1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

What SACD player

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi Stereo Systems & Separates' started by sticker, Apr 15, 2004.

  1. sticker

    sticker
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Messages:
    1,152
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi,
    I'm in the market for a dedicated SACD player, I'm not going to pay silly money for the player so I'm really only up to around £900 max. Two players I have my eyes on are the Sony SCD-XA3000ES and the Sony SCD-XA333ES.
    I've read somewhere, can't remember where, that some SACD players are really a fudge and that only certain ones play SACD as it was truley envisaged, something to do with the internal manipulation of DSD to PCM?

    I know The Beekeeper has looked into SACD in the past (any comments would be most useful Nic ;) ) but what are peoples views of the quality of SACD palyers out there? I should point out that I'm only interested in the multi channel players, not the early 2 channel Sony's/Marantz.

    As a final point what are the players at this price level like at straight forward 2 channel stereo CD replay like?

    Regards
    John
     
  2. alexs2

    alexs2
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,895
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,674
    I think your comments re DSD to PCM conversion apply to some of the cheaper universal players,and certainly not to the higher priced Sony players,but I'm sure Beekeeper will clarify that.

    The more expensive Sony's are generally excellent players,from what little listening I've had,whilst I wait and see which format will win out in the end!

    At the price level you're considering,the CD replay quality is actually pretty good,although not as good as a dedicated CD player at that price level(my opinion only).

    As always,the best way to decide is to get a few home on demo and decide using your own system,and seeing if you can hear the differences first.
     
  3. sticker

    sticker
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Messages:
    1,152
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Ratings:
    +0
    Cheers Alexs2,
    Could you do me a favour please and explain what your Perpetual tech gear does, you have the P1a and the P3?

    cheers
    John
     
  4. alexs2

    alexs2
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,895
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,674
    Certainly....I have both the P1A and P3A.....the latter is basically just a very good DAC,and with the possibility of further upgrading it via a better power supply,and higher spec internals(these are the Monolithic power supply and the Modwright upgrades respectively).
    On it's own the P3A is a good DAC can certainly the equal of anything in the £1000 bracket,but in combination with the P1A it's in a different league altogether.
    The P1A is a DSP based device which upsamples 16bit/44.1kHz CD to 24bit/96kHz resolution,but is different from most other simple upsamplers in using the Sharc DSP to interpolate data into the 16 to 24 bit gaps according to a proprietary algorithm which I wouldn't pretend to understand!

    Whether or not you believe in this sort of thing(and I certainly am not impressed by simple upsampling)the results from this are very good indeed,and not just to my ears,but also those of many respected reviewers and customers.

    It's nearly as good as SACD or DVD-A if properly setup and used with appropriate quality ancillaries,and easily as good as most midrange Wadias or Levinsons,at a fraction of the price...well worth a listen....a lot of the HiFi News reviews recently have compared the combination very favourably with MF,Krell,and other high end DACs.

    Have a look at www.audioreview.com for a few customer reviews,and also www.av123.com for the manufacturers site.

    There is a UK based importer but I can't remember the name for sure...I think it's www.connoiseuraudio.co.uk.
     
  5. sticker

    sticker
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Messages:
    1,152
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Ratings:
    +0
    Thanks Alexs2 for that. Can you tell me how this works with both high-end CD players like a Meriain 508 and a simple DVD player like a Pioneer 656. Would the end results be similar or does the transport make a big difference in its own right? The reason I ask is that currently my main CD player is my Arcam FMJ DV27 but I also have a Marantz CD6000KI and was wonerding if I could source a decent DAC/upsampler and connect that to the SACD player I'm looking at and then change my DVD to a HTPC, I could rationalise my kit and probably save money into the bargin!!

    Regards
    John
     
  6. Ed Selley

    Ed Selley
    AVF Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    10,793
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +3,151
    It will be a struggle to find one for £900 but the Marantz SA17 is the best SACD player I've heard and it is at least as good as a CD6000KI for straight CD replay. It is (so far) the only standalone SACD player that made a strong case for itself that I have heard. Beautifully screwed together as well.
    Ed
     
  7. alexs2

    alexs2
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,895
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,674
    OK....the transport does make a difference,but not as much as you might think,as both the P1A and P3A reclock,and the P1A is ideal for that purpose.
    Transports aside,whilst both accept CD data,neither will accept or pass through any other format currently,so you would have to be careful not to try that!
    If you were contemplating getting one or both of these,I would keep your best transport,and use it simply as that,running it direct into your AV processor from there....an alternative is to use the P1A to upsample/interpolate CD before feeding it into the processor's DACs if theyre good enough to make it worthwhile.

    For a bit of comparison,the P1A/P3A is significantly better than just running the P1A into a Tag AV32R's DACs.
     
  8. sticker

    sticker
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Messages:
    1,152
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Ratings:
    +0
    Thnaks guys for the info, much appreciated.

    Tons, I think the Marantz is a bit outside my price range so that will probably have to fall by the wayside.

    Regards
    John
     
  9. sticker

    sticker
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Messages:
    1,152
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Ratings:
    +0
    OK after a bit more research and demo's I've narrowed it down to
    Sony SCD XA-777ES
    Sony SCD XA-3000ES
    Marantz DV8400

    Only problem is I've yet to hear these back to back, has anyone heard them back to back?

    Regards
    John
     
  10. Ed Selley

    Ed Selley
    AVF Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    10,793
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +3,151
    The 8400 is a good SACD player and no mistake- it is our usual warhorse for multichannel music and is a good ambassador for the format.
    However, have a look on the US Marantz website for the SA8260. A little bird tells me that the "SA8400" (due 3rd quarter 2004) owes more than a little to this machine ;).
     
  11. sticker

    sticker
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Messages:
    1,152
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Ratings:
    +0
    Thanks for the pointer Tons :)

    John
     
  12. Spligsey

    Spligsey
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2003
    Messages:
    2,065
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +137
    John.

    The SCD-XA777ES is a class act SACD wise.
    I've heard this a couple of times & it sounds top dollar.
    Pretty nice on CD's too:)
    Battleship build - i nearly purchased one of them a while ago, but couldn't, coz i was el-skinto.

    I still think the best SACD player i've heard is the Marantz SA-1

    May only be 2 channel - but what a ****ing player that is.

    Adz
     
  13. sticker

    sticker
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Messages:
    1,152
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi Adz,
    Thanks for the pointer, I think that I've found a 777 pretty cheap, still a bit more than I wanted to pay but I might have to just bite the biscuit. I did want to compare it to the 3000ES but so far no luck. I really want to hear them back to back if I can (learnt that lesson a couple of months ago :)).

    Agree with you about the Marantz SA-1, I heard this about 6 months ago and I was astounded, trouble is the price.

    Have you heard either the TEAC DV50 or the Linn Unidisk, outside my price range but interested in your opinion if you have heard them.
    Regards
    John
     
  14. Spligsey

    Spligsey
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2003
    Messages:
    2,065
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +137
    Morning John.

    Haven't had the pleasure of hearing the Unidisk players or the TEAC either. I would've thought both would be top flight.
    TEAC have great reputation in the HiFi world for building top quality transports with VRDS mechanisms which are used by Wadia & Levinson to name a few. Their Esoteric range looks fantastic :cool:
    From what people have said about the Unidisk, then i'm confident that it will be of the highest quality.
    Naturally, both designs would set you back a fair few quid.

    By all accounts, the latest Sony SACD players are supposed to be excellent value. Their ES badged machines have superb build quality.

    Adz
     
  15. sticker

    sticker
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Messages:
    1,152
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Ratings:
    +0
    Thanks again Adz for you help, much appreciated

    John
     
  16. dubai2000

    dubai2000
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I am surprised the Philips 963SA isn't mentioned. Yes, it's a DVD player as well (and that's why I originally bought it), but I am completely surprised (understatement!) by its CD(!)/SACD playback. I suppose it will actually end up as my main digital source....a development not all expected.
    Wolfram
     
  17. NicolasB

    NicolasB
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    5,804
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Emily's Shop
    Ratings:
    +520
    I seem to recall that there are some issues with the Unidisk's bass management with SACD - namely, that there isn't any. But it was a long time ago that I heard that (assuming I didn't imagine it). :)
     
  18. sticker

    sticker
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Messages:
    1,152
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Ratings:
    +0
    Ok I took the plunge and bought a Sony SCD-XA777ES, got it for a good price (I think). :clap:

    Thanks to all for their advice and particularly Bee

    Cheers
    John
     
  19. alexs2

    alexs2
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,895
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,674
    The Unidisk is reviewed in this month's HiFiNews,and seems to come out very well,albeit at quite a price....there is no comment re lack of bass management though.
     
  20. Edgeyboy

    Edgeyboy
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    3,185
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Norfolk
    Ratings:
    +155
    Hi John

    May I ask where you sourced a 777es from ? How much would I expect to pay ?

    Many thanks

    Tom.
     
  21. sticker

    sticker
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Messages:
    1,152
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi Tom,
    I got it from Unbeatable, it was a customer return. When looking around the cheapest I could find them for was around £1,600 ( I got mine considerably cheaper than that though), but the average was £1,750. It seems that a lot of dealers don't have them in stock anymore, I don't know if that is because the 9000 has replaced it. If this is the case then you may be able to get a decent discount.

    Regards
    John
     
  22. mgh0001

    mgh0001
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2005
    Messages:
    483
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    trafford, manchester
    Ratings:
    +3
    i would wait to you have enough for the sony scd-xa9000. ive seen it for £1000 in a store down south. it has no less than 18 d/a converts
     
  23. dynamic turtle

    dynamic turtle
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Messages:
    1,501
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Location:
    Central London
    Ratings:
    +17
    Sticker,

    I recently posted a thread about sacd players. I had initially budgeted £500 and was looking at the Sony 555ES, Marant SA8400 and Pio 868.

    However, after hearing the Sony NS900V (dvd/sacd player from 2002), I thought it best to save myself the best part of £500 and ditch the 555ES.

    Shameless plug over :D

    Still, you've got your 777ES now. Am I jealous! Let us know how it sounds. Shame your running it through an (admittedly, very capable) AV amp. Do you not think it deserves a dedicated valve-based stereo rig instead?

    DT

    And if it doesn't sound any good, you could always bolt some tracks & a turret on it, and use it as a tank. That thing is monstrously well-built.
     
  24. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    17,133
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Ratings:
    +1,277
    Still Gushing DT ;)
     
  25. dynamic turtle

    dynamic turtle
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Messages:
    1,501
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Location:
    Central London
    Ratings:
    +17
    oh yeah, i feel *so* horny - just can't help myself :D
     
  26. sticker

    sticker
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Messages:
    1,152
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi DT
    I've often thought would it would be like through a different amp, particulary a dedicated stereo amp, but I haven't had the time recently having moved countries. I must say though that the 777 is really a very good player and its build is fantastic. It really a shame that there isn't a great SACD catelogue out there and the same as DVD-A, not all are equal............but it is a very good Cd player

    Regards
    John
     
  27. dynamic turtle

    dynamic turtle
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Messages:
    1,501
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Location:
    Central London
    Ratings:
    +17
    There is a pretty good SACD catalogue, if you like classical music (and I do). Less so with rock/pop.

    As I said earlier, it must deserve a quality stereo rig ;)

    DT
     

Share This Page

Loading...