• New Patreon Tier and Early Access Content available. If you would like to support AVForums, we now have a new Patreon Tier which gives you access to selected news, reviews and articles before they are available to the public. Read more.

What is wrong with the way American TV networks operate?

Guns_LotsOfGuns

Moderator/Games Reviewer
Im getting to the point now where im not going to bother to start watching any new American TV series until there are several series alrealdy out. Im getting really sick and tired of shows i like being cancelled before thier time.

Yes im mainly talking about Stargate, ok some people think it was rubbish for half of season 1, but by the end it was a great show i just dont understand how the tv execs cant see that and have a bit more faith in it.

It not just that show though, Lie to Me, V, Flash Forward, the list could go on forever, some of them might have deserved it but most barely get a chance, if its not super popular like Lost then its not worth bothering with.

How can the TV networks over there run like this? Is it just all about the ratings/ad revenue/money? Does no one care about actually creating a good bit of TV anymore.

I used to get annoyed when UK shows had short seasons like IT Crowd or Spooks, but at least we can actually watch something without fear of it not coming back on next week.

Surely there is a better way for US network to run thier business than on this constant conmission/cancel cycle?

\rant over
 

IAN P

Distinguished Member
Im getting really sick and tired of shows i like being cancelled before thier time.

Yes im mainly talking about Stargate, ok some people think it was rubbish for half of season 1, but by the end it was a great show i just dont understand how the tv execs cant see that and have a bit more faith in it.


10 seasons + 2 TV films

One of my faves. Spin-offs were ok just not as popular.


NCIS is going good too.
 

Guns_LotsOfGuns

Moderator/Games Reviewer
10 seasons + 2 TV films

One of my faves. Spin-offs were ok just not as popular.


NCIS is going good too.

Sorry to clarify I meant SG:U the franchise as a whole has had a good run but the current iteration was killed before it reached what was looking to be a pretty high peak IMO.
 

brian s

Distinguished Member
As annoying as it is to lose a favourite show the networks are running a business not a charity.

Bri
 

IAN P

Distinguished Member
Sorry to clarify I meant SG:U the franchise as a whole has had a good run but the current iteration was killed before it reached what was looking to be a pretty high peak IMO.


SG-U. Never got into it. A really dour show imho.

Didn't know it was being culled.
 

King Tones

Distinguished Member
I hear ya Guns, its crap in all honesty and the Networks dont do themselves any favours at all.

They either dont trust a show so can it early on or make people lose interest with stupid mid season breaks and the constant gaps when the shows are not aired for a week.
Flashforward for Example Started off really good, then slowed down a bit then they put it on something like a 3 or 4 month break and then aired the rest of the series which was alot better than the first half but by that time the casual viewer has given up or not bothered anymore. Raitings drop then bam it gets canned after 1 season.

Why not show the full run of the series ???
Why put huge breaks in the middle ??

Happened to Caprica, Flashforward, The Event and quite a few others and they have been canned now or are due to be.
They put huge money into the shows get some really good actors and then dont air the show every week :facepalm:

I understand they are a business and here to make money but sometimes they really dont help themselves.
 

TonyA

Prominent Member
I agree with King Tones - the networks are not allowing shows to build an audience, and then canceling them.

The people that run these networks are idiots. Just like the film studios who now are releasing everything in 3D thinking it will make more money - If a film is worth watching it will make money, gimmicks like 3D aren't the selling point!
 

Trollslayer

Distinguished Member
SG:U was too 'convenient' - i.e. something happened at just the right time etc.
I dipped into it a few times after the first couple of episodes and it confirmed my opinion that the would have killed themselves in a couple of weeks.
 

King Tones

Distinguished Member
I agree with King Tones - the networks are not allowing shows to build an audience, and then canceling them.

The people that run these networks are idiots. Just like the film studios who now are releasing everything in 3D thinking it will make more money - If a film is worth watching it will make money, gimmicks like 3D aren't the selling point!

Dont get me started on Film Studio's :mad: :laugh:

Agree on the 3D but the problem is people go and see them and its the new hot thing at the moment so it will be churned out for some time to come.
People will go see a crap film if its advertised as ' Amazing 3D Graphics '

Same as TV studio's churning out reality crap because its the in thing for the past few years and they get the viewers.

The only thing now that gets ratings or big box office is dumbed down tv or movies.

Here have hours and hours of reality rubbish, you dont want a story line or a build up of characters you want CRAP so here it is in the bucketloads :thumbsdow
 

denzyl

Prominent Member
I know the US tv companys have a break in the scheduling for the sports before restarting them up again so have they ever tried starting a complete series run after the sports season and then if the show loses viewing figures it is obviously the show itself that is the problem
 

nwgarratt

Distinguished Member
I started doing the same and waiting for around 3 seasons before I get into something. However, it doesn't matter how many seasons if it still ends with no conclusion to the stories. Fringe is the latest series I have just started.

I don't mind if a series is only one season as long as everything is tied up at the end. I hate cliffhanger as they are not needed is someone is a fan. They will come back anyway. I prefer story arc to be short rather than go on and on with no end in sight.

While I like all 3 CSI's (even Miami) a lot, I wish they stopped the Las Vegas one. Let it end on a high with Grissom coming back as I miss the character.

I think the other CSI series should look at around season 10 to end too. We know that the series will just go and go while it gets the ratings. I want it to stop before the rating really fall. Plus, it is expensive getting the DVD's as I don't watch it on TV :). I am behind a season or two on each one.

I am starting to prefer NCIS as I like the humour in the storylines.
 

Steven

Senior Moderator
A lot of these shows are niche and frankly poor. I understand it is all about personal preference but hey money talks, the budget of advertisers waits for no-one far as tv execs are concerned...

This discussion always reminds me of when Family Guy came back after being cancelled and Peter rolls off the list of all the shows that would have to make way for Fox to ever reinstate Family Guy
 

neroon

Established Member
Im getting to the point now where im not going to bother to start watching any new American TV series until there are several series alrealdy out. Im getting really sick and tired of shows i like being cancelled before thier time.

Yes im mainly talking about Stargate, ok some people think it was rubbish for half of season 1, but by the end it was a great show i just dont understand how the tv execs cant see that and have a bit more faith in it.

It not just that show though, Lie to Me, V, Flash Forward, the list could go on forever, some of them might have deserved it but most barely get a chance, if its not super popular like Lost then its not worth bothering with.

How can the TV networks over there run like this? Is it just all about the ratings/ad revenue/money? Does no one care about actually creating a good bit of TV anymore.

I used to get annoyed when UK shows had short seasons like IT Crowd or Spooks, but at least we can actually watch something without fear of it not coming back on next week.

Surely there is a better way for US network to run thier business than on this constant conmission/cancel cycle?

\rant over


To be fair I haven't seen stargate universe but from everything I've heard the show was never great and a lot of people were turned off by it. Given that Stargate SG 1, a good series, kept on running and running and running even though they had run out of good ideas. Then stargate Atlantis spun off relying on the same old tired story lines also out stayed itself.

The News Of universe being cancelled to me at least stops the stargate producers flogging the franchise to death even more than they have. Obviously when I finally what should I might have a different perspective but given they never had top writers in the first place, the likelihood that universe suddenly doles seems very unlikely.

While there are many shows to get worked up about you do seem to have been picking some average/mediocre fare to bring up. V and flash forward were both in that category, neither deserving of a second series, neither even showing potential.

A lot of these shows are niche and frankly poor. I understand it is all about personal preference but hey money talks, the budget of advertisers waits for no-one far as tv execs are concerned...

This discussion always reminds me of when Family Guy came back after being cancelled and Peter rolls off the list of all the shows that would have to make way for Fox to ever reinstate Family Guy

Steven while I agree the shows mentioned were not good. I would definitely class them as mainstream sci-fi not niche. That is one of the biggest problems about a lot of the current batch of sci-fi. In that they are trying to be too mainstream and appealing to such a wide audience that they are just mediocre sci-fi fare. Give me a proper well written, niche sci-fi any day of the week. Why there are not going do have the big numbers of a show like Lost. You will create a loyal and passionate fan base. I think the secret to a great sci-fi is creating its own universe to play in. While mainstream audiences like a more realistic real-world setting. Generally I don't find myself so fully immersed and perhaps other genre fans feel the same? It could also be that a lot of these mainstream shows don't have the same talented writers. Either way all my favourites sci-fi shows feature great writing that helps you forget some of the inadequacies of certain aspects of the productions.
 

neroon

Established Member
To the Op, guess it's wrong from a viewing its standpoint but unfortunately it's all down to money. There's no quick fixes and more often than not they aren't willing to let a show grow and develop an audience. Shows like the X-Files were not instant hits and had time to grow and develop in time slots that didn't expect massive audiences. Stargate universe was in the lucky position of not being on a network station instead being on sci-fi. It certainly had more opportunities to continue than far better shows have on mainstream networks. I suspect it would have been cancelled even earlier otherwise
 

Big Starbuck

Prominent Member
Nothing new here. Just look at Firefly.
 

Guns_LotsOfGuns

Moderator/Games Reviewer
While there are many shows to get worked up about you do seem to have been picking some average/mediocre fare to bring up. V and flash forward were both in that category, neither deserving of a second series, neither even showing potential.

I get worked up about these shows because I like them, i reference sci-fi shows as thats what I watch, whilst you may not agree on those particular shows quality you are missing the point, the problem isnt restricted just to them, i see countless shows from all genres getting the same treatment, to me it seems to be an inherent problem with the way these networks decide what lives and what dies.

As I said the thread was inspired by SG:U but the problem is bigger than cancelling just that one show.
 

IAN P

Distinguished Member
ITV have just announced they're scrapping Taggart after 28 years.


It's little comfort I know.:D
 

brian s

Distinguished Member
ITV have just announced they're scrapping Taggart after 28 years.


It's little comfort I know.:D

I've no idea how good the show is these days but they should have scrapped the name years ago when Mark McManus died.

Bri
 

bri1

Established Member
I hear ya Guns, its crap in all honesty and the Networks dont do themselves any favours at all.




Why not show the full run of the series ???
Why put huge breaks in the middle ??



I understand they are a business and here to make money but sometimes they really dont help themselves.


I totally agree, I really don't want to start investing time in getting into a series to have left hanging, all mid season breaks do is kill off the ratings, hence the whole show, the casual viewer is fickle & will just not bother watching anymore.
 

bri1

Established Member
Dont get me started on Film Studio's :mad: :laugh:

Agree on the 3D but the problem is people go and see them and its the new hot thing at the moment so it will be churned out for some time to come.
People will go see a crap film if its advertised as ' Amazing 3D Graphics '


:thumbsdow


I have now started to seek out non 3D versions of films to see if I can, as I have seen so many poor 3D versions, it's not worth the extra money or annoying reflection off the Glasses from the projection or crap left on auditorium lights, at first some of the films looked really good, now a lot of the effects are nearly non existent & may as well be a cheaper to see 2D version, cinema going is expensive enough as it is.

I think 3D is just used as an add on to a lot of films to make more cash out of us.
 

Steven

Senior Moderator
Steven while I agree the shows mentioned were not good. I would definitely class them as mainstream sci-fi not niche. That is one of the biggest problems about a lot of the current batch of sci-fi. In that they are trying to be too mainstream and appealing to such a wide audience that they are just mediocre sci-fi fare. Give me a proper well written, niche sci-fi any day of the week. Why there are not going do have the big numbers of a show like Lost. You will create a loyal and passionate fan base.
I'll give you Stargate but it should have naturally ended end of S8 original series anyway. Given the wild successes of Law & Order and CSI, every second show now does a spin-off - alas, of varying quality and eventually they run out of steam

But Stargate apart, I don't understand how you can class "Lie to Me, V, Flash Forward" (to quote the OP) as "mainstream" sci-fi niche. Is that meant to be double-marketing speak? That list reads to me as "hype, hype, hype" and very little substance. By definition something that is "mainstream" is popular and you don't need to dress it up. It's like saying "that mainstream football club is about to win a 19th league title"
 

majson83

Established Member
I'm sorry but this comes down to the casual TV viewer in part. The people who sit down and actively enjoy the rubbish on television known as Britains got talent (or america has), pop idol, x factor and other reality things like that. They're cheap to make, dont require much of an ensamble cast, dont require multiple sets, paying fees to writers etc. and they score highly in the ratings. instand sucess

then you get shows that have large casts, expensive sets, a variety of locations, multiple writers etc it all adds up getting average viewing figures. The network want money from advertisers and just dont care anymore.

Some of it also comes down to the fact that the ratings system is especially flawed. it's done on a small percentage of people who own a certain box (neilson) and like BARB the type of people who own those boxes are of a certain ilk (long story, there's been research on it) but in short the general belief is that they do not represent the veiws of a nation as a whole.

you would think in a digital age people could simply see what people are viewing simply by simply being on that channel, we can do it on websites etc.

sadly i gave up a while ago and only bother watching shows that have had at least 2 seasons. i got annoyed when i gave joan of arcadia a chance and loved it yet was cancelled without an ending..then i gave another show a chance, jericho and loved that. thankfully that got a proper ending.

I dont mind so long as they at least get an ending. If tv companies cancel a show they should still give notice and allow them to tie up most of the loose ends, for the fans of the show. If nothing else but also because it's likely to at least shift more in dvd sales. nobody wants to buy something that's got no ending, you dont buy a book if it's missing the last 20 pages

there are odd shows who get by with lower figures but usually if the studio backs the show and ot the tv channel, simply because the studio can make it back in
 
Isn't 4400 another that ended early? I heard they did so stopped watching after season 2 as if there's no ending I don't see the point.

Has V also been scrapped :( I liked that

Sent from my iPhone using AVForums
 

Steven

Senior Moderator
Even shows with multiple seasons get cancelled on a cliffhanger :rolleyes: :( I am talking about Farscape; still haven't watched the mini-series which wrapped it up...
 

The latest video from AVForums

Is 8K TV dead? Philips OLED+907, Pioneer LX505 AVR plus B&W 700 S3 Reviews & Visit + AV/HiFi News
Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Full fat HDMI teeshirts

Support AVForums with Patreon

Top Bottom