What is the difference between True Cinema and Off?

TheSpiderWeb18

Novice Member
I am very confused because some film makers recommend you either turn it off or True Cinema for the cinematic effect since turning it on Smooth and the rest of the motion buttons creates SOE but others have told me that True Cinema also turns on SOE.

Also I am confused by the differences between Motionflow and Film Mode; is it high/medium or low/off for a cinematic or SOE look?
 
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EndlessWaves

Distinguished Member
Bear in mind that modes aren't necessarily the same between brands so on a Panasonic 'True Cinema' mode is accurate but dim but it may be different on the Sony you appear to be talking about.
 

TheSpiderWeb18

Novice Member
So what do these modes do on an XE930? And what is the difference because the notion that these settings differ per model is extremely confusing.
 

Ivan Samuel

Active Member
I am very confused because some film makers recommend you either turn it off or True Cinema for the cinematic effect since turning it on Smooth and the rest of the motion buttons creates SOE but others have told me that True Cinema also turns on SOE.

Also I am confused by the differences between Motionflow and Film Mode; is it high/medium or low/off for a cinematic or SOE look?
True cinema should recreate the original movie's 24 frames per second.
Motionflow set to smooth, custom, etc. will use motion interpolation.
 
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TheSpiderWeb18

Novice Member
True cinema should recreate the original movie's 24 frames per second.
Motionflow set to smooth, custom, etc. will use motion interpolation.
So what is the point of the off button? And is Film mode better on low or high or off for cinematic effect/turning off the SOE?

The reason I ask is because many film makers including the creators of Stranger Things all recommend you turn off the motion but does that refer to film mode?
 

Ivan Samuel

Active Member
So what is the point of the off button? And is Film mode better on low or high or off for cinematic effect/turning off the SOE?

The reason I ask is because many film makers including the creators of Stranger Things all recommend you turn off the motion but does that refer to film mode?
I only ever use true cinema or custom when calibrating Sony sets for customers.
Off should in theory disable the 24 frame playback and you will get pulldown judder.

True cinema and film mode low for set-and-forget original 24 frame playback.
Custom (film mode low) set to 2 if you want some motion smoothing.
 

andy1249

Distinguished Member
I,ll try and clear this up.

On some sets there are “ frame interpolation” modes that cause SOE.
SOE is truly horrible, you,d know if it was an issue on your set.

It is the frame interpolation mode that everyone says should definitely be left off.
Some manufacturers call this true motion or true cinema.
Other manufacturers have different names for it.

Sony I believe , use true cinema as the name for their most accurate mode, i.e. definitely not a frame interpolation mode.

You will have to read your manual, look for word “interpolation” and whatever manufacturer specific name your set gives to it, and make sure its turned off.
 

Ivan Samuel

Active Member
I,ll try and clear this up.

On some sets there are “ frame interpolation” modes that cause SOE.
SOE is truly horrible, you,d know if it was an issue on your set.

It is the frame interpolation mode that everyone says should definitely be left off.
Some manufacturers call this true motion or true cinema.
Other manufacturers have different names for it.

Sony I believe , use true cinema as the name for their most accurate mode, i.e. definitely not a frame interpolation mode.

You will have to read your manual, look for word “interpolation” and whatever manufacturer specific name your set gives to it, and make sure its turned off.
That approach is very black and white and doesn’t suit everyone.

There is usually a custom configuration that both eliminates SOE and reduces judder without turning off the controls entirely.

Some people find switching all the motion handling off results in an overly-soft image.
This can be as offensive to those viewers as SOE is to others.
 

andy1249

Distinguished Member
That approach is very black and white and doesn’t suit everyone.

There is usually a custom configuration that both eliminates SOE and reduces judder without turning off the controls entirely.

Some people find switching all the motion handling off results in an overly-soft image.
This can be as offensive to those viewers as SOE is to others.
It pretty much is a black and white issue.
Interpolation sucks , and if a set cant produce a sharp and judder free image without it then thats unacceptable and you should Shop around for one that can.
There are plenty out there.
 

Ivan Samuel

Active Member
It pretty much is a black and white issue.
Interpolation sucks , and if a set cant produce a sharp and judder free image without it then thats unacceptable and you should Shop around for one that can.
There are plenty out there.
Motion controls can vary vastly between manufacturers and models.

Not all interpolation 'sucks'.
 

andy1249

Distinguished Member
Motion controls can vary vastly between manufacturers and models.

Not all interpolation 'sucks'.
The best a TV can be is as accurate as possible and calibrated to standards.
Interpolation plays no part in that, indeed, it “must” be off to get the best results.

Interpolation with any digital medium or format is always an absolute last resort method of getting a acceptable result.
It should never be needed as by definition it introduces artifacts to the final result, where artifact means something introduced by the reproduction chain that was never intended to be in the original content.
 
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Ivan Samuel

Active Member
The best a TV can be is as accurate as possible and calibrated to standards.
Interpolation plays no part in that, indeed, it “must” be off to get the best results.

Interpolation with any digital medium or format is always an absolute last resort method of getting a acceptable result.
It should never be needed as by definition it introduces artifacts to the final result, where artifact means something introduced by the reproduction chain that was never intended to be in the original content.
That simply isn’t true.
You are generalising across the board.

Not all motion interpolation introduces visible artefacts or SOE. Some controls work very well when used with caution and experience.

You also have absolutely no idea which display the colourist used to complete the work. How then can you know how it handled motion on the original grade in order to retain image fidelity?
 

TheSpiderWeb18

Novice Member
I will experiment with the above settings but I am still confused by film mode; is it meant to be on off for Sports/ Soaps etc or low to high? and the opposite for movies.
.
 

andy1249

Distinguished Member
You also have absolutely no idea which display the colourist used to complete the work. How then can you know how it handled motion on the original grade in order to retain image fidelity?
I can absolutely guarantee you it was a professionally calibrated display as all professional gear in the video production chain is and has to be.
If you want to be sure you are seeing what the creator intended, you have your display calibrated to the same standards..

That is why calibration exists, to make sure everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet as it were...

Edit: just for reference , here is a link to Vincent reviewing a 1000 nit Pro Broadcast OLED display, typical of the units used in pro video production, note towards the end, no interpolation allowed as it would compromise the display accuracy.
Hopefully this tech will become more affordable and end up in consumer displays soon.
 
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Ivan Samuel

Active Member
I can absolutely guarantee you it was a professionally calibrated display as all professional gear in the video production chain is and has to be.
If you want to be sure you are seeing what the creator intended, you have your display calibrated to the same standards..

That is why calibration exists, to make sure everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet as it were...
And of course all technology types handle motion in the same way don’t they?

If that’s true speak to someone who has gone from a plasma display to an OLED.
 

Ivan Samuel

Active Member
I will experiment with the above settings but I am still confused by film mode; is it meant to be on off for Sports/ Soaps etc or low to high? and the opposite for movies.
.
Film mode is for deinterlacing film material when on the low setting. I suggest leaving it in that position.

The higher settings seem to add further interpolation as motion resolution increases on test material.
 

andy1249

Distinguished Member
And of course all technology types handle motion in the same way don’t they?

If that’s true speak to someone who has gone from a plasma display to an OLED.
In the world of professional film / video production they all operate within industry standards, yes, that is undeniably true.
But those displays also cost a small fortune.

In the world of affordable end user displays its a different story.
Most sets of course never get calibrated.
People think adjustments are there so that they can adjust to taste instead of being there so that you can get it right.

And absolutely worst of all, some sets rely on interpolation to cover up poor performance, which sucks and is truly the bottom of the Barrel.
 
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Ivan Samuel

Active Member
In the world of professional film / video production they all operate within industry standards, yes, that is undeniably true.

In the world of end user displays its a different story.
Most sets of course never get calibrated.
People think adjustments are there so that they can adjust to taste instead of being there so that you can get it right.

And absolutely worst of all, some sets rely on interpolation to cover up poor performance, which sucks and is truly the bottom of the Barrel.
You are preaching to the converted as I calibrate displays for a living.

I just don’t share your black and white motion control views.
In some instances they address issues within consumer televisions or please customers who can’t abide judder.
 

andy1249

Distinguished Member
You are preaching to the converted as I calibrate displays for a living.

I just don’t share your black and white motion control views.
In some instances they address issues within consumer televisions or please customers who can’t abide judder.
If your in the calibration business then you should know as an engineer ( of sorts at least ) we dont have views, we have data.

Interpolation , as the data proves, is never a good thing.
 

TheSpiderWeb18

Novice Member
It is strange that lot of film makers such as the guys from Stranger Things prefer motionflow to be set to off...not even set to True Cinema which sounds like the same mode except the true cinema reduces judder, right?
 

TheSpiderWeb18

Novice Member
I,ll try and clear this up.

On some sets there are “ frame interpolation” modes that cause SOE.
SOE is truly horrible, you,d know if it was an issue on your set.

It is the frame interpolation mode that everyone says should definitely be left off.
Some manufacturers call this true motion or true cinema.
Other manufacturers have different names for it.

Sony I believe , use true cinema as the name for their most accurate mode, i.e. definitely not a frame interpolation mode.

You will have to read your manual, look for word “interpolation” and whatever manufacturer specific name your set gives to it, and make sure its turned off.
Are you sure that not getting true cinema mixed up with Cinema Pro/home? The reason I asked is because you mentioned that True Cinema had nothing to do with interpolation yet the motionflow mode includes it.
 

Ivan Samuel

Active Member
If your in the calibration business then you should know as an engineer ( of sorts at least ) we dont have views, we have data.

Interpolation , as the data proves, is never a good thing.
I agree. We essentially work for our customers though (at least whilst on-site) and some of them have preferences, which include the use of motion smoothing whether that is right or wrong.
 

Hank Hill

Novice Member
According to a user on this site named Mallet, using True Cinema with film mode on high will result in the correct cadence of 5:5 why TC with FM on low will result in pulldown judder via 2:3 cadence. This is for 24 over 60hz sources such as Netflix.

What is also confusing me is that according to Vincent Teoh, in order to get 1080 lines of motion resolution, BFI must be on max with a dose of interpolation. But how much is a dose? Should Film Mode be on low or high with the said settings? Wouldn't such settings result in the dreaded SOE effect?
 

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