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Question What is the best solution?

taggarc

Standard Member
What is the best solution?

Not sure which forum to put this in as it touches on multiple points so please feel free to move.

Issue

I have 4 TVs. The main TV is a recently bought Smart TV which is wall mounted in the sitting room and has a single HIMI cable going to it. LG 43UH603V 43 inch 4K Ultra HD HDR Smart LED TV Freeview Play .

The other 3 TVs are not smart TVs and are post 2008. They all have WF 100 cable going to them. All the WF 100 cable runs back to where the main TV will be in the sitting room and to where the HDMI input cable goes for the main TV.

I only have an internet speed of 3-4 MBPS. The modem for this in the opposite side of the sitting room to where the main TV is and all the return WF 100 cables for the secondary TVs. However, as I have not fitted the skirting boards yet I could run an Ethernet cable or something similar to the central point and any to other wiring that is required to a dish and or aerial etc. (incidentally when testing I get no difference between the speed of my wireless connection, TP links and a direct Ethernet connection).

Desired Outcome

I want to be able to add satellite (if not now at least in the future for football) and watch freeview and or Freesat, in the best quality possible and add a reliable IPTV service. I want to minimise the number of outside wires and boxes or keep them to a sensible number and have as much independent control over the TVs as possible when it comes to changing channels.

In terms of the main TV, I would like to be able to record and play TV back and have a decent EPG. If these facilities could be extended to at least 1 of the other TVs whilst still being able to watch something different then that would be great. I would be quite happy for the other 2 TVs to just have Freeview and or Freestat. All the TVs should be capable of accessing the IPTV service however given the limitations of my internet speed I am guessing this will be limited to 1 TV at a time at best.

What would be the best solution : in terms of cabling, branded boxes, splitters , aerial and dishes etc. for a neat and tidy installation and what would I connect to what ? I live in a conservation area (national park SK17 ) so the smaller or more discrete the aerial and or dish the better. I also want to add a surround sound system to the main TV in the next 6 months. I have all the speaker cables in (5 in total) going back to the same central point.

Many thanks C

PS Note all these TV are wall mounted so it will not be possible to run other cables to them, albeit there are electrical points behind the TVs for power, so something very small and discreet could potentially be added as long as it fitted behind the actual TV.
 
You need at least one satellite cable to each TV, or 2 for recording. Your existing WF100 cables can be used. If necessary terrestrial can be diplexed on to the same cable. But each cable will need a separate connection to the dish so multiple cables to the central point. Also run ethernet cables to each TV. Don't use the PLT units, they are unreliable and cause interference.

As far as running cables to the TV etc, this is unavoidable. HDMI leads from sat boxes, ethernet cables, speaker cables etc. Either use trunking or channel into the wall.

Depending where you live use a zone 1 or 2 dish with an octo LNB to enable 2 feeds to each TV. Type of aerial will depend on signal strength etc, but log periodics are discreet and work in many areas.
 

Rodders53

Distinguished Member
The very first thing to sort out is what you are permitted to do in the way of receiving antennas at your home, where they are allowed to be sited and what they will receive (if anything). Do I need permission?: Peak District National Park

THEN come back and ask more advice... But we'll need a fairly close to your home location to be truly helpful. The Peak District terrain means that reception will vary, sometimes dramatically, from home to home in some parts.

Digital UK - Coverage checker will allow you to (use the 'detailed view') get a prediction of your TV reception and transmitter(s). In 'consumer view' it will tell you which programme channels. Predictions squares are 100m x 100m.

Depending on what you can receive, and whether you can fit an external UHF TV aerial visible from the road(s), or whether it must be hidden from view, or not outside but only in the loft (then what is roof made of?) will determine how your reception might be, type of antenna needed, whether amplification is essential etc.,. etc.,.

Similarly with a satellite dish: These can sometimes be located so they are out of sight or disguised... But it will depend on whether a suitable spot exists on (or near) the building with an unobstructed view of the satellite. Satellite Finder / Dish Alignment Calculator with Google Maps | DishPointer.com can help determine if you can see the Astra satellite @ 28.2 East.

Unless all the TVs have both DVB-T2 and DVB-S2 tuners then you will need some form of decoder / receiver box to feed the sets. Or just have to be satisfied with the terrestrial reception you can get with an aerial.

Once you have the basic DVB-T/T2 reception (aka Freeview) and/or DVB-S2 ($ky/freesat/free to air satellite) reception sorted then you can look at the receiving kit more for PVR and content sharing and the options for that.
 

taggarc

Standard Member
Thanks guys. Now found a bracket where the old dish used to be until relatively recent which is out of sight of any road or bridle way plus there is an old TV aerial at the other gable which looks like it has been there 10 years + so could use that to site another aerial or re-site it closer the replaced dish.

According to the first link I can get 19 standard channels and 6 HD channels with good reception. With regards to the second link I get the following for my potential site: ("Name: 91W GALAXY 17 (G-17) Distance: 42588km Motor Latitude: 53.2° Declination Angle: 7.6° Dish Elevation: ° Elevation: -8.1° Azimuth (true): 269.3° Azimuth (magn.): 270.9° LNB Skew ?]: 36.8°
upload_2017-6-20_15-30-46.png
"). Not sure whether that provides any useful information. Looking at the other satellite dishes nearby they all seem to point southeast 128 degrees, which appears to be doable given the intended site.

All of the existing TVs have freeview but none of them have Freesat.

So my “plan” so far is to run a new CF100 single cable from the aerial and two new CF100 shot gun cables from the Satellite dish behind the skirting to the central point, where the existing 3 separate single CF 100 cables for the secondary TVs all meet and where the main TV is based and has its single HDMI going to the same spot (note all of the existing cables are embedded in a solid wall/ plaster so it is not viable to fit any additional cables).

The plan would be to use the one of the shot gun cables for the main TV’s box, so it can record / replay with a suitable Freesat box being linked to its single HDMI cable, and the other shotgun CF100 cable to potentially feed 2 of the 3 secondary TVs, when they are upgraded in the future with an inbuilt freesat tuners, or fit another free sat box in the central area and use it to do something similar. Presumably I would need a splitter of some sort to split the single aerial feed to the 3 secondary TVs.

What options would the above offer me in terms of control and being able to watch different programs on TVs? For instance could I split the Freesat signal for the main TV to all the secondary TVs so it is available if I wanted it and if I didn’t want to watch the same thing as on the main TV could I watch something different on the secondary TVs using their Freeview / aerial capability and how would I best go about it? Plus if I want to add a surround system for the main TV could I simply link it to its Freesat /recorder and any IPTV box and would the single HDMI cable to the main TV suffice?

Many thanks

C
 

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TJT1

Distinguished Member
Not sure whether that provides any useful information.
You need to change the satellite to 28.2E Astra 2E etc.
You should get figures similar, but not the same as:(unless you live next door to me :D)

Dish Setup Data

Latitude: 50.xxxxx°
Longitude: 0.xxxxx
Name: 28.2E ASTRA 2E | ASTRA 2F | ASTRA 2G
Distance: 38962km
Elevation: 26.2°
Azimuth (true): 145.9°
Azimuth (magn.): 146.3°
LNB Skew [?]: -13.2°
All of the existing TVs have freeview but none of them have Freesat.
Then why do they have dishes? Freesat and Sky stuff comes from the same sat, Freeview is terrestrial from an aerial.
Presumably I would need a splitter of some sort to split the single aerial feed to the 3 secondary TVs.
Depends on the local signal strength prediction (see Rodder's post above). If strong, then a passive splitter would probably do, and if weak, a mast head amp at the aerial and a passive splitter or low gain distribution amp at the distribution point.
For instance could I split the Freesat signal for the main TV to all the secondary TVs
Not if you are talking about the LNB shotgun cable. You can split HDMI though.
I didn’t want to watch the same thing as on the main TV could I watch something different on the secondary TVs using their Freeview / aerial capability and how would I best go about it?
With what you have suggested already by runnung WF100 to each TV form your central point, use the secondary TVs' tuners to tune Freeview.
 

taggarc

Standard Member
Thanks. Put the correct satellite in now - didn't realise it was a drop down. From the graphic shown I don't think I will have a problem lining up to it. I also got the following details back : Name: 28.2E ASTRA 2E | ASTRA 2F | ASTRA 2G Distance: 39241km Motor Latitude: 53.2° Declination Angle: 7.6° Dish Elevation: ° Elevation: 23.2° Azimuth (true): 144.2° Azimuth (magn.): 145.8° LNB Skew [?]: -13.0° .

Re the TVs none of them have dishes. I am moving from a house that had cable and very good broadband, to one that doesn't hence the problem. Sorry for any confusion. Re the splitter will assume that I can get a good signal for now so will go for a passive and upgrade if I have to.

Re could I split (share) the Freesat signal for the main TV to all the secondary TVs. "Not if you are talking about the LNB shotgun cable. You can split HDMI though" How would I go a about this and how would I switch between the two (Freesat and Freeview) given that I would only have 1 separate WF100 cable going into each of the secondary TVs?

Plus if I want to add a surround system for the main TV could I simply link it to its Freesat /recorder and any IPTV box and how could I make the single HDMI cable which is buried into the stone wall to the main TV suffice?

Overall, what would I need to buy and how would I hook it all up given the constraints I have in terms of feeds going into the actual TVs (the distribution/ central point can be fairly flexible) and what would the best boxes / tools / workarounds for the job and resulting constraints be?

Thanks

C
 
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grahamlthompson

In memoriam
Each satellite tuner requires a seperate cable from the lnb on the dish for full capabiliity. You can get lnbs for Sky minidishes with 4 or 8 outputs (plenty of dishes and lnbs on e-bay).

A twin tuner freesat+ pvr needs two cables but you can add the terrestrial signal to one of these cables using a satellite/uhf diplexer to combine onto cable and diplexer to split them out again at the remote end. Unlike an aerial a dish has to be aligned exactly right or you will get nothing. The group of satellites you want orbit 22000mls above the equator vertically above 28.2E, at that distance a tiny error shifts the dish aiming point many miles.

Most boxes have optical (toslink) audio outputs which you can connect to a surround sound amplifier or route the HDMI output via the receiver to the TV. AV receivers have multiple hdmi inputs and one (or more) output. You choose what to view by simply selecting the right hdmi input (or toslink input) on the receiver.
 

TJT1

Distinguished Member
LNB Skew [?]: -13.0°
To accurately get the 'horizontal' and 'vertical' polarisation correct, the LNB has to be twisted in its holder by the specified amount. When looking at the face of the dish, the LNB skew (twist) for the Astra sats at 28.2E is 13.0 degrees in a clockwise direction (at your location). It's not terribly critical, but can be accurately aligned by using a quality meter (or, less successfully, the sig strength/quality readout on your box) by tuning skew for best on H and V tps. As a guide to the angle, the hour markers on a 12 hour clock are 30 degrees apart, so for want of a better guide, put the 'bottom' of the LNB at just before 6:35 o'clock:)
More info on skew etc HERE
 

Rodders53

Distinguished Member
OK. With that info I now know you are on a Freeview Lite transmitter (relay of a main, or relay of a relay). Assuming the TV aerial is working well and no masthead amplification is needed, that will allow any TV to tune to any of those 25 TV channels if you use a mains-powered distribution amplifier to feed each TV from one outlet.
Planning Your TV Installation and all its associated pages are worth reading. Note that about 10 years is a not-atypical lifetime for an outside TV aerial so do go over it thoroughly and consider whether it needs replacing while you are there {and do, do be careful!} ATV`s Choice Of Aerials for digital TV is a great advocate of the log periodic aerial, with sound reasons to do so. But precise choice always depends on location and transmitter. Justin (ATV's owner) may even have some local knowledge of your area!

Satellite: You need to enter your postcode and use the drop down box to change selected satellite to Astra 2E, 28.2 degrees East. That should then give you an overhead satellite image of your locality with a line to the satellite that must have the clear view.

To feed every room you either need a lnb feed cable for each room (and two for PVRs) OR a more expensive distribution system (as used in flats) only requiring four inputs but that can combine both terrestrial and satellite into one cable readily. Installing a multiswitch for multiple satellite points is another 'wealth of information' website worth a read through.

It's also possible to 'modulate' signals from STBs/PVRs: best quality / expensive onto a DTT mini multiplex of your own that the remote TVs could view; or as analogue signals which the TVs should be able to tune to but in much poorer quality.

Other options might include this FVP-4000T | HUMAX-United Kingdom which AFAIK will share content over your home wifi/network (not relying on ISP streaming entirely). But that does need another box connected to each of the other TVs.

There are other alternatives (e.g. Home Theatre PCs with multiple tuners, special software and setup) that might offer similar features; most will require a client player (but things like Roku, Firesticks or Chromecasts may suffice)? It's not my field of expertise.

On the main TV any modern AVR surround receiver should do all you need. It will route all the connected video devices to the one hdmi cable to the TV. Your recently purchased TV should support ARC (audio return channel) so the AVR will even support the TVs internal tuner / apps audio.
 

taggarc

Standard Member
Wow guys thanks for all the really useful information. I am now going to plough through it and see where I get to. Will then probably have to come back and check my understanding as all of this is fairly new to me as I previously lived in a city and benefited from a great broadband service - so not a dish, booster, or aerial in sight ! Plus the wall weren't solid (2ft deep) and lime plastered !

Once again really appreciated - now working through your links Rodders53

Taggarc
 

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