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What Mains Lead /Interconnect do you use (AV32R/100X5R)?

Discussion in 'TAG McLaren Audio Owners' Forum' started by rdhir, Jul 31, 2005.

  1. rdhir

    rdhir
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    Hello,

    Although there is a cable forum which I have been reading and I think I will now make my own mains cable and save the money I was going to spend on a Van Den Hul Mainstream on a proper mains regeneration system...

    I was kind of wondering what people were using for a mains lead and what they thought they had got best results from?

    I would also like to know what people use as the pre/power amp interconnect?

    Cheers

    Rajiv
     
  2. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    Ref mains lead, I use the one that came in the TAG box........ :D Nothing wrong with it at all..... As for interconnects I make my own, decent connectors and proper spec cable is all you need....
     
  3. edward

    edward
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    I'm using standard TAG mains cable. Processor to Power Amp interconnects are fancy silver and copper things from Better Cables. Frankly, I'm not sure they make a difference (to my ears anyway) but their silver and copper cable definitely does make a visible difference in a 5 metre run from video processor to projector.
     
  4. laalves

    laalves
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    All my hifi stuff is using the standard AC cables.

    As to interconnects, I've made my own with Neutrik RCA and Trichord Research cable, except for the AV32R-to-250x3R connection, where I'm using Neutrik XLR + Neutrik RCA + some sort of Belden balanced professional studio cable.

    As to speaker cable, QED Silver Anniversary.

    Luis

    PS: I'm not sure you will find many cable addicts in this part of the forum. As far as I've read, people here tend to believe more in the inhards of their black (or silver) boxes than in the cable runs.
     
  5. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    If the inside (PSU) is built properly then cables (mains cables) should make bugger all difference unless they are taking something away.......

    Edward, is that a subtle hint for some 5Mtr cables then mate?
     
  6. Raphie

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    I use LAPP offlex, with Furutech and Wattgate connectors, this cable is thicker 3*2.5mm and is better insulated/shielded. In return i got a bit brighter highs and a bit better bass response (but differences are minimal)
     
  7. laalves

    laalves
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    I'm sure one day I'll stumble into the scientific :lesson: explanation for this ;)
     
  8. edward

    edward
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    I should be embarrassed to admit this but I've been through worse emotions in relation to them: I had to buy a complete second set of Better Cables, including an 8m long silver and copper BNC-BNC RGB cable, because USPS lost them and they weren't insured - about $700 worth. They turned up 2 months later and were supposed to be returned but that didn't happen either. I've put them away somewhere safe and can't remember where.

    Hopefully, I'll upgrade the video side before the current cable croaks.
     
  9. Kevinc

    Kevinc
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    The mains cables to my stereo rack are highly visible as I run them all from two banks of separate mains outlets about four feet either side of the rack. About a year ago it was pointed out to me (WAF) that they would be less conspicuous against the wall/baseboard/maple floor if they were all WHITE rather than black. As I'm not aware that the color of mains cables has yet been shown to make any difference :D after saving up for some time I went to that well known AV dealer Home Depot (if you don't have those in the UK then I guess equivalents would be B&Q or Homebase?) and bought a length of the same spec three-core 14AWG SJT cable supplied with my Bryston amp, but in white, and replaced all the leads with that. The TAG leads supplied are 16AWG. As the back of my DVD32FLR is highly visible under the glass top shelf of my Quadraspire rack I used large Marinco IEC connectors which look Really Big and therefore impress my friends and are also apparently indestructible if they are accidentally run over by an Abrams tank (though I can't say whether or not being run over would change the sound). Mains plugs are also Marinco for what it's worth.

    This change has proved highly popular with my other half and for a total outlay of about $40 for the full set I therefore think that is a great upgrade, though I cannot hear any difference whatsoever in sound. I'd like to add some techflex to complete the mega-bucks look, but it's nice to have somethink to save up for. Seriously, it did give me the opportunity to ensure that the IEC connectors all receive the mains the same way round (as discussed in other threads about european power outlets), something which was not possible with the two-pin plugs supplied by TAG which could be inserted in the wall outlet either way round - this must be a good idea in principle.

    As for interconnects, well once I first saw how nice Canare RCA plugs are compared with everything else, I became an addicted Canare nut. There are lots of people out there with Canare termination tools to make them up for you cheap and even cover them with techflex so they look like they cost as much as the ones with black boxes and/or batteries stuck on them...
     
  10. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    :smashin: :smashin: :smashin: 10/10 post, made me smile as well......
    Canare connectors (the RCA type) do have the advantage of almost being 75 Ohm, I've not seen another RCA that comes anwhere close to 75 Ohm, now whether that makes any difference or not I won;lt get drawn into but I've always said that proper termination adn proper spec cable is all you need..... BTW, I have a Canare crimp tool set and even Canare cable used in my setup these days.....
     
  11. laalves

    laalves
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    Graham, do pardon my ignorance, but how does one measure impedance of a terminator or even a cable, for that matter?

    BTW, have you any idea of what is the impedance of the Neutrik RCA plugs? I use these because they look the part, are not particularly expensive (I believe 15 euros/pair), establish ground first when connecting, and break it last when unconnecting, which seems a nice enough feature to have, particularly when switching stuff on and off the rack to try out....

    Luis
     
  12. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    Its basically a mechanical thing with connectors with physical sizes of the pins to shield being one factor and the similar relationship between the conductors in cables, the rest is magic i'm afraid and length naturally......... ;) I am sure I can sleep on it and come up with something better in the morning but as I've been here 13 hours I'm off to bed.......
     
  13. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    By the way we use Neutrik RCA's as well and thousands of XLR's...... Don't get hung up on it, it is the first step to the dark side......
     
  14. laalves

    laalves
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    Well, I figured that much, but as to measurement, I was expecting to read something like inputing a calibrated and well known sinal in one end and, using very sensitive instruments, measuring it on the other end.

    From the resulting amplitude and timeshift of the signal, one should be able to calculate the resistive, capacitive and inductive parts of the impedance.

    This is what I came up thinking about it this afternoon...

    Luis
     
  15. laalves

    laalves
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    Not really, I wouldn't consider changing them for the next 20 years or so ;) ;) ;) , unless they all go the way one of them did, and manage to break the centre pin inside one of the sockets of my 100x5R.... It's actually still there, I'll have to get my pin vice and drill it a bit to a hold of the broken pin and pull it out...

    Luis
     
  16. rdhir

    rdhir
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    thanks for the info gents. I wanted to ask here as I reckon you would be less tweak obsessed.
     
  17. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    Or you could just read the manufacturer spec, proper broadcast cable specs are almost believable and as I said Canare come closest to a proper 75 Ohm connector (nominal naturally).
    I've dug out a rough guide if your up for reading the incredibly dull.... See attached file....
     

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  18. laalves

    laalves
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    Well, quite interesting reading, actually.

    Two nice to know things from transmission theory to remember when spending money on cables, which I've already seen supported by a few members of these forums: audio cables are not really critical to sound quality (unless they're 4 or 5 km long and/or really crapy), whereas video and aerial cables may actually be critical to image/sound quality... (See paragraph "When does cable impedance affect the signal?")

    Which comes to the point that it doesn't really matter that Canare's RCA are 75 ohm if one uses them in audio, BUT, if one uses them for video, then they can really make a difference.

    Which may mean that I'll buy a Mark Grant component cable with Canare's 75 ohm RCAs into the Hitachi, and Canare's 75 ohm BNCs out of the FLR...

    Luis
     
  19. johnson

    johnson
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    Hi Guys,
    Just for info, WBT make true 75ohm rca's. I have them.
    Regards
     
  20. johnson

    johnson
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    Here you are, Very small contact patches to stop the impedence dropping.
     

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  21. Plump

    Plump
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    Simon, I recall someone from AQ on CES explaining the real problem to achieve 75 Ohm is in female part of the connector, not in the male plug itself.
     
  22. johnson

    johnson
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    Hi Plump, yes of course you are correct. you wont get the full benefit unless they are both 75ohm rated.
    WBT do both.
    Regards
     

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  23. Plump

    Plump
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    Well, unless someone measures different, it is very fine thing on the paper.

    Acoustically, I do not believe in all that cable voodoo at all and I can hardly hear any differnces (if any present) amongst them. I use fairly cheap cables (alltogether not more than 0.7k and there are at least 70m cable in my 25k system which is far too expensive either.

    It is all waste of money anyway!
     
  24. johnson

    johnson
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    I seriously doubt that I could hear a difference also.Part of the hobby I think.
    Regards
     
  25. Plump

    Plump
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    Of course Simon, but I have to have a really bad day as today to be able to admit it :) .
     
  26. Kenny Glasgow

    Kenny Glasgow
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    I can recommend Mark Grant's cables :thumbsup: and use them (maninly) in my set up
     
  27. laalves

    laalves
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    GrahamMG, given that Neutrik does not publish the impedance value of their RCAs I decided to ask them. Look at the answer:

    "Dear Mr. Alves

    The impedance of a RCA connector is usually not very important.
    On low frequencies (as usually applied) an impedance mismatch has a little influence onto transmission results.
    When using high frequencies like HDTV or other video signals we suggest to use our BNC connectors which are true 75 OHM connectors.

    Nevertheless we would like to answer your question.
    It is very hard to seriously test the impedance of an RCA connector since there are no existing terminations and N-Type adapter for network analyzers.
    In order to serve your request we can use an improvised test setup to give you at least an idea about the impedance of our Profi.
    I expect that I can present you the test result in about one week.

    Best regards,

    Christian Ganahl "


    Is this customer service or what? I am impressed.... Running tests because some guy asked for a number!

    Luis
     
  28. Plump

    Plump
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    Or simply because they want to know it too !
    Luis, no manufacturer in the world will do anything just because of users, it is all profit driven, nothing more than that. The only exception can be good will or intention of some particular person!

    Apart from that, Neutrik can be put rather on the serious side along with few others.
     
  29. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    Neutrik are a professional firm, they deal with very large corporations and broadcasters all the time, this approach obviously also applies to the general public which is good......
    As my document says, all this is so dependent on so many influences I'd still say that a good spec cable terminated properly is all we need to worry about after all even TAG's finest Chief software engineer (hi Steve) got caught out measuring a speaker's distortion values once.......

    I have heard several times now that Mark Grant does seem to do a good job with no voodoo involved.....
     
  30. laalves

    laalves
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    Yes, I got convinced too, so that I have ordered one sub and one component cable from him.

    Won't be able to test any of those in the next month or so, since I ahaven't got the receiving ends yet for any of the cables :oops:

    But I wouldn't be willing to receive the new toys without the cables, so I got the cables first! :clap: :clap:

    Luis
     

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