What subwoofer for baffle/screen wall?

Smurfin

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Hi all

Long time since I posted anything on here, but I'm finally in a position - after many years talking about it - to sort out a dedicated room. My new house has a single garage joined onto the house which has already been converted, so it's prime for adaption to a dedicated room.

I plan to create a screen wall and have everything hidden. Mains will be JBL 3677 (in a single garage :laugh: ) ....and the wall will be between 12-15" deep. I plan to construct a timber frame, mount the JBLs off the floor so the sub will sit underneath them. The main restriction will be the depth as I don't want to lose too much of the room. So what are my options?

In my living room I have an Arendal Sub2 which will remain there, but obviously a design like that won't work in the new room...

Thoughts?
 
Sounds like an Octo coming on:D

I remember Jameskatie doing an array of about 8 drivers in a horizontal row under the screen they sounded pretty phenomenal. I don't think the drivers were more than 10"/12".

I don't know if there is a thread on it somewhere on here.



His avatar shows something like I was thinking about.
 
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This was the thread, you were on it a few posts so you must remember it well.

Is this the sort of thing you would consider?

I know James had some health issues and has not been on here since 2018 I hope he is still around somewhere. 😍
 
XTZ Cinema 2x12 is low depth made for below the screen/inside baffle wall. 1000w rms amp using IcePower amp modules (PSA uses them too for reason) with PEQ, 2x 12" long stroke drivers, sealed cab. 17-180 Hz (+/- 3dB)

1000 x 450x 300 mm (W x H x D)

You have to ask price from XTZ EU.

48971516_2242307086045908_2749185442065678336_n.jpg


48382422_2242306226045994_3738656335521120256_n.jpg


48426470_2242306989379251_4167003130577289216_n.jpg


48405213_2242307039379246_5744327464851603456_n.jpg




Read the site with google translator if google chrome doesn´t auto translate it.
 
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Some max output figures taken from Italian forum. I think the 2x12 is also called DS12.17. The D12.17 is dual opposite version with same drivers and amp very similar to your Arendal Sub 2 but slightly larger cab.


D12.17 / DS12.17 SPL test, compared to 3x12 which is one of the most powerful subs on the market (CEA 2010 2M.)

20 Hz 102 dB (3x12, 110 dB)
40 Hz 118 dB (3x12, 121 dB)
80 Hz 119 dB (3x12, 121 dB)
100 Hz 120 dB (3x12, 119 dB)
 
Are you using any other subs elsewhere?

I’ve got a pair of Arendal 1s behind my screen (and a pair of 2s in the back corners). They help with my overall response, but taken by themselves they have a huge dip from 40-80hz, so would be no good by themselves.

Just something to consider.
 
Hi all

Long time since I posted anything on here, but I'm finally in a position - after many years talking about it - to sort out a dedicated room. My new house has a single garage joined onto the house which has already been converted, so it's prime for adaption to a dedicated room.

I plan to create a screen wall and have everything hidden. Mains will be JBL 3677 (in a single garage :laugh: ) ....and the wall will be between 12-15" deep. I plan to construct a timber frame, mount the JBLs off the floor so the sub will sit underneath them. The main restriction will be the depth as I don't want to lose too much of the room. So what are my options?

In my living room I have an Arendal Sub2 which will remain there, but obviously a design like that won't work in the new room...

Thoughts?

Have you considered an Infinite Baffle sub? The manifold for the sub could be built inside the room or you could use the adjacent room or loft space if you have a pitched roof.

If you want to go with a conventional in-wall type of sub I'd perhaps consider a floating design similar to what JL audio use.
 
Hi, an infinite baffle design won’t work unfortunately - and I don’t want to go down the in-wall route really. Will look into that though.

almost wondering if a couple of svs cylinders lying down would work….
 
Hmm can't see any reason why cylinders couldn't work. The only thing to think about is if the ports are on top and open, and you have them lying down, you probably wouldn't want them too close to each other as there could be cancellation issues.
 
Have you considered an Infinite Baffle sub? The manifold for the sub could be built inside the room or you could use the adjacent room or loft space if you have a pitched roof.

If you want to go with a conventional in-wall type of sub I'd perhaps consider a floating design similar to what JL audio use.
Hi @MI55ION, can you explain how this would work please?

See my very rough drawing, am I right in thinking I could mount 2 subs of some type in a large sealed DIY box in my proposed baffle wall, then open the bottom of that box to the crawl space under the floor to create some kind of infinite baffle ?
 

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Yes you can mate, you're starting to get the idea.

The only thing is you wouldn't use a single large box like that. Instead you'd build perhaps a pair (or a single) smaller manifold like this:

download.jpg

The reason they use dual opposed design (a pair of subs firing opposite each other) is to cancel vibrations as it can get violent. The open section will then fire straight down into your crawl space. The box section that the subs are attached to would need to use the space in your room so if you place it inside your baffle wall it would need sufficient opening. Hope that makes sense.

EDIT: Just to add, to avoid the opening of your baffle wall acting as a port of sort I'm not sure how big a clearance you would need as this isn't a conventional IB design. Perhaps propose your idea to the IB gurus over on AVSForums, they have some highly experienced knowledgeable folk who can help get the measurements right.

 
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Yes you can mate, you're starting to get the idea.

The only thing is you wouldn't use a single large box like that. Instead you'd build perhaps a pair (or a single) smaller manifold like this:

View attachment 1636537

The reason they use dual opposed design (a pair of subs firing opposite each other) is to cancel vibrations as it can get violent. The open section will then fire straight down into your crawl space. The box section that the subs are attached to would need to use the space in your room so if you place it inside your baffle wall it would need sufficient opening. Hope that makes sense.
I think I understand, so that lip on the box would in effect be my cinema room floor level but within the baffle wall, and below the lip under my crawl space ?

I am used to seeing woofers pointing towards listening position, so this is a little confusing to me.
If my above understanding is correct they would be firing at each other with sound I imagine bouncing up into the room within the baffle wall, and thats all OK ?
 
I think I understand, so that lip on the box would in effect be my cinema room floor level but within the baffle wall, and below the lip under my crawl space ?

I am used to seeing woofers pointing towards listening position, so this is a little confusing to me.
If my above understanding is correct they would be firing at each other with sound I imagine bouncing up into the room within the baffle wall, and thats all OK ?

Yes to the first bit but you could also have it the other way round. The manifold could be placed in your crawl space firing up or it could be in your baffle wall firing down into the crawl space.

Think of a conventional sealed sub as having two chambers, one chamber is the inside of the box and the other is your room. The drivers don't really care which way they are facing, there is equal pressure in both directions. In the IB design, the key thing is creating a sealed separation between the two chambers. It's like your entire room becomes a box. The only complexity here is that you'd be building it into a baffle wall rather than your room, so would need adequate clearance so the sub can use the volume of your room.
 
Yes to the first bit but you could also have it the other way round. The manifold could be placed in your crawl space firing up or it could be in your baffle wall firing down into the crawl space.

Think of a conventional sealed sub as having two chambers, one chamber is the inside of the box and the other is your room. The drivers don't really care which way they are facing, there is equal pressure in both directions. In the IB design, the key thing is creating a sealed separation between the two chambers. It's like your entire room becomes a box. The only complexity here is that you'd be building it into a baffle wall rather than your room, so would need adequate clearance so the sub can use the volume of your room.
Thanks, how would I determine how much clearance is enough ?

I think I prefer the idea of them firing up, so the space between floor and screen is what I will have, I could seal that as well away from the LCR stage - do you think that would be enough / work ?

And final question (s)…

What type and how many subs would I be looking at for this size room (4m wide, 5m long and 3 m high)

And the ultimate, would it actually be worth the effort or would a couple off the shelf smaller subs work as well?
 
Thanks, how would I determine how much clearance is enough ?
Wrt clearance perhaps you missed it as I did edit my post, check with the folks over on AVSForums linked above. They know their stuff. I'd imagine some type of acoustically transparent material would be advised for a large opening.

I think I prefer the idea of them firing up, so the space between floor and screen is what I will have, I could seal that as well away from the LCR stage - do you think that would be enough / work ?
It should work perfectly.

What type and how many subs would I be looking at for this size room (4m wide, 5m long and 3 m high)
There's a range of sizes from FI Audio IB3v2 that are good value. I'd suggest start with 2 manifolds and 4 drivers although you could easily double that to 2 manifolds and 8 drivers.

And the ultimate, would it actually be worth the effort or would a couple off the shelf smaller subs work as well?
IBs are next level stuff so expect jaws to drop and walls to shake (if you so desire). If your property is attached to any other building I'd probably look elsewhere. A detached property would be ideal.

It does require a bit of research and preparation.
Some useful information and assistance can be found here:



 
Wrt clearance perhaps you missed it as I did edit my post, check with the folks over on AVSForums linked above. They know their stuff. I'd imagine some type of acoustically transparent material would be advised for a large opening.


It should work perfectly.


There's a range of sizes from FI Audio IB3v2 that are good value. I'd suggest start with 2 manifolds and 4 drivers although you could easily double that to 2 manifolds and 8 drivers.


IBs are next level stuff so expect jaws to drop and walls to shake (if you so desire). If your property is attached to any other building I'd probably look elsewhere. A detached property would be ideal.

It does require a bit of research and preparation.
Some useful information and assistance can be found here:



Thanks, I am lucky to be detached, although I have no desire to shake the house 😂
Certainly food for thought, thanks for all the help.
 
Thanks, I am lucky to be detached, although I have no desire to shake the house 😂
Certainly food for thought, thanks for all the help.

No worries. Don't forget you could always high pass it at 20hz if you wanted to avoid the house shaking. Ultra clean bass like you' ve never heard before, near limitless power at your disposal with the ability to shake the foundations (if desired). With great power comes great responsibility! :D
 
Hi, I thought I'd add to this thread rather than starting a new as I'm too looking for a subwoofer solution to fit behind an AT screen.

I'm aware of the M&K C15S, and also looked at a Krix passive option (probably 2 x Cyclonix 15's as per an MX20 configuration). XTZ EU have confirmed they can't supply a 2x12 which is a shame.

Are their any other thoughts as to what might work well in a 6m x 4m room with the main speakers being Ken Kreisel Quattros ?

I've a depth of 320mm on the shelf for the sub as per this drawing.
Dimensions for Sub.png
 
The M&K C15S would work well. Particularly with the KK’s.

298mm deep. Allow another 10-15mm for the driver excursion if played at reference.

Various mounting options come with the subwoofer.

We run 6 x C15S behind our screen.

Best wishes

Rich@SeriouslyCinema
 
Hi, I thought I'd add to this thread rather than starting a new as I'm too looking for a subwoofer solution to fit behind an AT screen.

I'm aware of the M&K C15S, and also looked at a Krix passive option (probably 2 x Cyclonix 15's as per an MX20 configuration). XTZ EU have confirmed they can't supply a 2x12 which is a shame.

Are their any other thoughts as to what might work well in a 6m x 4m room with the main speakers being Ken Kreisel Quattros ?

I've a depth of 320mm on the shelf for the sub as per this drawing.View attachment 1760025
How much is a Cyclonix 15?

DIY is one other option I guess?
 
I think RRP of the Cyclonix 15 is £2700, it’s passive and they suggest something like a Yamaha px3 which is around £600 so probably similar money to the MK one.

I’d thought about DIY but get scared when I start reading about the technicalities of subwoofer tuning and not sure I’d know if I built one which performed like a dog.
 

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