What is your daily cost of energy and how are you trying to reduce it?

Yes we like cruising, some are cheaper than a weeks holiday in Britain and the money saved will help.

You do realise neither of those things are essential, and there are plenty of families who would love to have the luxury of going on a cruise or a holiday.
 
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I've got my heating set to 20.5C in the evening, coming on at 17:30 for 5 hrs. Currently as I type it's been on for nearly 4 hrs and the temp according to the hive thermostat is 19.2C so it hasn't got anywhere near the target temp in that 4 hrs. The thermostat is in the warmest room in the house as well, the living room. Must admit I'm pretty surprised the temp is only 19.2C , could it be because I've turned the flow temp down on our boiler to make it more efficient? I think I've got it set to 55C at the moment , maybe that's simply not enough to get the house up to the target temp and I might need to increase it, will try it and see. Going to try leaving the heating on all day as well and see what impact that has on usage. I work from home so it's not like it's wasted having it on all day. Been using around 5m3 of gas a day on average recently , 4 bed modern detached house with double glazing (not a huge house). No idea whether that usage is what you'd expect, I know there are lots of variables...
EDIT : 45 mins after originally posting the temp is now 19.6C so it's going up but boy is it struggling to get to 20.5C, probably won't get that far before it goes off again soon
 
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You do realise neither of those things are essential, and there are plenty of families who would love to have the luxury of going on a cruise or a holiday.
Please be honest. Do you still work?,what do you do? are you unemployed? do you go on holiday?
What was your upbringing like?, do you live in an affluent area?
These questions I have divulged on many posts here.
I know what I did for a living and what my wife still does, it’s on here, if you look.
I know what volunteering work we do.
What is your view about the poor in this Country, the disparity of wealth, oligarchs, royalty.
I have given my views. Have never seen any of yours.
Until you answer these questions, your statement above doesn’t mean zilch.
Just because we have holidays, doesn’t mean I cannot and shouldn’t give an argument forward to highlight my beginnings and the beginnings of many others.
 
I've got my heating set to 20.5C in the evening, coming on at 17:30 for 5 hrs. Currently as I type it's been on for nearly 4 hrs and the temp according to the hive thermostat is 19.2C so it hasn't got anywhere near the target temp in that 4 hrs. The thermostat is in the warmest room in the house as well, the living room. Must admit I'm pretty surprised the temp is only 19.2C , could it be because I've turned the flow temp down on our boiler to make it more efficient? I think I've got it set to 55C at the moment , maybe that's simply not enough to get the house up to the target temp and I might need to increase it, will try it and see. Going to try leaving the heating on all day as well and see what impact that has on usage. I work from home so it's not like it's wasted having it on all day. Been using around 5m3 of gas a day on average recently , 4 bed modern detached house with double glazing (not a huge house). No idea whether that usage is what you'd expect, I know there are lots of variables...
EDIT : 45 mins after originally posting the temp is now 19.6C so it's going up but boy is it struggling to get to 20.5C, probably won't get that far before it goes off again soon
Something sounds off in that system: Maybe the flow temp as you suggest, also worth mentioning if you have balanced your radiators? I found this made a big difference when I did it a few years ago. Also making sure TRVs aren't stuck open (I move them from time to time during the summer months if I remember). Obviously insulation helps too, double glazing and thick curtains, etc, plus the obvious (though I struggle sometimes with my family...keeping the blooming doors shut. :D ).

For comparison I put my heating on early yesterday at about 4:40pm and by about 6pm the living room had gone from 16c to 20c (the thermostat setting) as I was checking. I can see that after that time the gas use dropped for each half hour after that too. By 7pm the only gas used was my son having a shower, then it kicked back in from 7:30 to 8pm. Tiny amount of gas between 8 and 8:30, then another spurt before the timer kicked off at 9pm. I think some of our evening meal was cooked on the gas hob too:

Gas 5 Dec.jpg


I think the radiator in the living room is 10000Btu (room is 6m x 3.8m approx), but I can't remember for sure. I've gradually replaced them as I decorated each room.

I monitored the room temp each hour after that out of interest: It lost 0.5c each hour, so by midnight was 18.5c (I was watching the end of a film which finished shortly after midnight).

If you look at the morning use I only have the heating on for 50 minutes from 8:10 until 9am since we're retired and I prefer the house to be warm while I'm having my breakfast. You can see that by the second half hour it's using much less gas as the house warms up.

I hope that's of use, just for comparison: 4 bed 1970s detached, but with cavity wall insulation, extra loft insulation and double blinds/curtains in the living room (a large window, 1 x French door & a patio door to a conservatory).
 
You do realise neither of those things are essential, and there are plenty of families who would love to have the luxury of going on a cruise or a holiday.
Ok, so I’ve given you ample time to respond.
Oh my, have you nothing to say.
I have had many heated debates here with fellow members and quite rightly have earned some warning points for overstepping the mark.
I have so much more respect for these members, than I will ever have for you.
Highlighting the plight of the poor and disadvantaged in this Country doesn’t mean that you cannot take your family on a holiday.
There are many people in all walks of life that highlight these issues. I leave it to you to think and digest this, if that is possible.
Yes, I started out in a single parent family. We had nothing and I didn’t realise at the time how hard it was for my Mum to cope.
I’m not going to bother telling you anything more.
I see you are a distinguished member. I beg to disagree, you are a distinguished troll.
End of.
 
I see you are a distinguished member. I beg to disagree, you are a distinguished troll.
End of.

That's a very kind. As I've pointed out to you before in a diffent thread, sadly human society functions on the basis of 'all animals are equal but some are more equal than others'. Your comments about holidaying/cruising demonstrates that well, to deny our basic human selfishness is utterly futile.

Am sure you have seen the news yesterday? How would you go about telling the people in Haiti about the pros and cons of going on a cruise versus a holiday in the UK?

As I've also told you before aged 10 I couldn't speak a word of English and lived in one of a semi-detached house with 4 other families with single bath room...but that was a better standard of living compared to what we had before.....going on a holiday or a cruise wasn't even a pipe dream. The first time I even went on a train or private car was when I got to the UK.

As someone else has mentioned the UK is actually one of the most 'fair' in the world, that's what people risk their lives crossing the channel to get here. 30 years on from landing in Heathrow, I have been lucky enough to gain an University degree, PhD, x2 Diplomas, and now working towards a MsC. Not only is the UK fair the quality and access to education is simply amazing. I see you look up to Nelson Mandela, so you will understand the importance of education to improve everyone's lives. I should add all the extra educational qualifications I gained were done post Uni was done in my own time (and often self funded) whilst doing my day job.

“Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world.”

The way to improve the lives of all is to improve the skills of everyone. If you want the state to have the ability to really support those who are less fortunate you have to increase the value/assets of your country. Make a bigger pie to feed all, versus cutting up a small pie and struggle to feed a few.

I feel privileged to be able to work with some amazing people to help drive innovation and improve the lives of others. We are living through a 4th industrial revolution as we speak, and here in the UK we are on the bleeding edge of it! I don't wish for unachievable flights of fancy, but I am 100% focused doing everything I can to give back to the people/organisations that have supported and enabled me to get to where I'm now.

Going back on topic, it looks like the next few weeks is when the cost of heating is going to go crazy. I estimated we'll get through £200+ worth of gas by next week this time!!! However this is still better than having your homes bombed, family killed in the name of one man's ego.

My parents always told me to be thankful and pray we'll never have to live through/in a war zone. The cost of everything is going up partly because of what's going on at the edge of Europe. I suspect prices will go up more in the next 12 months, and means tested support should/will be there for those that really need it.
 
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Just got my bill for Nov. £143 :eek: Roughly 75% Gas and 25% Elec split.

An 80% increase on Oct. That's just for me in a small house. Heating on but generally a few hours per day (1 in the morning and a few at night). And I was away twice in Nov (total 5 days).

Best of luck to you all with big houses/families etc. £3-£500 a month over winter I'd expect.

Ovo want to increase my DD again (every month i've logged on since Sep they want to increase it).
 
Please be honest. Do you still work?,what do you do? are you unemployed? do you go on holiday?
What was your upbringing like?, do you live in an affluent area?
These questions I have divulged on many posts here.
I know what I did for a living and what my wife still does, it’s on here, if you look.
I know what volunteering work we do.
What is your view about the poor in this Country, the disparity of wealth, oligarchs, royalty.
I have given my views. Have never seen any of yours.
Until you answer these questions, your statement above doesn’t mean zilch.
Just because we have holidays, doesn’t mean I cannot and shouldn’t give an argument forward to highlight my beginnings and the beginnings of many others.
I thought the disparity of wealth conversation was on a previous thread which has since, rightfully, been locked as it was going in circles?

Seems you want to continue it.

On a side note - for the little our heating has been on I’m amazed at how much gas we’ve used as a childless couple having the luxury of being very stringent on temperature schedules!
 
Something sounds off in that system: Maybe the flow temp as you suggest, also worth mentioning if you have balanced your radiators? I found this made a big difference when I did it a few years ago. Also making sure TRVs aren't stuck open (I move them from time to time during the summer months if I remember). Obviously insulation helps too, double glazing and thick curtains, etc, plus the obvious (though I struggle sometimes with my family...keeping the blooming doors shut. :D ).

For comparison I put my heating on early yesterday at about 4:40pm and by about 6pm the living room had gone from 16c to 20c (the thermostat setting) as I was checking. I can see that after that time the gas use dropped for each half hour after that too. By 7pm the only gas used was my son having a shower, then it kicked back in from 7:30 to 8pm. Tiny amount of gas between 8 and 8:30, then another spurt before the timer kicked off at 9pm. I think some of our evening meal was cooked on the gas hob too:

View attachment 1792387

I think the radiator in the living room is 10000Btu (room is 6m x 3.8m approx), but I can't remember for sure. I've gradually replaced them as I decorated each room.

I monitored the room temp each hour after that out of interest: It lost 0.5c each hour, so by midnight was 18.5c (I was watching the end of a film which finished shortly after midnight).

If you look at the morning use I only have the heating on for 50 minutes from 8:10 until 9am since we're retired and I prefer the house to be warm while I'm having my breakfast. You can see that by the second half hour it's using much less gas as the house warms up.

I hope that's of use, just for comparison: 4 bed 1970s detached, but with cavity wall insulation, extra loft insulation and double blinds/curtains in the living room (a large window, 1 x French door & a patio door to a conservatory).

Thanks for that very useful reply , might I ask what you have your boiler flow temperature set to and where is your thermostat , is it in the room you spend most time in during the evening or a hallway or upstairs bedroom?
I would have no idea how to balance the radiators but I'll look it up. Would it be worth putting a TRV on all radiators then? Never really understood the benefit of them to be honest. I suspect our living room radiator might be on the small side for the room which is 16ft long by 11ft wide , radiator is 110cm wide and 45cm high, and it's under a window (aren't they always)
Is it best to keep all room doors closed then for heating efficiency?
 
Currently as I type it's been on for nearly 4 hrs and the temp according to the hive thermostat is 19.2C so it hasn't got anywhere near the target temp in that 4 hrs. The thermostat is in the warmest room in the house as well, the living room. Must admit I'm pretty surprised the temp is only 19.2C , could it be because I've turned the flow temp down on our boiler to make it more efficient? I think I've got it set to 55C at the moment , maybe that's simply not enough to get the house up to the target temp and I might need to increase it, will try it and see.

It sounds like your flow temperature is too low.
You need the heat input from your boiler+rads to exceed the heat loss from your house + gain to the set point. Bearing in mind that as the outside temperature is dropping the boiler needs to provide more heat to cover the difference. The boiler/stat will then cycle on and off to maintain that temperature.

There's no point in burning fuel all evening to fail to be comfortable - you'd be more comfortable with a flow temp that lets the boiler get the house to the set point, then cycling on/off to top up when the temperature drops below your set point.
 
Thanks for that very useful reply , might I ask what you have your boiler flow temperature set to and where is your thermostat , is it in the room you spend most time in during the evening or a hallway or upstairs bedroom?
I would have no idea how to balance the radiators but I'll look it up. Would it be worth putting a TRV on all radiators then? Never really understood the benefit of them to be honest. I suspect our living room radiator might be on the small side for the room which is 16ft long by 11ft wide , radiator is 110cm wide and 45cm high, and it's under a window (aren't they always)
Is it best to keep all room doors closed then for heating efficiency?
Flow temp is set to 60c and the thermostat is in the living room (I know some disagree with this as per another thread though) and where we spend most time.

Balancing radiators isn't hard, but takes a bit of time to do and you'll need some way to measure the temperature drop across each radiator. May be worth getting a heating professional to do it if you aren't confident to DIY.

I'd say yes to TRVs on all radiators bar the one in the room with the thermostat (there is usually one left without to allow flow for the boiler anyway, plus our hall radiator hasn't got one so it's just set to reduced flow). That way you aren't heating rooms that you aren't using, or aren't bothered about being as hot: Our bedrooms are set maybe 2-3 on the TRV (out of 5) as I don't like the bedroom to be too hot. Even the downstairs loo only on 4 as the towel radiator heats it really well since it's a small space.

The room thermostat is set to 20c, but the hall is typically about 14c or so on an evening judging by the barometer near our front door. No point heating up an area that we only briefly walk through.

That radiator sounds small, though it is fairly typical for them to be under a window. I removed the other one in our living room that was under the window (I wanted to wall mount the TV at the time), I then fitted the 10000BTu radiator in place of the other one that is away from the window. It was about 1' wider than the original one, but double convector and probably less clogged up than the 1970s (or whatever it was) one I took out. Speaking of clogged up I've flushed our system a number of times over the years as I replaced each radiator with a new one. I now use Fernox to protect the system from clogging too. Probably due another flush and refill, but I did it about 2-3 years ago so should be OK.
 
I'm having the same issue as zAndy1. The stat is set to 23 (to compensate for the hallway being super warm) but the bedrooms barely hit 20. I had the plumber round last week to balance the rads and check the boiler, but that's made no difference. My gas reading yesterday was 66.76 and electric was 12.86. On Sunday, the gas was a whopping 92kwh and electric 14kwh.

I've got someone coming over to fit the Tado so hoping this thing will make some difference.
 
but the bedrooms barely hit 20.
You have quite different requirements to me though; my living room is set to 20c and with the TRVs on 2-3 the bedrooms probably are 17-18 (ours is above the living room, so maybe gets a bit warmer).

If you're trying to heat the whole house to 20c then 66.76kwh isn't actually that bad I think: My example from 05 Dec a few posts back was 50kwh for the day and you can see it went off after 9pm and I'm only targeting keeping the living room at 20c.
 
Is my smart meter correct second correct readings? I'm averaging 0.3kwh so over 3 hours the total use should be around 0.9kwh but the total used is 1.99Kwh , nearly double. Am I reading this wrong?

F40EBB3B-1E9C-4F12-AF6C-28A65845AE7F.png
 
Is my smart meter correct second correct readings? I'm averaging 0.3kwh so over 3 hours the total use should be around 0.9kwh but the total used is 1.99Kwh , nearly double. Am I reading this wrong?
Nothing to do with your smart meter... what is the your app (whatever it is) supposed to be showing where it says daily usage is 1.99 kWh? Is that yesterday's total, is that a prediction for today, is that an average over the last few months, is that your budget? No idea, depends on the app.
 
I’m using the Hugo app. It’s showing the usage yesterday - but for some reason hasn’t shown the whole day as it usually does .
Ah, I didn't notice it was for yesterday. Well, why not check on your energy suppliers website? If not, I suppose you could either wait and see it if appears or complain to the supplier. 🤷‍♂️
 
Well my Mrs turned the heating off this morning when she left for work. Pretty much cements the idea that for us it’s better to leave the heating on constant.

So far today the boiler has been active for as much time as it was for the entirety of yesterday. It’s the temperature drop and getting it back up again that’s the killer.

78802D21-DA5A-481D-97B6-12289FE85615.jpeg



12177393-DFE9-41E7-A84D-AEB7F8A2D7CD.jpeg
 
That's interesting @Cobb as I've seen this discussed on other forums, obviously you have the tools to confirm what works best in your house. I'm still doing comparisons, though just based on gas use for various combinations of being on, or leaving gaps between heating being on depending on what we're doing.

We're retired so spend a lot of time at home, however my wife has a garden room art studio we built last year. It's really well insulated but has an electric panel heater which she puts on for short periods to warm it up...thankfully it then stays warm for ages.

Consequently it's a bit pointless then putting the heating on in the house if she's out there during the day and I'm doing some jobs around the house that mean I don't want to get too hot (or some outside stuff I'm trying to get done too). Sometimes I'll play my drum kit in the spare bedroom, but I don't need any heat when doing that other than what is retained from the morning heating!

It's once the sun drops and any solar gain from our conservatory has gone (if any) then we batten down the hatches and close all the blinds/curtains and doors. Today has been really bright and sunny, so we had lunch in the conservatory as it was so warm and left the patio door open: The living room has gone up from 17c mid morning to 19c now just from the heat coming through from the sun hitting the conservatory. The trick is to trap that heat before the conservatory starts to cool again as the sun drops, so I'll shut the patio door shortly.

Maybe once it gets properly into winter and especially if we get snow I'll end up putting it on through the day more and can try out a similar experiment to yours, though with less detailed tools.

I certainly appreciate the info. :smashin:
 
I should have said before - we’ve only lived in this house for 6 weeks so I’m still finding out it’s quirks and issues. Insulation in the loft is woefully thin, so that needs sorting. The living room has one wall which is almost entirely a sliding glass patio door. No documents for its installation were provided when we bought the house, I can however see it on Google Maps and that was 14yrs ago…. So the glass and probably all the windows in the house need changing. It doesn’t feel drafty but I’m sure it would help our overall insulation.

All that being said, when the heating is off and it being a particularly cold day - the Hive thermometer suggests we drop 1c an hour or so.
 
Well my Mrs turned the heating off this morning when she left for work. Pretty much cements the idea that for us it’s better to leave the heating on constant.

So far today the boiler has been active for as much time as it was for the entirety of yesterday. It’s the temperature drop and getting it back up again that’s the killer.

View attachment 1792622


View attachment 1792623

Looking at that it's clear now quickly your house heats up from 17C to 20C , only seems to take an hour if that. I've just at 16:30 switched mine on at 19C with a target of 20.5C so let's see how long that takes , thermostat is in the living room. I've set the flow temperature up to 60C which might help , I'm expecting it to take probably an hour and a half to two hours to reach 20.5 but let's see...
 
Hope it works better for you @zAndy1 :smashin:

I noticed how quickly @Cobb heats up too, similar to mine, though I'm only monitoring the living room.

I've just been clearing a bit more stuff from our loft so I can make enough space to get to the next area to add insulation to. I have to do it early afternoon so that the house has cooled down and it doesn't cause condensation issues in the loft with the hatch open for a while when I'm working. Then when the sun starts to drop I have to finish up and get the hatch closed ASAP. Seems to work as my knees are getting sore by the 90 minute mark and then any stuff I've brought down can be sorted through in the evening.

I found my laser temperature 'gun' though I forgot to bring it down: I used it to help me balance the radiators a few years ago, so I might check them again with it and generally looking at cold spots in the house to see if I can identify anywhere I can make improvements: Despite having a very nice front door fitted a few years ago, we are putting up a thermal curtain across it once it arrives. Also I've added an ugly, but effective, rubber sheet across the inside of our letterbox. It's a non-standard size on the inside and non of the covers you can buy fit properly...surprising how much cold air blows in from it too.

I think we're due some frost tonight, which will be the first this winter for us. Let's see how the heating does tonight. :)
 
Heating been on for half an hour and it's gone from 19C to 19.2C (target 20.5C). But you know what the daft thing is, it feels really warm and cosy right now cos the radiator is on. What happens with hive though is it will get to 20.5 , switch the heating off but the temp will overshoot just due to latent heat in the rads , it will then stay off until the temp drops below 20.5 again and in that time when the rads are off despite it being warmer according to the thermostat I guarantee it will feel colder because the radiators aren't on. It's really strange. That's why I want to move to nest and use opentherm which hopefully will give a much more consistent balanced temperature without the peaks and troughs I'm getting with hive.
I've noticed a radiator on the landing isn't getting particularly hot, it's noticeably cooler than the rest put it that way so I've no doubt some radiator balancing would help but I fear it's a bit beyond me that so I might get someone in to do it properly.
 
Yeah opentherm is the way forward. Agree with zAndy1 its weird how you can have a low temp with rad on & be comfortable yet higher temp with rad off be cold.
I can see it makes sense to leave the heating at a fairly constant temp while in the house but presumably if your not in its wasting heat/energy?
 
I've been wanting to get opentherm retrofitted onto my worcester bosch at some point as tado (and nest) support it, but haven't been brave enough yet!

You can buy an adapter to convert the opentherm protocol to EMS - ie

Video of the adaptor running with nest + WB boiler - pretty neat
 

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