to even the basic home theatre setup.

    Personally I havnt been to the cinema in about 5 years, since I saw Dr doolittle and the real got stuck and we all got our money back and went down the pub ;)
     
  16. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    Digital Cinemas already exist (we even have them here in the UK), and the main piracy concern is the guy with a video camera, so it doesn't matter if the projector is digital or analogue. :)

    Gary
     
  17. Stinja

    Stinja
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    Assuming you have a proper one.

    I've been to a theatre, with an obviously out-of-focus picture, and shouted to the monkey at the back that it was so. He shouts back its fine, but encouraged by myself other patrons speak up also; end result after 10 mins and calling the manager (about 10 years younger than me, and probably not legally able to drink) and some shuffling it gets marginally better.

    I wouldnt be surprised if they'd doubled the cleaner as projectionist... and the PJ was a 100W light box with the film being manually pulled thru :rolleyes:
     
  18. sbowler

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    its the same old story guys, size versus quality, too big and quality suffers. try zooming your home PJ upto its max size see how the quality diminishes. so like we tell the ladies big isnt always best.
     
  19. PJTX100

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    I'm surprised you say that about the 700, as I'd suspect it's akin to the TX100 and I watch the TX at around 90-95% max zoom and the PQ is great, the max doesn't diminish it, it just overlaps the borders.

    I suspect if you moved back it would look as good as your normal size/viewing position. Zooming to max should not intrinsically diminish the PQ, it just lowers the viewing distance/screen width ratio which will show more artefacts...PJ :)
     
  20. They

    They
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    Repeating images, such as double shuttering in a cinema projector, will introduce motion judder and blur. The extent to which this is perceptable and annoying depends on many factors such as, suceptability of the viewer, magnitude of motion, original frame rate, size of image in viewer's field of vision.

    Film replication quality is a major issue in commercial cinema as is the projection quality and calibration. Film weave can have a marked negative impact on the ability of the viewer to resolve fine detail as can focus flutter etc. The quality of the film scanned for the HD master used for DVD (if the film wasn't digital to begin with) will usuall be of a much higher quality than that you will see at the local multi-plex. Furthermore, post processing can remove film grain and any excessive film motion and colour and sharpness problems. But one thing is for sure; and that is that if you were to project even the best DVD image onto a cinema sized screen, you would not be overly impressed!

    Image repeating is used in all our display technologies, even with DLP and LCD it is used for the sake of compatibility with existing video input rates (50Hz & 60Hz). 2:2 and 3:2 pulldown (and their variants) are a major hinderence to naturalistic motion portrayal. Increasing the original frame rate at capture would be the prefered solution and motion-compensated frame rate up-conversion can be used otherwise. This will happen in the medium term I am sure.

    Cheers.

    David.
     
  21. MovieAddict

    MovieAddict
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    I saw the War of the Worlds at the Odeon Leicester Square last week (its the first time in about 5 years since I've been to a cinema).
    You would think this would be one of the best places to see a movie, but in my opinion they had the sound turned up so high, it caused 'distortion' from the centre speakers.
    After experiencing home cinema projectors, it was noticeable how the contrast level did'nt seem all that good.
    It's a great movie though.
     

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