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What to do ...

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by sounddog, Jun 18, 2003.

  1. sounddog

    sounddog
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    We're considering selling our Rotel 1066 + 1075 ... shock horror ... no we havn't changed our opinion of how good it is ... just thinking about a change.

    We're thinking of replaceing it with a good stereo amp (something like a MF 3.2 or Arcam A22), with a Pioneer 2011 (if we can get hold of one) or 1011 (if we can't) and then soon after adding a (probably matching) CD player.

    Anyway ... does anyone have any comments? Anything from ... "what are you doing you fools" ... to ... "great idea" ... all gratefully recieved. Really we're wondering how the AV of the 2011 will compare to the Rotel and will music be MUCH improved with adding a stereo integrated amp.

    The other thing we're considering is using a more musical power amp for the front speakers ... something like the MF 3cr ... yes Bryston / Krell would be nice but out of price range.

    Oh ... and we've already put a holding deposit down on a pair of B&W N805 plus stands :) don't anyone say we're not predictable (I can promise you we did listen to other non B&W speakers as well!!).

    Vikki 'n' Steff
     
  2. alexs2

    alexs2
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    Congrats Vikki and Steff....the N805's should be very pleasing!

    As for changing your amps,I would seriously consider holding onto the Rotel until you've tried them with the B&Ws....I know the Rotels are more geared towards AV use,but the 805s are a moderately unpleasant load,and certainly gave a Tag 5 channel power amp a lot of trouble when I was listening to them in my local dealer prior to a home demo.
    I can't see any of your choices there,with the exception of the MF, being much superior,and tolerating the load adequately.

    You know my preferred amps....and I know they're not in the price range you had,but you want something with decent current delivery and bass control to get the best out of those speakers.
     
  3. jhjerpe

    jhjerpe
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    The 2011 is not great at driving difficult speakers, according to Pioneer...... but it's a great AMP, especially combined with a A85 for music... :)

    I've been thinking about going to other way for a while based on your rave feedback on the Rotel stuff, specifically to allow future upgrades to 4ohm speakers at the front....

    But then again the A85 would drive 4ohm speakers fine..... so maybe new speakers....as oppose to the Rotel...

    Panic... upgrade bug hitting again :)
     
  4. jhjerpe

    jhjerpe
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    The above post is not much help..... but if I where you I would hang on to the Rotel stuff if you can possibly afford it!
     
  5. sounddog

    sounddog
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    This upgrade / downgrade a bit to upgrade another bit a higher percentage lark is a bit of a nightmare :rolleyes:

    I really believe it would be an AV Downgrade but well we could get an MF front end for our Stereo.

    Heck I think the way forward is either 5.1 with Rotel and a decent CD Player or skip cd player and keep pioneer dvd player for cd duties for a while longer and go more musical front power amp to get back to 7.1 and good sounds out of the 805s


    Steff
    :suicide: :zonked: :eek:
     
  6. sounddog

    sounddog
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    To be honest I think i'd cry if we sold the Rotel kit and got a pioneer 2011 instead so I think just typing this has helped sort things out in my mind.

    Thanks for the help dudes and dudettes, keep the answers flowing :)

    Steff
     
  7. sounddog

    sounddog
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    Sounds like some of the posts I do :)

    Vikki
     
  8. alexs2

    alexs2
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    Like I suggested....keep the Rotels if you can,until you've auditioned something significantly better with the 805s...they're quite current hungry as you know,and also need a significant running-in time(longer than B&W suggest)but will sound superb.
    I found their mid and treble better than the Keltiks I'd been using,but obviously limited in the bass by comparison.
    If you are looking for good amps,it's also worth looking at good "previously loved" amps with high current delivery and sound quality.
     
  9. Daneel

    Daneel
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    It depends how much it's going to cost you. I think you will get a bit of an improvement in surround sound for films but I'm not convinced your stereo will improve at all.

    I would probably stick with what you have and spend the money on better speakers. Forget the 805s and buy 803s instead :)
     
  10. Nobber22

    Nobber22
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    Give the Rotels a chance by getting a better CD player than the Pioneer DVD player. Adding 805's further down the chain won't do them expensive B&W's any favours either. Source is all-important, so they say. :lesson:
     
  11. jhjerpe

    jhjerpe
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    IMO you really shouldn't get rid of the Rotel stuff.... sell the kids, cats, dogs... do a car boot sale, work over time :) But if you do want a 2011 I'll do a swap! ;)
     
  12. wilber

    wilber
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    Having finally sorted myself with a decent CD player (picked up for £300 from JL since you ask) I would recommend continuing to use your 757 - don't get me wrong the Arcam is a very nice CD player but compared against it my 656 does a pretty good job, whereas getting 7.1 is a definite benefit as is better sound from your 805s
     
  13. Mogli

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    Hi Wilber,

    Well my 2011 has arrived almost! Its being held at my local depot as i missed the delivery today. Oh how much i would have given to get home a little earlier! But anyways my question is re the 656 and cd sound quality... How does it sound sonically?

    I have one on order but having just heard that theres 2 week delay :( i am looking for a preview if you dont mind.

    Soundog dont mean to hijack your thread.. I am not to clued up on Rotel kit but i do know the 2011 is meant to be a good musical amp. You may find that if you do move onto a 2011 you may miss that something from the Rotel as we all know they make very good pieces of equipment and i am sure the last thing you need is to be thinking back to what you had...regretting what you have done.

    So i would maybe save a little more or wait till you have all the funds for what you really want and dont make concessions. Then you know you will have got what you want and put off that upgraderitis for a little longer! ;)

    Soundog and anyone else do you have an opinion on the B&W CDM1NT's as i am comtemplating upgrading my fronts...??

    Cheers,

    Mog
     
  14. sounddog

    sounddog
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    Mogli:

    Regarding the speakers. If you like the B&W "sound" then you will like them, slightly lacking in bass but that can be made up for by using a decent subwoofer.

    We have had b&w speakers for a few years and just love the sound, now there are lots of others on the forums that would rather have no speakers (or at least that is what they say) then anything with a B&W logo on it.

    It's horses for courses, don't buy them without listening to em. Try the good ole 602s3 before you rush out and buy CDM1s I know the 602 is a lot "less expensive" speaker but that doesn't necessarily make it a bad speaker, in actual fact we think it's a darn good speaker.

    Steff :)
     
  15. codling

    codling
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  16. wilber

    wilber
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    Mogli, good news 656 is a damn fine dvd player & does a good job with cds - on a par with say a sub £200 japanese cd player. Bad news, It's not as good as a £350 Japanese cd player. Worse news playing cds through a 811 & 1011 is not a great sonic experience & so I wouldn't expect great things from a 2011 (internally very similar to the 1011). Hence my choice to have a lower spec av amp (exclusively for movies) coupled with an integrated amp (for music & driving front l/r for movies). I hope you really like your 2011 but if you have an odd feeling about how music sounds, look there first rather than the dvd player.
     
  17. sounddog

    sounddog
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    Have been looking at MF A3 integrated and power amps for around £400 each. We are considering buying an A3 integrated now, then maybe adding the power amp to bi-amp the N805 later.

    When we demo'd them, was with a A308 ... and they sounded rather nice :) ... but how close will an A3 be?

    Vikki
     
  18. Mogli

    Mogli
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    Steff,

    Thanks for the reply :). I think B&W have proved themselves with countless speakers. But like you said everyone has different likes and dislikes and they may suit some people and not others.

    The only problem i think i may have now is finding a shop with all the stuff i want to demo. Especially the 2011!!

    Well tomorrow should be kewl am going to pick up the amp :D .

    Cheers,

    Mogli
     
  19. 337GUS

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    soundog

    Just about to upgrade from 3.2 to 308 but have heard the earlier 3 stuff lots. MF family sound is consistent but I would go for the 3.2 over the 3 if poss. Seen 3.2 stuff around £550.

    wilber

    Despite all the reviews to the contrary I have to agree and say that the 2011 just doesn't cut it with music, in fact it sucks. As a movie amp it's superb though :)

    mogli

    Definately listen to the 600 series, I think at the price they are the best AV/HiFi compromise you can get. I had 603 S2's for quite a while and the only step up I would have been happy with was the CDM9's at 3x the price. Some don't rate the B&W stuff but just trust your ears and get a dem.

    Gus
     
  20. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    Do you need the address of a good bereavement counsellor? :D

    Well, okay, I have two observations:

    1) Why? Why sell up your Rotel kit and go for something like a Pioneer 2011? That's a definite downgrade. Are you really that strapped for cash?

    2) You might want to consider not buying the official N805 stands. £400 is a heck of a lot of money to pay for a pair of speaker stands. You'd need to be awfully sure that you couldn't get something nearly as good for £200, or even £100.
     
  21. nathan_silly

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    I thought you've just bought the 1066? Is it that bad? I have to agree with Nic, unless something is seriously lacking, why change? - and even worse to downgrade to a AV amp. Maybe easier to use, but definite difference in sound quality & power.

    If you want heavy stands, try finding Target R series stands (can email a pic if you want) I think rrp were £350. No longer made, but very high quality if you can a pair.

    If you don't like the 1066 in stereo, why not look for a decent Hi-Fi pre-amp and two 2-channel poweramps, or four monoblocs?
     
  22. 337GUS

    337GUS
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  23. sounddog

    sounddog
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    Nicholas / Nathan ... there's nothing wrong with the Rotel ... we just went a bit mad really - the old "hear something that sounds good" routine.

    We're getting the official stands as part of the package with the N805 ... they're ex-dem (both speakers and stand) and basically the speakers with stands are costing us about £50 - £100 more than just the speakers would. So thats fair enough - probably wouldn't have bought them at £400.

    The getting a 2011 + MF A3.2 (or A3) idea was aiming to get almost as good AV, but getting better stereo ... but really don't think it will actually improve anything.

    The more we think / discuss it ... the more we'll probably stick with what we've got ... adding a CD player at a later date and we also have to replace the 991 as someone made us and offer we couldn't refuse on it.

    Vikki
     
  24. sounddog

    sounddog
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    Nathan: So err umm did you think we were lying when we said how good it is? It is in no way bad, but we are just "considering" going for a more musical approach, which might involve a sacrafice on one side to upgrade the other.

    We have said all along in this this we are only considering changing, and to be honest after all the interesting responses our opinions have firmed in one direction, which is "probably" to keep the processor and 5 channel amp.

    Then we need a cd player and a power or intergrated amp for the front. So it's either get the good power amp now and save for cd player or get cd player and a really naff little amp to use for the 6th and 7th speakers at the rear, just to get that extra little bit of fun.

    This is when the fun comes in as Vikki and I probably will spend about 10 years deciding on which one to upgrade first. I suppose it depends on which bargain comes up first

    :)

    Thanks for your helpful advice everyone.

    Steff
     
  25. mick23

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    soundog i think this a dilema we all experience to some degree, i think a lot of forum members have ie not got the space for seperate hifi av system, so we have to compromise, and find after a while the av side of things begins to take 2nd place to descent sterio replay.

    so we try av in a box ,pre/power combo add a seperate integrated , and so on.

    are the 805s the signature speakers about £1400 new (birds eye finish etc) if so what did you demo them with, if you did demo i would have thought they would be a bit bass light compared to your 602s3.

    i have seen the krell integrated 300ki i believe going for just over £1000 although have no knowledge of what that is exactly as regards good etc , but is a mf amp or pre/power going to be "good enough" for a £1400 pair of speakers.

    getting a 2011 ,which you are only going to use for av processing anyway does not make sense, apart from the 2011 have 7 internal amps .
     
  26. 337GUS

    337GUS
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    Hope so cos that's what I use ;)

    Gus
     
  27. sounddog

    sounddog
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    The normal Nautilus 805 are £1400 new ... the Signature 805 (birds eye, etc finishes) are £2250 (around there).

    We'd use the 2011 for processor plus 5 of it's internal amps for the speakers apart from the 2 fronts - which we would use the Musical Fidelity A3.2 for (if thats what we got).

    Vikki
     
  28. HotblackDesiato

    HotblackDesiato
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    Unless you're strapped for cash i'd keep the Rotel pre/power, but i can see where you're coming from having just got rid of my AV5 and 5 Powers to help fund further upgrades. The weird thing is that now i'm dependent on my 2011 i find it less acceptable than when the Cyrus gear was upstairs, even though i didn't use to use it much.
     
  29. petrolhead

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    Well Steff and Vikki.

    HAVE YOU LOST THE PLOT OR WHAT :D

    Mind you I am supprised how long it took Nathan to come in and have a dig :)

    Nathan your slipping :)

    I would be tempted to leave the Rotel Setup well alone and look at a good stand alone music system.

    Peter
     
  30. sounddog

    sounddog
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    well the eBay auction for the 1066 + 1075 is going to end soon, next few hours especially as i'll probably just cancel all the bids.

    Seriously I think the answer is just to be way more patient then we are.

    Keep the Rotels cos I really would cry if they went. Then a MF 3 or 3.2 (or similar make) intergrated or power amp for the fronts and then just go from there over time.

    Petrolhead, nahh don't worry we haven't gone insane (anyway i'm already insane so..)

    It has been an interesting discussion. Well you will be able to tell from our .sig over the next x amount of time what we have / haven't changed.

    :devil: Steff :devil:

    Nicb: Regarding the stands, we got a lot more off the deal for throwing them in cos I think the dealer just wanted to get them off their hands :) so £1300 for stands n speakers would have been probably closer to £1200 then £1100 for the speakers alone. So really I think they cost about £150 which seemed about the price we would have to pay for any reasonable stands. Partingtons are £100ish but for only a few quid more these are cute.
     

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