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What is image retention(IR), what is burn information gathering.

Scooby2000

Distinguished Member
OK, theres a LOT of confusion about this, a lot of concern(understandably) and miss information.

The idea of this thread is for those who know about these two specific issues to contribute and teach confused members and visitors to the site.

I mentioned before becoming a mod that I wanted a sticky explaining this in a clear and concise way, so people had a place to look for the facts behind these issues.

I have decided not to do this myself as a little knowledge could cause confusion and debate. I want those who clearly know about this subject well to lay it out. What IR is, how it happens, does/can it lead to burn, how to provent it and how to get rid of it.

Burn is a much talked about fear with plasma, its my understanding its hard to get and takes a long time to happen as its a result of uneven phosphor wear.
I want to know how it happens and why, can IR creat burn, why its unlikely to happen now, what is it, what prevents it and can you get rid, or is it perminent.

Links to accurate information is welcome, use pictures, video whatever to get this over clearly to people.

This thread is not for plasma vs LCD chat, it is not to argue the merits of plasma, or to spread further miss information.
Idealy Id like some pros to cotribute please, this is something that will help a lot of members, especially when the information comes from the big guns we have on here.:)
If there is information already then it needs to be updated and placed somewhere it can be found, ideally a sticky at the top of this forum.

So......

IR.
What is it?.
Why is it.
How to provent.
How to get rid of it.

Burn.
What is it?
Why is it.
How common/rare is it now and why.
Can IR lead to burn.
How do you avoid it.
How do you know you have it rather than bad IR.

No joking, just simple facts to help members. My hope is to start with this thread will help, then I can make a sticky listing clearly the answers to these and any questions Ive missed.

Thank in advance to those who contribute.

oh and discussion is of course welcome as long as its constructive and relivant.
 
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SieHannah

Active Member
From Samsung Plasma TV FAQ

"Image retention is an image appearing on a plasma or other phosphor-based screen after a still picture is displayed for an extended period of time. When a group of pixels are run constantly at high brightness (displaying white, for example), a charge build-up in the pixel structure occurs and a ghost image can be seen. This charge build-up is transient and self-corrects after the display is powered off for a sufficient period of time, or after running random broadcast TV content "

Prevention - Plasmas need a certain amount of settling in. This period varies from set to set but a generally accepted running in period is around 200 hours or so. After this time the panel is much more resistant to Image Retention.

A few tips
Avoid anything with solid logos for too long. Transparent ones are ok since the pixels are changing all the time.

During the run in period avoid extended periods of letterbox material. For example after watching a letterbox movie watch a bit of varied full screen material before watching another one.

Avoid extended watching of channels that have fixed onscreen graphics such as Sky Sports News.

Again, during the run in period avoid extended console gaming sessions with games that have fixed HUDS.

Basically just mix it up. Don't convince yourself that you can't do gaming or watch letterbox movies. As long as you feed your TV a nice healthy varied diet he'll be a happy chappy.

Normal cases of IR will disappear in a few seconds or minutes. Most TVs have scrolling bars that can get rid of more stubborn instances and this can take anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours.

If you get really stubborn IR don't panic. It's NOT screen burn and it's NOT permanent. What you must certainly do is figure out the source of the IR and not watch that channel or play that game until the IR is gone or you'll prolong it's existence. Mixed viewing is the best way to shift it and most important of all - patience. It may take weeks or even a couple of months but it WILL fade away. I am speaking from personal experience as I had the SSN interface stuck on screen for about 2 months but it did go away.

Hope this is useful.

Simon
 
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gangzoom

Well-known Member
I once bought thought I got a bargain after I managed to get one of the last Kuros from my local shop, its was a ex display model and spent most of its life playing a string of logos etc....unfortunately when I got home it was clear the screen has been damaged (Burned). There was a clear streak of black across the middle of the screen which was most noticeable on a white back ground, despite running the "scrolling balck/white bars" for 2 days solid the streaks were still noticeable so I took it back....

Still ended up buying a Panasonic Plasma, and have no problems with IR :)
 

Scooby2000

Distinguished Member
OK disappointing, was hoping members would contribute to this:rolleyes:

I was hoping to gather info from the many experts I know we have on this forum, to give some authority to the information, guess I need to go to plan b and just gather info of the web and make it as accurate as I can.
 

fluxo

Distinguished Member
From Samsung Plasma TV FAQ

"This charge build-up is transient and self-corrects after the display is
powered off for a sufficient period of time, or after running random
broadcast TV content "

Prevention - Plasmas need a certain amount of settling in.

[...]

During the run in period avoid extended periods of letterbox material.
Why should one avoid letterbox material during the run in period?
Is the problem not transient and self-correcting during that time?
 

Scooby2000

Distinguished Member
Why should one avoid letterbox material during the run in period?
Is the problem not transient and self-correcting during that time?
Checkout HD Guru, I have just read a great page on there regarding burn and IR, the sort of information I hope to have available on AVForums some time soon. Id give you a link but but on my phone at the moment. Theres also information on HDTVTest.
 

Fen Star

Well-known Member
I think this thread is a great idea Scooby as it is information I would like to know about I know people will say Google it but I would trust the advice given here before Google....:thumbsup:
 

RedDevil85

Distinguished Member
Not sure if many have noticed but there is a section about IR/Screen Burn in the "About Plasmas" box at the top.

It says......

Screen burn is another term used by sales staff who may try to push a customer towards LCD (or LED) instead of Plasma. Screen burn is more or less a thing of the past and will only ever happen if the Plasma TV is abused, i.e. used in dynamic mode with contrast up full and left on a TV channel with bright logos for a few days. Most modern Plasma screens can stand up to hours of gaming or news channel viewing if done so with appropriate picture settings and for normal periods of time.


Image retention is usually mistaken for screen burn but is a natural by-product of Plasma technology and is not permanent. It is usually seen if the TV is used for a few hours of gaming or news channel viewing where there are static images on screen. After changing from gaming or the news channel, there are graphics or text boxes still seen as a faint 'ghost' over the picture. Image retention usually disappears within a few minutes. The severity of the problem does vary from manufacturer to manufacturer with the effect disappearing from most modern screens within a few minutes. The vast majority of people never notice image retention

:)
 

Scooby2000

Distinguished Member
Not sure if many have noticed but there is a section about IR/Screen Burn in the "About Plasmas" box at the top.

It says......

Screen burn is another term used by sales staff who may try to push a customer towards LCD (or LED) instead of Plasma. Screen burn is more or less a thing of the past and will only ever happen if the Plasma TV is abused, i.e. used in dynamic mode with contrast up full and left on a TV channel with bright logos for a few days. Most modern Plasma screens can stand up to hours of gaming or news channel viewing if done so with appropriate picture settings and for normal periods of time.

image

Image retention is usually mistaken for screen burn but is a natural by-product of Plasma technology and is not permanent. It is usually seen if t
he TV is used for a few hours of gaming or news channel viewing where there are static images on screen. After changing from gaming or the news channel, there are graphics or text boxes still seen as a faint 'ghost' over the picture. Image retention usually disappears within a few minutes. The severity of the problem does vary from manufacturer to manufacturer with the effect disappearing from most modern screens within a few minutes. The vast majority of people never notice image retention

:)
Yes and that is great, but I feel there could be more information that will inform further. This seems a big enough issue to people now that it requires more information IMHO and in a place that people can referance easily.
 

Scooby2000

Distinguished Member
I think this thread is a great idea Scooby as it is information I would like to know about I know people will say Google it but I would trust the advice given here before Google....:thumbsup:
Indeed theres a lot of useful information out there but also a lot of missinformation, or atleast mistaken information. This is a well respected site and a place that offers reliable and informative information on many other things, yet doesnt have clear information on these issues, issues I see in posts every day, so many people dismiss plasma due to missunderstanding screen burn.
 

londonbornpaddy

Novice Member
It's funny but i never worried about IR. I got it badly on my old LG when i played fallout 3 for about two weeks non stop but eventually it went. I have not played many HUD games on the new GT30 but when i was checking for blasted green splodges and ran the grey slides i saw the V+ ( i dont know what you call it ) action logo - as in pause , fast forward, etc etc. I have had the telly on pause for hours and didnt think of that! Its been the equivalent of an HUD for blinking ages. So now it is scrolling bar time if i have to pause live tv!
But to be honest i dont notice it - never would have it hadnt been for looking for green bits! I guess thats the closest problem i might have for eventual burn.
You would think there was a dimming setting for that - like a lot of channels now seem to almost ghost their logo which is obviously in response to IR and burn risks.
 

Jules

Distinguished Member
My view on the Image Retention v Burn debate is that in reality the experience is the same. If your TV retains a ghost image then it looks like it's burned... until it goes away and is replaced with the next ghost image.

So, regardless of what technically causes either, both are unacceptable in my view.... especially in the days of EPG's on digital TV services.

I've had 4 Plasma screens:

- Panasonic 42PWD7 ... bomb proof! Never ever suffered IR or burn.
- Panasonic 42PH10 .... Awful! Retained a ghost image after 5 mins.
- Pioneer Kuro 4280 ... bomb proof! Never ever suffered IR or burn.
- Pioneer Kuro 5090.... really tiny amount of retention when brand new, but after a few hours it became as bomb proof as the 4280.
 

Scooby2000

Distinguished Member
It's funny but i never worried about IR. I got it badly on my old LG when i played fallout 3 for about two weeks non stop but eventually it went. I have not played many HUD games on the new GT30 but when i was checking for blasted green splodges and ran the grey slides i saw the V+ ( i dont know what you call it ) action logo - as in pause , fast forward, etc etc. I have had the telly on pause for hours and didnt think of that! Its been the equivalent of an HUD for blinking ages. So now it is scrolling bar time if i have to pause live tv!
But to be honest i dont notice it - never would have it hadnt been for looking for green bits! I guess thats the closest problem i might have for eventual burn.
You would think there was a dimming setting for that - like a lot of channels now seem to almost ghost their logo which is obviously in response to IR and burn risks.
It shouldn't cause you burn due to the pixel orbiting the set has. This is why this info is needed. The pixel orbiting helps provent burn as does the sliding bar. burn is uneven phosphore wear that takes time. Take a look at HD Gurus detailed report on IR and burn and you will understand how burn is largely prevented. Hate having to tel a member to look elsewhere, we should have this information here. Id be happy to use their info and others to creat something here but Id rather have a one of our well respected experts do it rather than use second/third hand information from other sites, seems crazy to me, this is a leading AV site this sort of information is expected.
 

Scooby2000

Distinguished Member
My view on the Image Retention v Burn debate is that in reality the experience is the same. If your TV retains a ghost image then it looks like it's burned... until it goes away and is replaced with the next ghost image.

So, regardless of what technically causes either, both are unacceptable in my view.... especially in the days of EPG's on digital TV services.

I've had 4 Plasma screens:

- Panasonic 42PWD7 ... bomb proof! Never ever suffered IR or burn.
- Panasonic 42PH10 .... Awful! Retained a ghost image after 5 mins.
- Pioneer Kuro 4280 ... bomb proof! Never ever suffered IR or burn.
- Pioneer Kuro 5090.... really tiny amount of retention when brand new, but after a few hours it became as bomb proof as the 4280.
Indeed bad IR in a way is no better than burn, other than it goes away without causing lasting damage, which is what puts many people off plasma.
I had very bad IR on my PX80, shocking but rather than get burn, in actually improved. My V20 got IR that went quite quickly appart from when I used my PC for some work for a week doh! even that bad IR went in a few days. My GT30 has been great with IR so far.

Its my understanding that all plasmas get IR without exception, as its a byproduct of how the technology works. Its just most is undetected with normal viewing and goes relatively quick with normal viewing or by the set being off.
 

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