What percentage difference would you give.... ?

electrosmith

Active Member
Hi there bass dudes,

If you were to compare two SVS PB10's against one SVS PB13 Ultra, how much of a percentage difference would there be between them in terms of perforamce, with leaving price/features out of the equation.

Many thanks.
 

Hounder

Novice Member
No that would be like comparing Man U and Spurs:D.
 

Ian J

Banned
I assume that means there is still a massive difference.
Yes - The PB-10 is an excellent sub and two would be even better but they are no match for the PB 13 Ultra.

Having done the football analogy we'll now move to adverts and say that if Carling made subwoofers they would have made the PB 13 Ultra
 

electrosmith

Active Member
Which would offer the most in performance, buying another three PB10's for second hand which would mean I would have 4 PB10's or one PB13.

Space is not a issue. Cost for both options works out to be the same.
 

Ian J

Banned
Buying more and more PB10's would give increased headroom and lower distortion the more you tack on but they would still not go as low as the PB13.

The other thing to factor in is that multiple subs aren't as easy to integrate as a single sub and if you get it wrong you could end up with less bass instead of more
 

IronGiant

Moderator
To extend the beer analogy, you can assume Heineken make the PB13 and as such it "Reaches the Parts Other PBeers Cannot Reach"
 

sdb123

Distinguished Member
Which would offer the most in performance, buying another three PB10's for second hand which would mean I would have 4 PB10's or one PB13.

Space is not a issue. Cost for both options works out to be the same.
With either option, EQ would be a must to enable the best performance. Have you taken that into consideration?
 

electrosmith

Active Member
Not really considered EQ as I didnt need it for my PB10-NSD to sound right in my room. I know adding another subwoofer shouldnt cause any problems either due to past experiances, but anything beyond 2 subwoofers then I'd be walking into unknown territory. To be honest I would most likly stop at two subwoofers or possible three.
 

Member 96948

Distinguished Member
I think it would be more like an Impreza v F430. 95% there over most of the way, but it's the extra 5% that makes the Ferrari special and therefore lusted over.

In the interests of being boring though, you can actually quantify the differences between two PB10s against one PB13 by referring to the usual online resources.

Assuming that the two PB10s were co-located in order to achieve a near 6dB gain in performance, it's not too much of jump to simply compare the results of the two subs. Simply comparing the 90dB plot for the PB10, against the 95dB plot for the PB13 as the two PB10s would deliver approx 95dB performance with each one running at 90dB.

The results against the PB13 running a 20Hz tune:

Max output at 20Hz: 2xPB10=101dB, PB13=107dB. That means four PB10s would be required to match the output.

Max output at 15Hz: 2xPB10=89dB, PB13=99dB.

Running the PB13 in 15Hz tune at no cost to the 20Hz figures lifts the 15Hz output to a staggering 103dB requiring eight PB10s.:eek: The PB10 has no other tunes and I'm ignoring 'sealed' as a tune as it's pointless.

THD @ 20Hz @ 100dB: 2xPB10=10%. PB13=5%. Four PB10s required to match.
THD @ 80Hz @ 100dB: 2xPB10=11%. PB13=2.5%. Eight for a match. Gulp.

The differences at 20Hz may not be so noticeable due to the human ears sensitivity at such frequencies, but it certainly will be at 80Hz.

So the advantages of multiple PB10s. Research by Harman Group published in a white paper showed that significant equalisation of room modes could be achieved across a wider area if a sub were positioned at the centre point of each wall assuming a regular room, requiring four PB10s anyway.

The down side(s)?

You would then only achieve a 3dB increase in performance for each doubling of the number of PB10s, so eight PB10s co-located at the mid points would be required to match the raw performance of one PB13 where only four were required above and thus sixteen to match where eight were previously required.

You could keep adding PB10s until you go blue in the face, but the PB13 will go deeper, period. The PB10s could be equalised to deliver a similar depth, but to achieve a flat frequency response at 15Hz would require reducing the rest of the frequency to be down tuned by about 8dB. By now you'd be better off selling your house and living in PB10s to gain the performance back.

By the time you've bought four PB10s, you could buy two PB13s and that would require all of the above totals of PB10s to be doubled again. NOOOOoooooooooo! BTW, I'm taking into account the cable bill in that calculation.;)

Any corrections to my 'back of fag packet' calculations gratefully received, but there'd still be no point; Buy one PB13 or two if you're a mentalist with no neighbours.

Russell
 

IronGiant

Moderator
I preferred my Heineken analogy :D

Dave
 

badbob

Banned
How my Rel Quakes would it take to equal PC Ultra 13? :D From what I understand you are able to equal dB output and % distortion of a better sub, but you won't be able to get a response down to low frequency of the bigger sub.
 

Member 96948

Distinguished Member
Actually, being sealed they roll-off very slowly so it would be theoretically possible, but the number required would be directly equal to the number of people gullible enough to have bought one in the last five years.

Russell
 

electrosmith

Active Member
Russ, thanks for that lenghty insight. I've just discovered though that the PB13 weighs a massive 70KG's!!!!!!!!! I thought it weighed somewhere between 30-40KG but 70KG is just insanly to heavy for me to start lugging it about in different postions. And to think I was even contemplating getting two of them if I were to get one.
 

angelislington

Active Member
Russ, thanks for that lenghty insight. I've just discovered though that the PB13 weighs a massive 70KG's!!!!!!!!! I thought it weighed somewhere between 30-40KG but 70KG is just insanly to heavy for me to start lugging it about in different postions. And to think I was even contemplating getting two of them if I were to get one.
You could use Russ' infamous rug/blanket method. Underneath, of course :D
 

Member 96948

Distinguished Member
Of course, the clue could be in the 'helen' part of helenonn.:rolleyes:

PB10s are no easier to move unless you have arms like an ape, like wot I do.

Russell
 

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