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What is the most powerful AV Amplifier as regards to richer sounds?

JohnProton

Distinguished Member
I'm dealing at the moment with someone from richer sound and he said hed give me a good deal if i got something from them. so Im wondering what is the most power amp wattage. my speakers are focal 926 at 250 watts 8 ohms. Ive been looking at home cinema for a while he said I should go for the Yamaha A3060 but then said i should maybe go with mono blocks becuase of my speakers, I dont see any mono blocks on there so I dont know what he was talking about there. Id like my setup to have everything in sound such as DTS X, Atmos etc, even if i dont have an atmos set up yet. I like things to be future proof. Amps Listed on there are Cambridge, Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer and yamaha. they have more brands than that but the other ones are no good. since I have quite powerful fronts, i will be getting the focal 906 eventual as backs and the centre which is a focal aria cc900 and the bookshelfs and the centre are all 8 ohms like my 926. I dont think I need a sub because the bass in my floorstanders go so low the bass sounds long like a sunb woofer and adding a sub woofer i think could be a bit much but im unsure about that. im looking into things for now, but i think next month i'll get the amp well depending on the price of it.
 
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JohnProton

Distinguished Member
I dont know much about this but it seems the Pioneer SCLX901 is the most powerful because it has a maximum power output of 200 x 11 @ 8 ohms the one he recommended was the yamaha RXA3060 a maximum output of 150 x 9 @ 8 ohms, wouldnt the pioneer be much better with the focals because it would give them more juice and is the pioneer SCLX901 a good av amp? it is a little more pricey at 2k where as the yamaha 3060 is 1.7k
 

Mark.Yudkin

Distinguished Member
Assuming those Focals are in a big room, so that you need plenty of power to drive them, I'd suggest getting an AVR with pre-outs, so that you can add a separate stereo (or pair of mono) power amplifiers to drive them to very high levels. That might also be a good idea for quality or impedance reasons (see below)

Your Focal Aria 926's are specified as
Two 16.5cm bass woofers
...
Sensitivity (2.83V / 1m) 91.5dB
Frequency response (+/- 3dB) 45Hz - 28kHz
Since your speakers have a fairly limited low end (45Hz is -3dB) - not surprisingly given the 16.5cm woofer pair, you should be considering a subwoofer, at least if you're into action films.

With a sensitivity of 91.5dB @ 1W @1m, a normal sized room should be readily manageable with a decent AVR. However the minimum 2.9 Ohm impedance might be an issue if you skimp, again speaking for adding a separate power amplifier and therefore ensuring you have that option.
 

BobBob21

Prominent Member
Remember that there is little standardization of power outputs and power without control is pointless. My old car's stereo amp claimed to be 1000w RMS output where as my Arcam AVR550 claims only 110w in stereo and yet can easily get as loud but more importantly you can still hear/understand the music/dialog when loud where as the old amp lost control at 25% output.

As has already been suggested, if you want true "power" then get a decent AVR with pre-outs and add extra amplification either in stereo or mono blocks. RS don't list any mono blocks on their site but they do a couple of stereo power amplifiers.

Don't know about richer sounds explicitly but many hifi companies will loan you kit to try at home, assuming you actually want a good sound rather than the brag factor of XXXX watt amp, then this can help a lot. Failing that, try their listening room with the kit in question.

Finally, if you are getting "a good deal" then list price isn't that important as some brands/products have greater markup than others. I've been in the market for one of two items with identical ticket prices but the retailer was willing to slash ones prices much more than the other.
 

JohnProton

Distinguished Member
Remember that there is little standardization of power outputs and power without control is pointless. My old car's stereo amp claimed to be 1000w RMS output where as my Arcam AVR550 claims only 110w in stereo and yet can easily get as loud but more importantly you can still hear/understand the music/dialog when loud where as the old amp lost control at 25% output.

As has already been suggested, if you want true "power" then get a decent AVR with pre-outs and add extra amplification either in stereo or mono blocks. RS don't list any mono blocks on their site but they do a couple of stereo power amplifiers.

Don't know about richer sounds explicitly but many hifi companies will loan you kit to try at home, assuming you actually want a good sound rather than the brag factor of XXXX watt amp, then this can help a lot. Failing that, try their listening room with the kit in question.

Finally, if you are getting "a good deal" then list price isn't that important as some brands/products have greater markup than others. I've been in the market for one of two items with identical ticket prices but the retailer was willing to slash ones prices much more than the other.
its not about bragging definitly not, its all about getting the highest power av amplifier to drive my speakers, the higher wattage the best quality sound, less effort it has to make to drive my speakers. thats what Im after. so its a matter of choosing the right one to go with. I dont know why he suggested mono blocks if they dont have any unless he meant get them from somewhere else, but hes a sales rep i doubt he meant that hah
 

BobBob21

Prominent Member
I dont know why he suggested mono blocks if they dont have any unless he meant get them from somewhere else, but hes a sales rep i doubt he meant that hah
Have to say that a really good shop will recommend to you things that they don't sell, in theory it means you can trust their advice as its clearly not purely motivated by their profit. Ok they lose this sale but you come back to them next time. If they sell you something unsuitable then sure they make their margin but you never come back again.... unfortunately AV is a disease and you will keep coming back.

That said, whilst they don't advertise things like monoblocks from Arcam or such they are an official stockist of the brand and so can order them for you - just no option to hear before you buy.
 

JohnProton

Distinguished Member
Have to say that a really good shop will recommend to you things that they don't sell, in theory it means you can trust their advice as its clearly not purely motivated by their profit. Ok they lose this sale but you come back to them next time. If they sell you something unsuitable then sure they make their margin but you never come back again.... unfortunately AV is a disease and you will keep coming back.

That said, whilst they don't advertise things like monoblocks from Arcam or such they are an official stockist of the brand and so can order them for you - just no option to hear before you buy.
thats what I thought if they stock a certain brand they obviously deal with them so could order them in, the ones they dont have listed on their site, for example they have the focal aria 906, the floorstanders but they dont have the focal aria centre speaker for sale, but i did think surely they will be able to get it in anyway if they stock the others.

I did think richer sounds are really only really aimed at new comers in the higher end market and quite mainstream so mainly motivated by profit more whereas high end shops that ive experienced are not as much like that.
 

BobBob21

Prominent Member
My experience is that they will sell it to you, and then obv order, rather than getting one in for you to look at/demo.

Personally, it varies a lot by branches, some are good and some are bad but the same applies to Sevenoaks and other chains. I move around a lot so have sampled a fair number of shops. Some are good and some terrible.
 

BlueWizard

Distinguished Member
I think we need a clear statement of BUDGET?

An AV Pre-Amp Proocessor plus Power Amps can cost in the range of £4000.

However, a good AV Receiver would probably cost in the neighborhood of £2000. That's a big difference.

Next we need to know the DIMENSIONS of the Room that the system will be placed in? I takes more power to fill an auditorium than it does to fill a closet.

Why Richer Sounds? Nothing wrong with Richers they have a fine selection, but why limit you search to them?

Also, how far do you intend to take it - 5-channel, 7-channel, 9-channel, 11-channel, ...? More amps equal more money.

While the Focal 926 might be rated at 250w, they would most certainly perform fine (for music) with a 50w/ch Amp. At 91.5dB Rated Sensitivity, they should have no problem filling most rooms.

https://www.focal.com/sites/www.foc...log/document/Aria_926-specification_sheet.pdf

I think you will find most AV Receivers have 100w/channel or more, which is plenty of power. As you go to the higher side of the price range, you are buying a bit more power, but more likely quality and features.

The Marantz SR7011 AVR is about 125w/ch of power, and it is 9.2 channels. (~£1200)

The Denon AVR-X4300 is about 125w/ch and has 9.2-channels. (~£1500)

The Denon AVR-X6300 is about 140w/ch and has 11.2 channels. (~£2200)

The Yamaha RX-A3060 is about 150w/ch and has 9.2 channels. (~£1700)

Cambridge Audio CXR120, 100w/ch, 7.2 (~£1500)

Cambridge AUdio CXR200, 120w/ch, 7.2 (~£2000)

Pioneer SC-LX901 - 140w/ch - 11.2 channels - (~£2000)


For ATMOS you probably need a 9.2 or 11.2 channel amp.

If you want higher end AV Receivers, consider Arcam, Anthem, and others -

£3200 = Anthem MRX720, 11.2 channels, 140w/ch


£2700 = Arcam FMJ AVR550, 7-channels, 110w/ch, requires additional Amps for Atmos

None of these are the most expensive amps, they are just on the higher side of consumer AV Receivers. You can easily go as high as £5000 to £10,000 just for an AV Receiver.

Likely any of these AVRs in the £1000 to £2000 range will do a fine job for you. If you can double that, we can start looking at Pre-Amp/Processors and Power Amps.

A quick scan of AV Pre-Amp Processors shows them in the range of £1700 and a bit over £4000. Multi-channel Power amps running between £1000 and £4000 depending on the quality and number of channels.

For high end with Atmos (5.1.2) the Parasound are good quality and well reviewed. The ideal combination would be.

£2600 = Parasound Halo A21, 2x 250w/ch Power Amp (FRONT)

£5000 = Parasound Halo A51, 5x250w/ch Power Amp (Center, Surround, Atmos)


That would give you seven channels, if you need more, then just buy more Parasound A21 Amps. Seven channels would be enough for Atmos 5.1.2. If you want 5.1.4 or 7.1.4, you will need 9 and 11 channels respectively.

As you can see, the budget potential can run very high, so we need you to narrow it down and give us a clear statement of your realistic Budget?

Steve/bluewizard
 

JohnProton

Distinguished Member
realisticly for me my budget would be £2000 or £2700 with a push. the cheaper the better becuase I wouldnt be spending as much, but its all about quality and Im not really as fussy with home cinema as I would be with hi-fi. i do like a warm or kind of like vinyl or tube amp sound if you will but we are talking about home cinema and not hi-fi but as a music system I do like the warmer softer sound. I was going to go for a denon at first but then the richer sounds guy recons I would like the yamaha more because of the type of sound I like .

My room size well its only small. Its 3 metres length by 4 metres wide. id like the amp to be a 7.1 channel and id like i to be able to do atmos for later in case I move so it would be more future proof and wouldnt have to buy one in case I decide to buy atmos speakers later. its a small room so for now Id want 5.1 channels but i want it to be able to have 7.1 channel in atmos and id like it to be 7.1.4. so probably a 9 or 11 channel av amp.
 

JohnProton

Distinguished Member
if the quality is going to be much higher quality then i would go with a 5.1 but it would have to be good quality, i just want what I buy to be able to really push my speakers well I have
 

JohnProton

Distinguished Member
i must admit i ahve always liked the look of Arcam the most but do they deliver good sound? is the question
 

Andy98765

Distinguished Member
I think you need to go and have a good listen to a few AV amps. In your small room 4x3 any of the AV amps that have been suggested will lift the roof off you house. I have an old Marantz 7007 driving B&W 685's (Fronts) in a room 7x5 and the power is way more than I need (pain levels). RS most powerful AV amp is the CA CXR200 Richer Sounds it has 1800watt power supply, it will out 170watts (7.1) all channels driven not just 2 but it has it's limitations. (HDMI and the need for a phono pre-amp).
 

JohnProton

Distinguished Member
I think you need to go and have a good listen to a few AV amps. In your small room 4x3 any of the AV amps that have been suggested will lift the roof off you house. I have an old Marantz 7007 driving B&W 685's (Fronts) in a room 7x5 and the power is way more than I need (pain levels). RS most powerful AV amp is the CA CXR200 Richer Sounds it has 1800watt power supply, it will out 170watts (7.1) all channels driven not just 2 but it has it's limitations. (HDMI and the need for a phono pre-amp).
i was actually looking at this and concidered it, it looks a really nice one too. :D thanks
 

BobBob21

Prominent Member
I recently upgraded from Onkyo to Arcam and whilst a big step up in price, esp when having to add a separate phono stage, it is a much better sound to my ears (though also 5 years more modern)

As others have said, you need to be demoing units at RS and possibly elsewhere as going on stats or aesthetics alone won't ensure you're going to get the best sound for your tastes
 

daveteauk

Established Member
More power absolutely does NOT mean better sound - that is a nubi error of judgement. It's almost irrelavant, as long as the amp can deliver without clipping, and as someone else on here has said, in your, almost tiny, room, anything over 50w will drive your efficient speakers as loud as you want. You certainly do not need external amps to do what you want. Steve-'BlueWizard', above make some very good points, and lists good products, although he's missed the Denon 7200. I also agree that you would benefit from a sub as your speakers do not go very low. If you think they do, maybe you have them in the corners of the room = very bad idea. They should be well away from corners, and not have their backs against, or very near a rear wall either. I would choose the Denon 62(3)00 or the Yamaha 2060 for your situation/budget.
 

daveteauk

Established Member
i must admit i ahve always liked the look of Arcam the most but do they deliver good sound? is the question
Yes, they certainly do, but at a price, which seems out of your budget range! Are you really watching such a large TV in such a small room? I saw that in your post, but can you, or anyone, tell me how/where I upload my data to for showing that, please?
 

JohnProton

Distinguished Member
my speakers ar
More power absolutely does NOT mean better sound - that is a nubi error of judgement. It's almost irrelavant, as long as the amp can deliver without clipping, and as someone else on here has said, in your, almost tiny, room, anything over 50w will drive your efficient speakers as loud as you want. You certainly do not need external amps to do what you want. Steve-'BlueWizard', above make some very good points, and lists good products, although he's missed the Denon 7200. I also agree that you would benefit from a sub as your speakers do not go very low. If you think they do, maybe you have them in the corners of the room = very bad idea. They should be well away from corners, and not have their backs against, or very near a rear wall either. I would choose the Denon 62(3)00 or the Yamaha 2060 for your situation/budget.
Hi, my speakers are 53cm or 21 inches from the corner, they have a bass reflex at the bottomof the speaker as well as one shooting out of the front so I think the one on the bottom creates better lows thn they should. The guy in the shop said Id like the yamaha over the denon, I do like a nice warm sound but natural sound. I had looked at cambridge av amps as well
 

JohnProton

Distinguished Member
Yes, they certainly do, but at a price, which seems out of your budget range! Are you really watching such a large TV in such a small room? I saw that in your post, but can you, or anyone, tell me how/where I upload my data to for showing that, please?
yes I certainly am watching that tv in such a small room, its not a problem really becuase you can sit closer with 4k tvs than you can if it was just a standard hd tv. you can go to more options on here when you post something and click on more options then upload a file or go to Postimage.org which ive done before in the past, but i prefer to do it on here but if ive ever ran into problems ive used a site like that instead
 

JohnProton

Distinguished Member
People dont seem to mention the bottom reflex anywhere. and thats what gives them a more sub like sound i think. They are not close to the wall.

Focal-Aria-926-Walnut.jpg
aria-926-event.jpg

MG_93281.jpg
 

JohnProton

Distinguished Member
How do they rate in a home cinema configuration?
No need for a subwoofer! Unless you want to install them in a huge listening room and make the walls shake, the Focal Aria 926 speakers don’t need an additional subwoofer for home cinema purposes. We compared them to the Q Acoustics 2050i, which they literally crush to bits. (Taken from this review (Review: Focal Aria 926) but im not 100% cos I dont hve a subwoofer to try it out but thats what they say
 
D

Deleted member 39241

Guest
Beware of manufacturers specifications power ratings, they are often inflated and inaccurate.

Here is some data from bench tests that have been done by www.soundandvision.com, these ratings are with 5 channels driven into 8 ohms speakers at 0.1% THD (prices in UK £):

Marantz SR7011 £929
104.9 watts

Anthem MRX1120 £4400
70.5 watts

Arcam AVR850 £4499
115.2 watts

Denon AVR-X7200W £1995
122.3 watts

Onkyo TX-RZ900 £999
130.4 watts

Yamaha RX-A3060 £1700
102.3 watts

The Cambridge Audio CXR 200 is, I believe, the most powerful current model AVR on the market at 170 watts in stereo mode into 8 ohms, and 120 watts all channels driven. Unfortunately, this model has not been bench tested, but the lower power CXR 120 has, and registered as accurate performance to the specs that Cambridge had quoted, so we can expect the same from the CXR 200. To get more power than that you would be looking at adding additional external amplification.
 

JohnProton

Distinguished Member
Beware of manufacturers specifications power ratings, they are often inflated and inaccurate.

Here is some data from bench tests that have been done by www.soundandvision.com, these ratings are with 5 channels driven into 8 ohms speakers at 0.1% THD (prices in UK £):

Marantz SR7011 £929
104.9 watts

Anthem MRX1120 £4400
70.5 watts

Arcam AVR850 £4499
115.2 watts

Denon AVR-X7200W £1995
122.3 watts

Onkyo TX-RZ900 £999
130.4 watts

Yamaha RX-A3060 £1700
102.3 watts

The Cambridge Audio CXR 200 is, I believe, the most powerful current model AVR on the market at 170 watts in stereo mode into 8 ohms, and 120 watts all channels driven. Unfortunately, this model has not been bench tested, but the lower power CXR 120 has, and registered as accurate performance to the specs that Cambridge had quoted, so we can expect the same from the CXR 200. To get more power than that you would be looking at adding additional external amplification.
Thats nice to know that cambridge is on my short list :)
 

koem

Standard Member
You might enjoy this..


realisticly for me my budget would be £2000 or £2700 with a push. the cheaper the better becuase I wouldnt be spending as much, but its all about quality and Im not really as fussy with home cinema as I would be with hi-fi. i do like a warm or kind of like vinyl or tube amp sound if you will but we are talking about home cinema and not hi-fi but as a music system I do like the warmer softer sound. I was going to go for a denon at first but then the richer sounds guy recons I would like the yamaha more because of the type of sound I like .

My room size well its only small. Its 3 metres length by 4 metres wide. id like the amp to be a 7.1 channel and id like i to be able to do atmos for later in case I move so it would be more future proof and wouldnt have to buy one in case I decide to buy atmos speakers later. its a small room so for now Id want 5.1 channels but i want it to be able to have 7.1 channel in atmos and id like it to be 7.1.4. so probably a 9 or 11 channel av amp.


Now when you mentioned your room size I can see it is not far away from my own small sound room. My room is 4,5m * 3,6m, but then the height is only 2,05m.

I have installed an Atmos 4.1.4 (no Center) system there. The receiver is a Marantz SR6011 with pre amp outputs and then I use a Hegel H160 as an amp for the front speakers. With the Hegel H160 integrated you can be sure you get more than enough power for the front speakers and it is also ready to be used for a very nice stereo setup. (you can use it just with Airplay and it sounds great) I can see it will be a bit over the budget, but not that far. It´s a far better solution using a separate for the front speakers when talking about clarity and clear sound as well as power.
I also added a Sunfire HRS-12 which I thought could be to heavy for the small room, but after advice here I bought it. It works nicely and has an accurate sound on also on low levels and its very small in physical size.
Please also read some reviews of the Hegel H160. It has a really hig damping factor so if you care about control it should give you what you want.

However the power is not the challenge with this kind of equipment in such a small room.
The main challenge you most probably will have with this small room is the acoustics in the room. Most certainly you will need absorption for the reflections from the walls and ceiling. The most common challenge in such small rooms are the standing bass waves. The easiest to stop by the way is the higher frequency first and second reflections from the front speakers. Make yourself a favour and emphasise more on that than the equipment itself. Many people have bought expensive equipment which sounds like crap because of bad acoustics, and small rooms are problematic in that sense :)
 

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