What is the Chroma Bug????????

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by NeilH, Aug 18, 2002.

  1. NeilH

    NeilH
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    I am considering the purchase of a new player, either Denon 3800 or Arcam FMJ27.

    Does this affect both players?
     
  2. magking

    magking
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    The Denon 3800 had the chroma bug when released, but has had a software fix now. Wait to buy one until you get one made after august.
    The Arcam has the bug, but it has hidden it wery good.
    Lots of posts on chroma bug if you do a search here.
     
  3. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    The chroma bug is a fault in the design of many mpeg decoder chipsets used in DVD players. It is an inability to process colour (chroma) information properly. It's hard coded in to the silicon.

    I would therefore be very surprised if any firmware update could fix it. Mask it perhaps but not fix it. Do you have a link to how they manage this?

    Gordon
     
  4. paiger

    paiger
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    Surely, Arcam would have sorted this bug on an FMJ level player.

    Wouldn't they?
     
  5. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    No....

    I believe there are more mpeg decoder chipsets that have this problem than don't. I guess that Arcam chose their chipset based on certain criteria and decided that the "bug" was so rarely evident that the benefits of their chosen chipset outweighed the fault.

    I'm amazed no-one seems concerned that the £10,000 Meridian 800 series has the bug...or perhaps it's just not many folk own them...or see the fault.

    Gordon
     
  6. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    I have said this exactly before on the site Gordon but no one has been able to come up with an explanation on how they work miracles;) perhaps we solder a few caps, resistors to the inside of the chips.:devil: Whats your sm soldering like, better than mine I hope.:D

    The only way is to replace the MPEG decoder chip and this just costs too much money. This 'problem' is more common than people think. My particualr favourite was when sevenoaks told me they had done a SDI mod for Tag DVD player in order to sell me a Delphi plasma. When I, very politely, pointed out that would mean soldering connections to the inside of a chip as it was an 'integrated' chipset (Pantera) they just walked off. Perhaps they are the miracle workers?
     
  7. Charlie Whitehouse

    Charlie Whitehouse
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    Or accept that there's probably ****** all they can do about it! :(
     
  8. gringottsdirect

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    :eek: ......there's me expecting Charlie to give a detailed synopsis (like a million times before) :D .
     
  9. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    poor Charlie has the bug :(
     
  10. magking

    magking
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    Look here Gordon: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=113747
    There are also several threads under DVD hardware at AVS forum, but i cant give you any links as the page is down at the moment.
    Denon Jeff states they have fixed the bug, and people who have had the software upgrade is amased.
    I have not seen it for myself so i cant tell.
    But there is some rumors that the players made after august will have a new chip, not the software upgrade. Thats one of the reasons i have not bought the DVD 3800 yet. The other reason is sofware hack for PAL-P and region free.
     
  11. Charlie Whitehouse

    Charlie Whitehouse
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    Shows does it? :rolleyes: :D

    In all honesty, I'm told that the David has the bug but I can't categorically say I've seen it yet! Perhaps my PJ doesn't have enough resolution? :confused:

    Like I said, ****** all I can do about it! :(
     
  12. juboy

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    I thought Panasonic players (and their clones), even the budget ones, are immune to the CB? If so, why can't other players be?
     
  13. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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  14. juboy

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    I did see your points, which were as well made as ever, but thought it worth mentioning a well-known (and inexpensive) brand as a non-chroma bug option.

    It still strikes me as odd that other makers seem to be basically content to accept the 'one or the other' option, even for very highly priced players.

    Why is it seemingly not possible to maintain 'certain criteria' requirements WITHOUT that entailing living with the CB? Or is it that certain other things inevitably suffer in order to quash the CB?
     
  15. Zacabeb

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    I wonder what specifically causes the chroma bug?
     
  16. Charlie Whitehouse

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    See this earlier thread on the subject. John Dawson of Arcam also gives some insight into why manufacturers are not falling over themselves to fix it....
    :(
     
  17. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    The error is caused by a mistake in the design of the mpeg decoding chipset.

    There are certainly plenty of cheap units that have bug free decoders...just as there are expensive ones without too (TAG anyone...)

    However. Even with the bug, on the vast majority of material, these Arcams have superior picture to any Panasonic or clone I have seen. I'm not a DVD player designer so I don't know what the limitations of each design are. Just what we see when re-playing material through them.

    I'd guess that perhaps if you go with manufacturer "a" 's chipset then you must use some associated hardware. There may be issues with this hardware. Perhaps the company are a pain to deal with for servie or technical back up..or perhaps their parts are too expensive if bought in small quantities or perhaps they will not even supply in the quantities required. I suspect their are many and varied reasons why manufacturers choose the devices they do to use in their products. We can only hope that now the news is out more chipset manufacturers go back and fix the design for future chipsets.

    Gordon
     
  18. juboy

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    ...which is known to maufacturers yet they are content to continue using a product that, put simply, doesn't work properly.

    I wonder if car manufacturers would get away with the excuse that to rectify a fundamental problem with their braking system would 'Cost too much, so we didn't bother. It works fine otherwise though'.

    I believe though, to be fair, that the Zoran chipsets used by both Arcam and Toshiba aren't the worst offenders when it comes to the CB.

    It seems quite clear that they're NOT doing this. Zoran, for example, recently trumpeted the arrival of their Vaddis V chip... which still has the CB. Hmm, they're into FIFTH generation chips and still don't seem in a hurry to eliminate it?

    I guess Gordon and John Dawson's point is basically correct, most people probably don't see the fault, assume it's part of the format or simply don't care either way.

    One thing just occured to me, as, by law, a product has to be 'fit for the purpose' when sold and some manufacturers openly admit that there is a specific problem with their players not being able to play DVDs properly..... I think you can work out the rest.
     

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