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what signal?? newbie in need of advice before going crazy!

Discussion in 'Cables & Switches' started by gariba, Jan 12, 2005.

  1. gariba

    gariba
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    Hi all,
    I don't know whether this is the place for questions like this, but here it goes:

    I got a Philips LX3000D (Home Theatre in a box) bought in Brazil (no SCART out, just CHINCH/RCA, S-VIDEO and PbPrY out). The system set-up offers these options under "TV format" (video out):
    - Auto, NTSC, PAL

    Enlightened by a post by LV426, I imagined this meant the player would perform a true NTSC to PAL convertion (colour, lines and freq.).

    The player also offers the possibility of setting-up the video out signal:
    - CVBS / S-VIDEO or CVBS / YPRPB SCART

    I connected the player to a SONY KV X21TD telly, using the CHINCH / Composite out and a CHINCH to SCART converter I borrowed from my Playstation 2. I only got B&W picture, and I tried all the set-ups possible. There are two SCART sockets at the back of the TV, I tried both and got only B&W.

    Now, I got another smaller TV (Sony KV M1450D), that has only one SCART. Amazinlgy this one showed colour picture using exaclty the same cable, and the system set-up for PAL. Changing the video signal-out doesn't change anything.

    I assumed the first TV didn't understand the composite signal it was receiving from the player (???), so I got myself a PbPrY to SCART cable. Very well, when I used this cable, there was no picture at all, in either one of the SCART sockets!
    Then I used the same cable on the smaller TV, and got a vertically "running" picture (looks out of frequency).

    I imagine, now, that my player is outputting PAL60 and not true PAL. But if this is so, how come the small TV can display it's composite signal properly? And if it does that for the composite signal, why doesn't it work with the component signal?

    More: if the signal is PAL60, is it possible that the first TV is able to form the picture in B&W, via composite signal, and no picture at all via component? Doesn't make sense to me...

    Can anyone help, please??? :lease:

    Thanks a million,
    Gabriel

    ~~~~~~~~~~

    latter additions:
    - my Playstation 2 (PAL) works fine with the big TV set;
    - the manual for my DVD player says "output video formats: NTSC, PAL-G, PAL-B"
    Thanks!
     
  2. Reiner

    Reiner
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    What DVD (PAL or NTSC) were you using and what did you set the output of the DVD player to?

    Looks like the small TV can understand PAL60 and receives the signal via composite (CVBS) only, i.e. no S-Video supported.

    A B&W picture via composite (CVBS) or S-Video usually indicates a PAL/NTSC issue.
    Was the output at the DVD player connected to the first TV set to NTSC or PAL and what disc did you play? (see same question above)

    Scart typically carries composite (CVBS), S-Video and RGB. YPrPb is YUV (aka Component) and it's not compatible to RGB, so I am not surprised you didn't see anything. Only few TVs support YUV via Scart (e.g. Loewe) but it's an exception really.

    Note: technically speaking RGB is a component signal, too, but the term "component" is usually used for YUV/YPrPb/YCrCb only.

    Based on that I assume the Scart on the smaller TV is RGB capable and receives the component (YUV) signal via that. Since RGB and YUV are not compatible it results in the effect described.

    That is most likely correct, a true conversion (to PAL50) is more complicated and found on very few DVD players only.

    Given that the big TV shows a steady B&W picture I think this is still a NTSC/PAL issue, both TVs seem to be able to handle 60Hz.

    As touched upon above none of the TVs does support component (YUV), so you are limited to composite (CVBS) or S-Video.
     
  3. gariba

    gariba
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    wow Reiner, that's really helpful, thanks a lot for your time!

    As for your first question, I tried basically everything: going from the DVD using both a Chinch and a S-Video cable (the S-video I tried yesterday), to either SCART1 and SCART2 on the TV. In all these cases, I tried setting the DVD to output PAL or NTSC signal, and S-Video or YPRPB/Scart format.

    Some 16 combinations, is that it?... :zonked:

    I was not playing any DVD, I was just seeing the "set-up" screen of the DVD, which is coloured. On the small TV is ok (only when the DVD is set to output PAL), on the big one I only get B&W.

    I think you're right to say the DVD is outputting PAL60, and that both TVs can deal with it - otherwise I wouldn't expect to get a steady image on both.

    What I simply cannot understand is the B&W image on the big TV...

    I tested something else: connected my laptop to the big TV, using a S-Video cable with a S-Video TO SCART adapter. I set the output signal to either PAL B or G or H, and the picture was always ok, with colour! (Radeon 9000 video card)

    Then I connected exactly the same cable, with the same adapter, to the S-Video out of the DVD and... Black and white again!

    I guess it's just not meant to be... :(

    Anyhow, if you have any idea what could be happening, I'd really love to hear it!

    Thanks again for all the explanations and patience!
    Gabriel
     
  4. Reiner

    Reiner
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    Ok, this is weird. And it seems neither TV can handle NTSC.

    Can you try some DVDs? PAL and NTSC ones? More combinations for you to play with ... :D

    Makes sense since the TV understands PAL.

    It's weird: the TV seems to have S-Video in and but doesn't show color when receiving a signal from the DVD player.
    I would tend to say it's the combination of PAL and 60Hz that is the problem (for the big TV) but given that it can handle PAL (as proven with the PC) and 60Hz (picture is stabel) this doesn't seem logical ...
     
  5. gariba

    gariba
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    so I went and did some more experimentations with my toys.

    I imagined: if the TV cannot hadle PAL60, and if my player is transforming NTSC into PAL60, perhaps I can get a colour image by just playing a PAL DVD disc with no signal conversion (leaving AUTO for video out, on the player set-up). I was wrong...

    I played both NTSC and PAL discs, changing all the settings and cabling combinations I could imagine. Always B&W.

    One funny thing, though: with the player set to NTSC / YPRPB-SCART video out, and conneting the S-Video to the SCART 2 connector of the TV, I got a weird coloured image. Something like extremelly high saturation in reds, colour inversion here and there, completely flickery image.

    So, Reiner, if that gives you any new hint...

    Otherwise, thanks again for your help!

    Cheers,
    Gabriel
     
  6. Reiner

    Reiner
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    Sorry, no more idea except that this must be a rare case of incompability between the player and that big TV.
    If you want to eliminate the TV you could try another player but I am afraid the only choice left is to replace either DVD player or TV (or watch on the small one).
     
  7. gariba

    gariba
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    I'll be moving in the next few months, and I guess it won't be worth to bring the TV - it's a bit old anyway.
    Good excuse (for wife) to get a new one! :rotfl:

    Thanks!
    Gabriel
     

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