What Music License Is Needed Please?

Solomon Grundy

Distinguished Member
My wife's Mum owns a hairdressers salon and listens to Magic Radio during the day. She has already paid around £60 for something from a company called PRS but has now received a bill out of the blue from something called PPL which is another £70. I don't understand how this all works. Does she need to pay them both or can she just tell them to get lost? It seems like quite a lot of money to pay just to listen to an oldies music station.
 

imightbewrong

Distinguished Member
No idea, but google suggests both.

What is the difference between a PRS and PPL licence? Do they apply to students' halls of residence? What about offices? > JISC Legal > ManageContent

google said:
If recorded music is audible in a public space at your institution, you need both licences.

(it's a university site, but I think it's general information)

It does suggest that if the customers listen through headphones, a license isn't required since it isn't 'audible in a public space' :)
 

IronGiant

Moderator
Sounds like one of those calendar advertising scams, selling a business something they don't need. She needs a PRS to play a radio, and a PPL to play recorded music, like CDs. I don't think she needs both just to have the radio on. There's a thread about it on moneysaving expert, do a search on there for shop radio license.

Edit: if IMBW is correct, which he might be: ), that's shocking: (

Edit: mp3s, iTunes and possibly internet radio require a PPL. Old fashioned radio doesn't, although I'm sure any call centre agent will encourage you to think it does.
 
Last edited:

imightbewrong

Distinguished Member
the money will not go to any of the artists as they have no idea what you were listening to so it is yet another tax on top of every other tax/duty out there.

That depends on the license - if they have to specify 'magic radio' for example, then magic radio is already paying, so they would/could put the money in their pot for distribution.

If it's just a free-for-all, then it would be more random :)
 

IronGiant

Moderator
If the radio is only playing the cricket commentary you only, need a PRS. What is less clear is what happens if the radio station plays recorded music. It might, or might not need a PPL and the PPL relies on the fact you'd rather pay up than risk a fine. So the safest option maybe to ditch the radio and only play recorded music. :suicide:
 

Solomon Grundy

Distinguished Member
The moneysavingexpert forum is still confusing. It all seems like a total rip off to me. Surely Magic pays their royalties and broadcasting whatnots so the Everly Brothers get some money?
 

imightbewrong

Distinguished Member
The moneysavingexpert forum is still confusing. It all seems like a total rip off to me. Surely Magic pays their royalties and broadcasting whatnots so the Everly Brothers get some money?

Yes, but that is for private listenting. In effect, your mother-in-law is profiting from playing the radio, so arguably some of that profit should be shared with the artist.
 

Solomon Grundy

Distinguished Member
I don't think having a radio on generates more than £130 a year in revenue...does it?
 

IronGiant

Moderator
Unfortunately, it may still be legal to charge her:thumbsdow
 

Solomon Grundy

Distinguished Member
Yeah, so it seems...twice! Makes the license fee seem like a good deal! Costs more to have Magic on in your shop than it does to have all the BBC goodness in your home.

Scammers.
 

imightbewrong

Distinguished Member
I don't think having a radio on generates more than £130 a year in revenue...does it?

How many hair-cuts is that? Four? Five? Doesn't take many people to go somewhere else because your place is 'dull' to make that back.

Just being devil's advocate :)
 

Sniper Ash6

Distinguished Member
How many hair-cuts is that? Four? Five? Doesn't take many people to go somewhere else because your place is 'dull' to make that back.

Just being devil's advocate :)
Dependent on prices it could be more than 15 if they have haircuts like I do - shaved to a no. 2.
 

Solomon Grundy

Distinguished Member
It's the only hairdressers in the village and services all the old dears, has done for the last 30 years. Dunno if Magic made the difference and convinced them not to take a bus somewhere else for their perm.
 

unique

Moderator
My wife's Mum owns a hairdressers salon and listens to Magic Radio during the day. She has already paid around £60 for something from a company called PRS but has now received a bill out of the blue from something called PPL which is another £70. I don't understand how this all works. Does she need to pay them both or can she just tell them to get lost? It seems like quite a lot of money to pay just to listen to an oldies music station.

she needs both PPL and PRS licenses. the PPL gives money to the copywrite holders (ie. the written music), and the PRS gives money to the performers

what's the difference? well a band who wrote and performed a song will get both royalties. if someone covered a song, then the PPL will pay the writer and PRS the person who covered the song

of course in many cases the rights will be held by limited companies

why should you pay? a cd/record/tape/dvd or tv/radio broadcast gives you the right for personal listening/watching, but not the right to loan/rent or let other people watch/listen in public/the workplace. in a shop environment your customers are being entertained by the music, or likewise the workers in a workplace, or punters in a club/pub/venue

if you don't pay they will take you to court. the best way around it is to take out the license now, and the won't pursue you for any time you've not had the license in the past, so you can save a few quid that way

alternatively she could opt not to play any music/radio/tv in the shop and not pay the fee going forward, but she would soon find out how valuable playing music in a shop is to the staff and customers
 

imightbewrong

Distinguished Member
a cd/record/tape/dvd or tv/radio broadcast gives you the right for personal listening/watching, but not the right to loan/rent or let other people watch/listen in public/the workplace. in a shop environment your customers are being entertained by the music, or likewise the workers in a workplace, or punters in a club/pub/venue

One can lend one's own privately purchased dvd/cd though right? Just not rent it.
 

unique

Moderator
One can lend one's own privately purchased dvd/cd though right? Just not rent it.

not legally at the moment, although no-ones ever been taken to court over it. the law is being updated soon to allow reasonable use in the UK, and ripping cds etc to mp3s which is also illegal

if you read pretty much any cd or dvd it has a warning about unauthorised use, including lending and copying
 

imightbewrong

Distinguished Member
unique said:
not legally at the moment, although no-ones ever been taken to court over it. the law is being updated soon to allow reasonable use in the UK, and ripping cds etc to mp3s which is also illegal

if you read pretty much any cd or dvd it has a warning about unauthorised use, including lending and copying

One can be gifted away though, and gifted back. Pretty similar to lending :)
 

Solar

Well-known Member
So why don't those little ***** with 15" subs in their Corsas need a license to play music loud enough for the neighbourhood to hear? But yet the OP's missus needs one to play inside her workplace.
 

Deadringers

Member
So why don't those little ***** with 15" subs in their Corsas need a license to play music loud enough for the neighbourhood to hear? But yet the OP's missus needs one to play inside her workplace.

Because she is a law abiding member of society...therefore her and the rest of us have to pay for those little antisocial ***** :)

now stop getting out of line, step back in and keep paying your taxes no questions asked ;)
 

Knyght_byte

Novice Member
So the answer is, to play the radio in a backroom that is listed as nothing to do with the main busines. Just make sure the interconnecting door is made of a material that allows sound to permeate without muffling (ie speaker grill cloth)...

If there is no connection business-wise, then they wouldnt be able to enforce it....otherwise, people would have to be fined/charged for playing music from cars with the windows down, playing music in the garden at home etc as other people could hear it....
 

unique

Moderator
So the answer is, to play the radio in a backroom that is listed as nothing to do with the main busines. Just make sure the interconnecting door is made of a material that allows sound to permeate without muffling (ie speaker grill cloth)...

If there is no connection business-wise, then they wouldnt be able to enforce it....otherwise, people would have to be fined/charged for playing music from cars with the windows down, playing music in the garden at home etc as other people could hear it....

Small Business Support, UK Business Advice & Small Business Help

you would still need a license to do that
 

whatsupdoc

Novice Member
This might be just me being old and confused but I'm sure I read recently that the PRS (may they rot in hell) were changing their name. Could it be that just the one licence is required and the confusion has arisen over a name change?
 

ldoodle

Distinguished Member
I can't add anything but what's the difference between using a radio to play radio station broadcasts, thus requiring a PRS license and blasting your car radio at full blast with the windows open for example, or plugging speakers into your iPod to listen to at the beach

Would you need a PRS and/or PPL licenses for the latter 2? What actually constitutes 'broadcasting' the content? How can you stop other people from listenting to what you playing in the latter 2?
 

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