what res is HD DVD outputed at?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by skooby, Aug 25, 2006.

  1. skooby

    skooby
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    hope the title makes sence.

    im thinking of getting a HD DVD player but my pannel will only take res upto 1080i not 1080p, so the player will have to output 1080i.

    so my question is does the player have a native res as it where of 1080p and have to downconvert to interlaced are the films stored at 1080p on the disk. is there less processing in the player if it where to output 1080p.

    and will this downconverting have a visible effect on PQ.

    would an upscalling DVD but better that an HD DVD downconverting.

    Thanks skooby
     
  2. AML

    AML
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    The current HD DVD players only output 720p or 1080i. There are plans for a 1080p player next year.

    All the disks are 1080p but as I said the player doesnt do 1080p so i guess its down converted. But really the only difference is interlace and progressive. The resolution is the same.
     
  3. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    As it comes from a progressive source, if you deinterlace correctly then there should be no difference between an i and p output from the player.
     
  4. skooby

    skooby
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    so so afr all HD player output 720p or 1080i not p as yet though they will in the future.

    as regards a none 1080p pannel the interlaced output from the player (at the moment) is the same reagrdless of the pannel 1080p ablity so it then comes down to the pannels deinterlacing ( or VP) ability.

    so at the moment there is no extra processing that a player needs to do to get a signal into the pannel even if its not a 1080p pannel.

    though in the future the player will output 1080p natively ie no scalling deinterlacing from the player if the pannel accepts 1080p

    Thanks for that info

    Skooby
     
  5. Quickbeam

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    Surely the 'i' output is vertically filtered - otherwise there would be objectionable interline flicker on 1080i native displays (and perhaps on progressive displays as well that use field bob deinterlacing).
     
  6. Avi

    Avi
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    Hi

    I don't follow what is the resolution of "1080i native display"?

    AVI
     
  7. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    I think this may have happened in the past routinely but I am not sure it does anymore. Perhaps Keith knows? I see no signs of it at all.

    For us CRT old timers ;)
     
  8. Quickbeam

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    A 1080p HD-DVD or Blu-ray movie sourced from a genuine 1080p master will have the full vertical resolution present on the disc. However, when downconverting to 1080i a player such as the HD-A1 or BD-P1000 will almost certainly filter the 1080i output to around 800 lines vertically - and there are important technical reasons for doing so.

    In interlaced video, regardless of whether the source is progressive or interlaced, fine details less than two scanlines tall flicker at the field rate, i.e. 25Hz or 30Hz. Anyone viewing on an interlaced display would find this flicker highly objectionable, so the standard practice is to filter out high frequency information to reduce interline flicker on interlaced displays. You can see what happens when there is no filtering if you watch a jpeg slideshow on a standard DVD player connected to a 50Hz 576i CRT. None of my players vertically filter jpegs, and the flicker on the HF detail is quite nasty.

    Given that most HD Ready displays are natively progressive it could be argued that there is no need to reduce the vertical resolution of 1080i. But since 1080i displays such as ALiS plasmas exist these viewers must be catered for. In addition, sub-optimal deinterlacing of unfiltered 1080i may introduce interline twitter on static objects on progressive displays because 'bob' deinterlacing effectively simulates interlace, so there are potential benefits for owners of progressive displays as well. Only people with equipment capable of 1080i inverse telecine will lose out as a result of 1080i filtering. A simple workaround would be to have a vertical filtering switch in the player's display menu which could be turned off by the user, but I'm not aware of any player that supports this feature.

    Interlace filtering is mentioned in the HD-DVD specs. From page 36 of Requirements Specification for HD-DVD Video Application:

    So only a 1080p output can deliver the full vertical resolution of a 1080p source.
     
  9. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    I will ask Amir.
     
  10. Avi

    Avi
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    So how would this work in practice with say the current 1080p Samsung BD players ? I understand this takes the "I" signal from the Broadcom chip (same as Tosh) and then turns it in to "P" signal via a secondary chip. The player is marketed as providing full 1080p output but how is this different from doing the conversion of the "I" at the display end ?

    AVI
     
  11. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    I've seen the masters and can't see any real reduction in res. We take the 1080p24 lines and put them all on the disc. When I see my outputs on the monitors, it depends if the monitor does the flicker reduction, DI/IVTC, or nothing, which I've seen as well. However, the HDMI Toshiba out to my QC display shows me what quality/hard work I put into the content. So I'm very happy in that respect. I plead the 5th on the Sammy...

    Cjplay.
     
  12. Quickbeam

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    I am not disputing that a 1080p24 encoded feature will have 1080 lines of resolution on the disc. The question is what happens when 1080p is downconverted to 1080i by the scaling chip in the player. I cannot see how this can be done without filtering for interlace, for the reasons stated above.

    I don't think there would be any difference assuming both ends support 1080i inverse telecine. If there is an interlacing stage in the player I doubt the 1080p output will deliver the full 1080 lines of resolution.
     
  13. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    So the question is really whether or not the vertical filtering is applied and how detrimental it is in practice to the image assuming a 100% correct deinterlace on the display.

    Certainly this isn't a difference you are readily going to be able to notice on anything less than a 1080p panel (which are a bit thin on the ground) and as we don't have a reliable player of either format that provides a true 1080p output ...its going to be a while before any general consensus of opinion is reached.

    As to the whole vertical filtering issue itself...I'm not entirely convinced its still an issue as I've had a hell of a time actually finding out if its even applied to interlaced masters these days,let alone what the internals of the players do (apart from the samsung which mushes anyway).


    Jury is still out.
     

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