what speakers should i go for with hi fi?

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi Stereo Speakers' started by markEbaby, May 20, 2019.

  1. markEbaby

    markEbaby
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    hi all

    i dont think i want computer active speakers just because if am not using my computer i cant use the active speakers

    but a hi fi system i can use when my computer is off so more ideal

    so am interested in the Denon DM41 DAB hi fi
    what speakers should i get with this denon?
    as i see many different package deals of speakers
    manufacuturers like Q Acoustics, polk, dali spektor etc

    i will use hi fi system with my computer alot as i use my computer for many hours
    i need speakers with good voice clarity as i watch videos, streams etc
    but i listen to music other times also


    i think my max budget will be £350 for the denon hi fi with speakers
    let me know please what speakers be best for me with this system
     
  2. BlueWizard

    BlueWizard
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  3. markEbaby

    markEbaby
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    i want an optical connection, would like 2 optical connections but can show me with only 1 connection if there not much choice

    i dont think any hi fi i seen have a usb connection for computer so need the red and white connection for computer

    i want either dab+ or internet radio
    id be ok with internet radio but i seen on reviews on how connection can drop so am not sure internet radio reliable is this the case? if so id prefer dab + if this the case

    by mini amp do you mean mini hi fi?
    due to my small table set up were i place the hi fi i want something similar to the size of this denon

    possibly it not a must but would not mind having bluetooth but only if the bluetooth is really good quality

    is there better options than this denon for me with similar price?
     
  4. BlueWizard

    BlueWizard
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    That's not my experiences. Especially if you use a wired connection, Internet Radio of which there are about 34,000 Stations including multiple BBC stations, should be very reliable.

    Bluetooth always uses some type of compression, so it will never be the best, but it can still be good. Keep in mind that most Internet Streaming Services also use some type of compression, so they do not quite reach CD quality, but they can still sound very good.

    Though I will add that Bluetooth is always improving both in sound quality and transmission range, but it is never going to be equal to CD Quality. But ...again... it can still sound good.

    Most streaming services (Spotify and similar) either offer a Free Trial or the offer a Free Version. Generally the paid version has slightly better sound quality, but you can get some sense by trying out the free version.

    The Denon RCD-41-DAB (£199) are reasonably good, but you have to consider there is a reason they cost a fraction of what most component systems cost. If you budget is lean, then these are certainly an option, though the rated power is modest.

    Denon RCD-M41 Silver Micro Hi-Fi System w/ Bluetooth - Mini Systems - AV Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists

    Denon RCD-M41 Black Micro Hi-Fi System w/ Bluetooth - Mini Systems - AV Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists

    In that price range, there is not much that can compare for features, other than similar amps for other brands like Yamaha.

    But if you can spend more money, there are other options, though perhaps not as compact.

    Speakers are much like the amp, you have to consider what you want them to do, and how much money you want to spend, and what size you can handle. I do not recommend speakers with less than 5", 5.25", 5.5" (130mm) bass drivers. Not if you want full range sound.

    The Q Acoustic 3020 (£249/pr) are very clear speakers at a very modest price, though the bass is not exceptionally deep -

    Q Acoustics Q 3020i Carbon Black Bookshelf Speakers (Pair) - Bookshelf Speakers - AV Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists

    Q Acoustics Q 3020i English Walnut Bookshelf Speakers (Pair) - Bookshelf Speakers - AV Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists

    If you want a real bargain, you can get the older Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 (£119/pr) for deep discounts as they are several models behind the current model -

    Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 Walnut Bookshelf Speakers (Pair) - Bookshelf Speakers - AV Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists

    Here is the current model Wharfedale Diamond 11.1 (£185/pr to £195/pr) -

    Wharfedale Diamond 11.1 White Sandex Bookshelf Speakers (Pair) - Bookshelf Speakers - AV Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists

    Wharfedale Diamond 11.1 Rosewood Quilted Bookshelf Speakers (Pair) - Bookshelf Speakers - AV Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists

    The DALI ZENSOR 1 (£144/pr) seem to be getting harder to find, but they have been very successful speakers, and are worth considering -

    Dali Zensor 1 Bookshelf Speakers - HiFi & Pairs - Speakers

    Also consider -

    Tannoy Mercury 7.2 - £219/pr -

    Tannoy Mercury 7.2 Walnut Bookshelf Speakers (Pair) - Bookshelf Speakers - AV Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists

    Monitor Audio Bronze 1 - £229/pr -

    Monitor Audio Bronze 1 Walnut Bookshelf Speakers (Pair) - Bookshelf Speakers - AV Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists

    It is really just a question of low large the speakers can be, how much money you can spend, and how much performance you realistically want.

    You might consider something like this Yamaha Package that has addtional features like Network Streaming -

    Yamaha MCR-N670D Mini System w/Speakers - £519 -

    Yamaha MCR-N670D Black Mini Hi-Fi System w/ MusicCast & DAB - Mini Systems - AV Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists

    MusicCast MCR-N670D - Overview - Yamaha - UK and Ireland

    The Network Stream and DAB are in the CD Player. You can find pictures of the Back of these devices here -

    Yamaha A-670 Black Stereo Amplfier - Mini Systems - AV Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists

    Yamaha CD-NT670D Silver Network CD Player w/ MusicCast & DAB - CD Players - AV Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists

    The Amp has a limited number of inputs, but pretty much everything you need is built into the system.

    Notice that the Yamaha CD-NT670D has an additional AUX In and an Optical In, so that provides you a few more inputs. While Yamaha does tend to fudge the power rating on this amp, best guess you can expect a solid 40w/ch to 8 ohms at a reasonable distortion rating.

    But if you look at the back panel of the Denon RCD-41-DAB it does not have a lot of input either. Perhaps one extra Optical In, but it does not have Network Streaming.

    Taking a slightly different approach, the Yamaha WXA-50 (£329) Network Amplifier has 1xAUX, 1xOptical, and a Network Connection. The Network Connection give you access to Network Streaming Services, Internet Radion, and stored music on the local network.

    Yamaha WXA-50 MusicCast Stereo Streaming Amplifier - Mini Systems - AV Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists

    MusicCast WXA-50 - Overview - Yamaha - UK and Ireland

    No CD player though.

    Probably the best of Mini-Amps would be this considerably expensive Marantz X-M-CR612 (£629) high features, high quality, very solid power. The X-M-CR-612 is the latest version, you might be able to find the older M-CR-611 at very considerable discounts.

    Marantz UK | Melody X (M-CR612)

    Marantz UK | M-CR611 Melody Media

    Amazon Search - Marantz M-CD611 -


    https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=Marantz+M-CR611&ref=nb_sb_noss_2

    Your budget of £350 is not likely for an entire system, though for an Amp, that is generous. I suspect Amp and Speakers are going to run closer to £400 or more, though I have given you some good speaker options and there are others to consider.

    Though you can probably find better prices than the Amazon link above, the older Marantz MCR-611 at about £350 plus another roughly £200/pr for speaker would net you a very good system.

    The Yamaha 670 system at close to £500 is also an option.

    £350 for an entire system (amp+speakers) is possible. The Denon RCD-41 at £200 and the Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 at £120 bring you in pretty close to budget. Throw in accessories like wire and cable, plus shipping, and you are pretty much dead on your budget.

    Again something in the range of £500 for the system would be better, but if £350 is the limit that certainly can be done.

    Just a few additional options.

    Steve/bluewizard
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
  5. Nexusmaximus

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    What about the Topping Mx3 as an amp, surprisingly punchy for such a small unit, and plenty of connection options.. all for a nice little sum £100.
     
  6. BlueWizard

    BlueWizard
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    I considered recommending amps similar to the Topping, but I was thinking more along the line of this -

    SMSL AD-18 Amp with DAC and Bluetooth - £123 -

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/AD18-Stereo-Amplifier-Bluetooth-Subwoofer/dp/B071JN7GXN/

    But somehow we have to wrangle a CD Player and perhaps Network Streaming into the budget. But compact amps like the SMSL AD-18 can perform amazingly well.

    Shenzhen ShuangMuSanLin Electronic Co., Ltd. - AD-18 Amplifier w/DAC

    Really a matter of the Original Poster weighing his priorities and budget.

    For reference, here is a link to the suggested TOPPING AMP -

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Topping-MX3-Bluetooth-Headphome-Amplifier/dp/B075SYC4Z5/

    Most of the compact Class-D/Class-T amps are rated at 4 ohms, so you can cut the power in half to get the standard 8 ohm rating. That means the SMSL AD-18 will kick out a pretty solid 40w/ch to 8 ohms.

    Steve/bluewizard
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
  7. markEbaby

    markEbaby
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    thanks for the reply i need some more help

    i think my budget is £350 for everything so id want to try stay at this price
    maybe i can go to £400 if i get alot better
    some options be good to decide from

    just to say my room is small so the speakers will be against the wall
    i will be close to speakers as at my computer
    so i need speakers that are good for being against the wall

    i dont want speakers that are bigger than 240mm in depth so the whafedale are to big in depth


    also want good voice clarity as watch videos etc


    i dont know if i want the q acoustics speakers as they lack bass some people seem be complaining about this

    whats the difference between the dali spektor 1 and 2 which is better?

    would the dali spektor or monitor audio bronze 1 speakers be better? whats the difference in sound?

    so i need know more about these speakers please



    on the hi fi am still not sure what to get

    id like it to have a usb connection for computer but none seem to have this

    id need an optical connection, 2 if possible, 1 for sure

    on the internet radio subcription service how much would it cost?
    and without a subcription so using the free version do i get more channels than dab+ radio ?

    also you say the internet station sound quality is better on paid version
    but would the sound quality on free version be better or worse than dab+?

    let me know this please be good
     
  8. muljao

    muljao
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    You say your room is small. The q acoustics are not lacking in bass, only if compared to bigger speakers. I'd go for your original Denon and pair it with the q acoustic 3020, they are 100 pounds less than the 3020i and a great little box

    For your money new you likely won't get much better
     
  9. Nexusmaximus

    Nexusmaximus
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  10. Nexusmaximus

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  11. BlueWizard

    BlueWizard
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    The difference is the bass driver size and the bass response.

    The Spektor 1 have 4.5 inch bass drivers with a rated response of 59hz -

    DALI SPEKTOR 1 | Affordable compact bookshelf speaker

    The Spektor 2 have 5.25" bass drivers with a rated response of 54hz -

    DALI SPEKTOR 2 | Compact speaker for your Home Cinema



    You would have to listen to determine how they sound to you. Both are good speakers, it is just a matter of which you prefer.


    It is possible to get USB as a separate item. If you want a bargain USB-DAC, they can be had for cheap on Amazon-UK -

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Creative-Sound-Blaster-Resolution-External/dp/B073KTPNDR/

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Creative-BlasterX-Portable-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B01EOPT0VG/

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-UCA202-U-Control-low-latency-Interface/dp/B000KW2YEI/

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-UCA222-U-Control-Ultra-Low-Interface/dp/B0023BYDHK/

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/UGREEN-External-Converter-Microphone-Raspberry/dp/B01M7QQQC7/

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cambridge-Audio-DacMagic-Portable-USB-Blue/dp/B0753QB5RX/

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/AudioQuest-DragonFly-Digital-Audio-Converter/dp/B01DP5JHHI/

    Internet Radio is Free, Internet Streaming Services are about £10/month, but they do have a Student version that is about half that. Though not sure how the verify that you are a student.

    Music for everyone. - Spotify-UK

    Keep in mind they have a FREE version, though there will be breaks for Adverts, and occasional delays. Most intended to be a trial, but for those who are broke, it is still workable.

    Here is a free Internet Radio Station that I use sometime -

    Free Music Online - Internet Radio - Jango

    Keep in mind there are 34,000 Internet Radio Station including about a dozen BBC stations. Many broadcast radio stations also broadcast into the Internet.

    Most streaming devices will use some type of aggregate service for Internet Radio. That is, a single point that collect all the Internet Radio Stations, and provides a common interface for them -

    Internet Radio: Music from Thousands of Stations

    Some of these are free, but others charge a fee for access to Internet Radio through them. The fee for Internet-Radio linked above is about £5/month.

    There are even aggregates for aggregates, here is a directory of Free Internet Radio Stations -

    Free Internet Radio - The Best of Online Radio Stations

    Give them a try and see what you think of the sound.

    Internet Radio UK, online radio stations, listen to internet radio

    Generally speaking most Internet Radio is a decent MP3 quality. Streaming Services are slightly better than MP3 and nearing CD quality. The Paid Streaming Services are slightly better than the Free version, and many have a Premium version that is dead on CD Quality.

    For what I have heard from other people, while DAB and DAB+ have the potential to be very good, that potential is not realized. I would expec them to be lesser quality MP3 equivalent.

    Steve/bluewizard
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2019
  12. BlueWizard

    BlueWizard
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    As mentioned the Q Acoustic 3020 (not "i") are on deep discounts, that's what I have on my computer. They are about 4" forward of the wall, and the ports are plugged.

    Plugging the Port is a means by which you can move the speaker closer to the wall with no negative effects.

    Q Acoustics 3020 - £119/pr -


    Q Acoustics 3020 (Matte Graphite)

    (H/D/W) 10.23" x 8.89" x 6.69"

    That is a considerable discount for the newer 3020i speakers -

    Q Acoustic 3020i - £249/pr -


    Q Acoustics 3020I (Graphite)

    (H/D/W) 10.9" x 11.1" x 6.7"

    There are lots of speakers available that will fit your budget -

    Mission LX2 (Black)

    Mission LX2 (Walnut)

    Cambridge Audio SX50 (Walnut)

    Cambridge Audio SX60 (Walnut)

    Wharfedale DIAMOND 220 (Black)

    Steve/bluewizard
     
  13. markEbaby

    markEbaby
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    thanks for the replys everyone

    there so any products i not sure what to go for

    bluewizard you say
    I do not recommend speakers with less than 5", 5.25", 5.5" (130mm) bass drivers. Not if you want full range sound.


    the q acoustics are 125mm so lower than the 130mm you recommend this bad?

    again i dont want the speakers to be bigger than 240mm in depth
    some speakers are better than others being against the wall i think from what i heard
    maybe because of how some speakers give out sound so need be good for this

    really good vocals for videos and enjoyable music quality

    i dont know if i should go for q acoustics, dali specktor or monitor audio speakers
    i dont know the differences between each of these speaker manufacturers


    also with these speakers are they good to listen to in any direction of do you have to be direct in front of speakers if you know what i mean
    do they all give out good sound throughout out the room at basically any angle



    on hi fi please as not sure

    does hi fi with free internet radio give better sound quality than other hi fi with dab+
    or the same?

    do them usb dac adapters affect sound quality like can they make sound worse somehow?

    let me know please
     
  14. BlueWizard

    BlueWizard
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    125mm ~ 5"

    The rated bass on these models is a modest 64hz at -3db, which means usable sound down to about 60hz or a bit lower. But they still sound fine -

    DEMO: Rotel RA-1570 + Q Acostic 3020 Bookshelf


    There are all speakers with very high reputations in their price range. I don't think you can go wrong with any of them.

    Though I understand the circumstances, this is something of a mistake. You are choosing Form over Function. The proper way to do this is to find the speakers that do the job you need done, then make the space fit the speaker - Function over Form.

    But I do understand how space can be limited. The only advice I would give on this front is don't become a slave to one way of thinking. There may be solutions that you are simply not seeing at the moment.

    I gave you several examples of Internet Radio, just listen to a sample of them and judge for yourself. I frequently listen to JANGO, and the compression is clear. The music sounds loud at any volume level which is a sign of dynamic range compression. But it still sounds good.

    From what I have heard from other people, while DAB/DAB+ if functional, it sounds worse than the analog broadcast it replaced. It didn't have to be that way, but they made choices that compromised the sound. So, much like Internet Radio, DAB/DAB+ are functional, but not near CD Quality.

    That said, I remember many smokey happy night listening to AM radio which has terrible fidelity. Sometimes you listen to the equipment and sometimes you listen to the music. The music always sounds good.

    Perhaps in some subtle way, but generally they send out the sound they received. They don't intentionally alter it in any way. But keep in mind you can spend Thousands on a DAC, I'm not sure why anyone would, but you certainly can. Good quality USB-Only DACs run from about £75 up to perhaps £250. Though the low cost bargain USB DAC found on Amazon can still sound good, and at a very modest price. You have to work within your budget, if a £25 DAC is the best you can afford, then you get a £25 DAC and get by until your fortunes increase and you can get something better.

    The Audioquest Dragonfly USB-DACs are pretty well regarded, and not cheap but modestly priced at these things go -

    AudioQuest DragonFly Black USB Digital Audio Converter - DACs - AV Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists

    AudioQuest DragonFly Red USB Digital Audio Converter - DACs - AV Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists

    The Dragonfly RED is a bit expensive, you can get a full multi-input DAC including USB for a similar price -

    Cambridge Audio DACMAGIC 100 (Black)

    Cambridge Audio DACMAGIC 100 (Silver)

    Even the Cambridge USB Only DAC should be pretty good at a modest £29 -

    Cambridge Audio DACMAGIC XS V2 (Black)

    This was first introduced at around £100, and was well reviewed.

    Your choice is driven by your budget. For example, I have £1000 speakers but I know £10,000 speakers will sound SOOOOOO much better, just one problem, I can't afford £10,000 speakers. So, I'm happy with my £1000 speakers, they sound good.

    On my computer I had £150 speakers, now I have the Q Acoustic 3020 which are about £250 and are noticeably better. I would like £500 speakers on my computer ...but... I can't afford them, and my £250 speaker do sound very good.

    We are all limited by our budgets, but we do the best we can within that budget.

    When all choices are good choices within a working budget, it can get hard to make a choice, but at some point you just have to bite the bullet and do just that ... make a choice. The worst that can happen is you end up with a good pair of speakers.

    Your budget is pretty low, for £500 you could do noticeable better than you can for £300, but then for £5000 you could do substantially better still. Again, we are all slaves to our budget. We've all been there.

    Within your budget, though not delivering everything you need, the Denon 41DAB and any of the lower cost speakers suggested will work fine. The lowest cost Streaming options are to either stream by directly connection your computer to the system, or getting something like the Chromecast-Audio. It is only £30, but that is low cost enough to get you by until you can afford something better.

    I believe I listed a couple of different Yamaha system that both give you Network Streaming built in. They have limited inputs, but the Denon 41DAB also has limited inputs. Though both Yamaha systems cost a bit more. Both closer to £400 to £500.

    The way to narrow down system choices is to focus specifically on what you want the system to do, and the components and features you feel the system absolutely needs, and those that would be nice if you can get them. That will narrow down the range of choices.

    Just as we all do, we have to make compromises in your desires to fit our budget.

    Steve/bluewizard
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
  15. markEbaby

    markEbaby
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    thanks for the reply

    if i got a usb dac most id pay probably be £50 so not sure if this good enough and will affect the sound quality making it sound worse?
    going through a usb dac would a £50 usb dac still give out the same sound quailty?
    or will there be a noticable difference in sound being slightly worse?


    id like some options to choose from

    on a hi fi
    1 option i seen is a denon DM41 with either q acoustics 3020i or dali specktor 2 speakers for £350

    is there a hi fi similar in price to this denon DM41 with speakers but with internet radio instead of dab+ as id prefer internet radio i think
    with an optical connection if possible?
    let me know this please


    on connecting hi fi to my computer, my computer does not have an optical connection i dont think any have optical connection

    so i guess i would use the red and white connection to my computer like am doing now with my current hi fi
    do you connect like this also with red and white connection?


    on active computer speakers as this maybe another option for me
    active computer speakers i seen for around £200 have a usb connection
    does a usb connection give better sound quality than the red and white connection or same quality?


    would i actucally be better getting an active computer speaker than a hi fi
    i seen some computer speakers on hifix.co.uk for around £200
    but i dont know if these pc speakers will sound worse than a hi fi speaker of q acoustics 3020 for e.g
    these computer speakers look small may sound tiny not sound good?


    let me know this please to help me further
     
  16. BlueWizard

    BlueWizard
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    In all honest with the level of equipment you will have, I don't think it will make much difference.

    Here is a guy who has Pre-Amp/Amp costing about $3,000, and this is his opinion of the Behringer 202 USB DAC (£24) -

    Behringer U-Control UCA202 DAC Review


    The Behringer is limited to CD quality.

    That fits your budget, and what you do for other equipment depends on the equipment you pick and the connections it has.

    Anything can be done if you have enough MONEY. But we have to work within your limited budget.

    I suggested a Yamaha System that had full Network Streaming built in, but ... it cost over £500.

    You have to work within your budget. There are things you simply can't get for that low budget.

    The lowest cost from a known name brand would be the Yamaha WXAD-10 for about £120, but adding that to your system is going to push your budget well over the stated amount -

    Yamaha WXAD-10


    Yes I connect my computer to my amp using RCA Red/White connectors. My computer (DELL) has a 24b/192k RealTek DAC built onto the Motherboard and for computer use I'm fine with that.


    It depends on the specific speaker. Here is a low cost (sort of) Active Speaker that has - 2xAux, 1xOptical, Bluetooth, and a Remote Control

    Edifier R2000DB 5" Active Bluetooth Speakers w/DAC+Remote - £239 -


    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Edifier-R2000DB-Bluetooth-Bookshelf-Multiple/dp/B07CHQM8B7/

    R2000DB Bookshelf Speaker With Bluetooth, Optical and RCA Inputs

    That would leave with with an addition ~£100 to add to the system. That is almost enough to add the Yamaha WXAD-10 Network Streamer (£120).

    You really have to think seriously about the equipment you have to connect to the Hi-Fi system and the type of connections that equipment has.

    If you have Network Streaming, do you really need a CD Player? Did you ever really need a CD Player?

    Again, you have to work out specifically what you need the equipment to do, the focus on equipment that does that, and in the process determine what you do and don't need.

    Keep in mind, if your computer and/or your Smart Phone have Bluetooth capability, then you can stream via Bluetooth to the Edifier speakers.

    It is all about working out your priorities. Every system is compromised, but we try to compromise things we don't need or care about in favor of things we do need and care about.

    Steve/bluewizard
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
  17. markEbaby

    markEbaby
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    my hi fi is over 15 year old so i need a new system

    i dont need a cd player
    but with no cd player id probably want a usb connection for external flash drive

    bluetooth be good
    dont know if i can get with latest aptx bluetooth think you call it as is newer better bluetooth quality i think


    optical connecton be good incase i want use this

    if you mean by do i have network streaming meaning wireless internet radio
    i do have a tablet but for now i dont think id want to use tablet much because of its battery takes long time to charge
    i can play music on internet while on my computer


    i not sure if to go for a hi fi for say £350 with speakers

    or go with computer speakers instead
    when my computer off though id need something like i think you call it chromecast audio to give me music while computer off connecting to speakers

    dont know if a chromecast audio sound bad
    like would i get better audio quality using a hi fi with internet networking than using a chromecast audio device?


    like i said before 1 option is denon DM41 with speakers for £350
    but i like another option of a hi fi system with internet instead as think i prefer this as you get more stations
     
  18. muljao

    muljao
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    I think you are maybe slightly over thinking the negatives in so far as for 200 pounds any major components of similar spec will likely sound somewhat similar, probably not major room for giant killer components at a price point.

    Lets just say you have your speakers picked out (I am not sure the size of your room, but if its small also look at the cambridge audio sx50 in richer sounds for 100 quid, great little speaker for the money)

    Look at the Yamaha wxad-10. It is about 120 pounds, it connects to wifi and has bluetooth. With this unit you can play music from your laptop without any cables or physical connections over wifi (full quality) or indeed bluetooth. It has all the major streaming services covered, radio, spotify etc and with its DNLA can play from computer or nas drive, lots and lots of options, I cant find a review anywhere that doesn't compliment its sound quality.

    So now you need an amp. Is there anyway you can fit a full size amp in anywhere? If you can I suggest looking at a secondhand av receiver for the remainder of your money (80-100 pounds). Look at the classifieds here. It is often said that a stand alone av receiver will not perform as good as an integrated in the same price range. I have no doubt that is true but if you pick the correct one you can almost be sure that it will perform in stereo mode better than the little Denon inbuilt amplifier. I bought a Marantz SR4400 off a guy here about 2 yrs ago, I think I paid 60 in total including shipping, its set up and working flawlessly in my fathers house. It has a few optical ins (2 or maybe 3), coax ins, a radio built in, set up in stereo connected to a set of q acoustic 2010i speakers, you couldn't ask for more for the money

    Such a receiver with the yamaha and most bases are covered. If you really cant fit an amp that big anywhere maybe look at this and the yamaha

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/AD18-Bluet...aps,121&sr=8-2-spons&smid=A1DHP0NLPO971C&th=1
     
  19. markEbaby

    markEbaby
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    what watt should i be getting?

    the denon DM41 is it total 30w or 60w? this good enough?
    i dont play music loud like am having a party jsut for myself at my computer

    i seen a yamaha that only has like 22w this bad to low?

    does the denon only have a tiny amp?

    for me to get a full amp what are my options? would it cost more?
    a full amp make the hi fi much bigger?

    some options for me to look at be good please
    my budget around £350 with speakers hopefully

    i not bought a hi fi over 15 years i really dont know my stuff regarding all the elements
     
  20. BlueWizard

    BlueWizard
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    Consider this, if you don't need CD, here is a full Network Receiver with lots of power and a DAC for a bit more money than you anticipated, but it should be workable close to your budget -

    Yamaha RN303 Network Recevier, 100w/ch, DAC, MM Phono, DAB/DAB+ - £239 (B-Stock) -

    Manufacturer Refurbished - Yamaha R-N303D Hi-Fi Receiver - Black - S/N: 21 Y038707TV

    Manufacturer Refurbished - Yamaha R-N303D Hi-Fi Receiver - Black - S/N: 21 Y038707TV

    R-N303D - Overview - Yamaha - UK and Ireland

    Allowing £120pr to £150/pr for speakers and you are in the £360 to £390 range.

    You have to make some compromise somewhere to accommodate you low budget.

    If you don't need a CD Player, then the SMSL AD-18 (£123) (previously mentioned and linked to) is a good compact option. It has a DAC and Bluetooth.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/AD18-Stereo-Amplifier-Bluetooth-Subwoofer/dp/B071JN7GXN/

    At that price you could add the Yamaha WXAD-10 (£120) Network Streamer, plus speakers, several suggested, in the roughly £120/pr range and be very close to budget.

    Or, you could get the SMSL AD-18 and just stream from any Bluetooth enabled device (Smart Phone, Computer, whatever).

    You are going to have to make some sacrifice somewhere.

    Steve/bluewizard
     
  21. markEbaby

    markEbaby
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    thanks for the reply

    am just finding it confusing, not ideal getting a network receiver then buying an amplifier seperate
    then to get the speakers all seperate from each other

    would i not get a better deal buying a hi fi bundle system package?

    am i right in saying when you get these hi fi bundle packages you save money on speakers?
    as it looks like to me if you buy the speakers seperate it costs more money?

    i may up my budget to around £400

    can you tell me please what you think of the yamaha R-N402D this a better choice you reckon than the denon DM41?

    also do the Dali Specktor 2 speakers have good clear voice quality? music also?
    and are they as good as the Q acoustics 3020i?

    let me know this please
     
  22. Costello

    Costello
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    Speakers are, probably, the most personal choice in a system so all
    I can do is share my experiences. Then you must listen to your options and let your ears decide; you have to live with them.
    Mission LX2: fantastic speaker for the money. They’re lively, punchy but highly musical.
    Q Acoustics 3020: lovely little speaker. Detailed and smooth yet full-bodied and spacious.
    Q Acoustics 3020i: have a little more presence and sparkle than their predecessor above, and look a lot better, but do cost more
    Dali Spektor 2: lovely midrange and produce great vocals.

    As you can see, there is no simple answer, I’m afraid. I don’t think you can go wrong with any of the above but only you can decide.

    Richer Sounds does some good value packages which are worth a listen:
    Onkyo A9010 (Black) and Q Acoustics Q3020 (Graphite) - nice amp and speaker deal

    Cambridge Audio TOPAZ AM10, CD10 & SX50 (Walnut) - good all in one package

    Denon DM41 DAB (Silver) & Q Acoustics 3010 (Matte Graphite) - mini system package with DAB

    Denon DM41 DAB & DALI SPEKTOR 2 - same here. Both have Bluetooth.

    There’s no straightforward solution. Make a shortlist and audition. Let your ears decide. Go for the system that makes you smile and tap your foot. A good hifi makes you want to listen and listen and listen.
     
  23. BlueWizard

    BlueWizard
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    If you have a Network Receiver why would you need to buy an Amplifer? A Receiver is a Radio, Pre-Amp, and Amp combined.

    Yes you can frequently get a better deal in a package, but if you buy a whole system of separates for a single dealer, then may give an additional discount.


    In my opinion, for the type of system I like, I would not consider the DM41. The RN303 and the RN402 are exceptional bargains. You get lots of features at a very low price.

    I provided a link to Yamaha, you can look up both the RN303 and the RN402 and see all the features. At the link I provided for the RN303, you get full network streaming, Phono, DAC, DAB/DAB+ Radio but no Sub-Out, but there are other ways to connect a Sub.

    I personally do not consider mini-amps to be very good value. I can see how they serve some people sometimes, but they are not for me unless I am in desperate circumstances.

    These are both good companies with very long term reputations that's about the best I can say. I have heard the Q Acoustic 3020 and provided a video review. The bass is not that deep, but on my computer YouTube and Music sound fine. But, my main system is considerably bigger with deeper bass, but it also cost me substantially more money.

    The Dali Spektor 2 are £200/pr with a bass response of 54hz and 5.25" Bass Drivers.

    DALI SPEKTOR 2 Walnut Bookshelf Speakers (Pair) - Bookshelf Speakers - AV Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists

    I've not heard the Spektor, but based on DALI's reputation I would expect good results.

    Though I suspect the RN402 and the Dali Spektor 2 will take you considerably over the stated budget. -

    Yamaha R-N402D Black Stereo Hi-Fi Receiver w/ MusicCast - Streaming / Networking - AV Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists

    That combination is about £500, which is still a bargain considering what you get, but it is not £350.

    The Yamaha RN303 B-Stock is £240 and the Q Acoustic 3020 (not "i") are £120 for a total of £360. That's very close to your budget. The Q Acoustics 3020 are also smaller than the newer 3020i. I think I have posted the dimensions.

    Keep in mind, I did NOT search for best prices, I simply went to the first place that I knew had the product. You could find better value, perhaps, if you shop around.

    Yes, Richer Sounds and others do have nice packages, but you have to ask yourself if those packages do what you need done. Based on my best guess assessment ... they do not.

    Steve/bluewizard
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  24. markEbaby

    markEbaby
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    thanks for your everyones reply

    bluewizard you say "I personally do not consider mini-amps to be very good value"

    is the denon DM41 is a mini amp i guess it prob is?

    also the yamaha R-N402D and RN303 are these mini amps also?

    if so have you linked me any better bigger amps? soz as not sure

    let me know please
     
  25. BlueWizard

    BlueWizard
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    Keep in mind I acknowledge there is a time and place for Mini-Amps like this. I just personally would never (probably) Be in that time or place.

    Look at this link -

    Denon RCD-M41 Black Micro Hi-Fi System w/ Bluetooth - Mini Systems - AV Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists

    Just above the white area on the screen, you will see a side-ways list of categories -

    Home - By Type - Mini Systems - Denon RCD-M41 Black Micro Hi-Fi System w/ Bluetooth

    (W x D x H) 210mm x 308mm x 115mm

    Weight: 4kg


    The Yamaha are full sized amp, as a look at any photo would indicate -

    Yamaha R-N303D Black Hi-Fi Receiver w/ MusicCast - Streaming / Networking - AV Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists

    R-N303D - Overview - Yamaha - UK and Ireland

    (W x H x D) 435 x 141 x 340 mm

    Weight: 7.2 kg


    The Yamaha also has 100w/ch of power to 8 ohms, the Denon DM41 is about 22w/ch to 8 ohms. That's quite a difference.

    Now realistically the Yamaha RN303 is not the best amp, not for that low price and all those feature, but it is a good high-value amp for someone on a very low budget. But note, Peter Tyson has a limited number of the RN303 B-Stock at reduced prices. However. AudioVisualOnLine is only about £10 more, and there are many other sources you can check.

    Again, focus on what you specifically want the amp to do, then seek out amps that do that thing. The RN303 has Network Stream, and a DAC, so pretty versatile for under £250, and you have several speakers to choose from that will bring your system in close to your stated £350 budget. You many not be able to hit it exactly, but you can come very close.

    The Yamaha RN303 B-Stock is £240 and the Q Acoustic 3020 (not "i") are £120 for a total of £360.

    Double your budget and you will have lots of choices, but the limited budget also limits the range of possibilities you have.

    Think about what you NEED.
    Think about what you WANT.
    Think about what you are willing to compromise to get some other aspect that you want.


    I'm trying to get you as close as possible to the things you implied you needed from a system.

    But, the final decision is up to you. Again, focus on what you need the amp to do. There are lots of great low-cost amps out there, but most of those do not do what you implied you needed done.

    Steve/bluewizard
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
  26. markEbaby

    markEbaby
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    is thers something like the yamaha R-N402D but smaller thats no more expensive

    i want it either dab radio or internet radio

    dont need bluetooth but would not mind having it

    want the same connections like optical
    id prob prefer usb over cd player as cd players can brake

    problem with the yamaha R-N402D its really wide for my table

    i dont want the width to be no more than 280mm, 300mm width be max

    i wasn interested in the yamaha but its big for my set up unfortunately

    am aware there is a denon DM41
    but id rather have usb connection than have cd player
     
  27. markEbaby

    markEbaby
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    if i got a hi fi with the dali spektor 2 spakers

    would i be right in saying i get no speaker cables as this what it looks like

    what speaker cabes do i get, good quality
     
  28. BlueWizard

    BlueWizard
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  29. BlueWizard

    BlueWizard
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    Unless I am mistaken, the RN402 is about £300. That doesn't seem to fit your budget.

    Yamaha R-N402D Silver Stereo Hi-Fi Receiver w/ MusicCast - Streaming / Networking - AV Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists

    From the same source, the RN303D is about £250 -

    Yamaha R-N303D Black Hi-Fi Receiver w/ MusicCast - Streaming / Networking - AV Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists

    Unless I am mistaken, you said your budget was about £350 to at most £400.

    If you have expanded your budget, let us know.

    As to the size of the amp ...yes, REAL amps are large... but that's also how they sound. Tiny amps sound tiny.

    I'm doing the best I can to fit your budget and get you the best system possible. If you want to double your budget, then we will have a who range of options.

    Though I don't know fit this deal is still available, but this source lists the very substantial Marantz M-CR611 all-in-one amp - CD, Network, Radio, etc..., and about 40w/ch to 50w/ch - £250 -

    Marantz MCR611 Melody Media Network Hifi System Green White M-CR611

    These are classified as mini-amps but they are not exactly tiny -

    HxWxD = 292 x 111 x 305 mm

    Other that the other amps I have recommend, you will not do better than the Marantz M-CR611 -

    Marantz UK | M-CR611 Melody Media

    This is a discontinued amp, the new version is selling for about £600, and at other locations, this amp is selling for closer to £400.

    Steve/bluewizard
     
  30. markEbaby

    markEbaby
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    on the speaker cable 15m seems really long there shorter lengths?
    should i be spending £15 on cables what the right price?

    i may buy from richer sounds they sell good cables?

    i seen a deal on the yamaha RN402D with speakers for £400 but its to wide

    so i may have to go higher in price
    £450 for the marantz
     

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