What is Dolby Vision?

Discussion in 'General TV Discussions Forum' started by Steve Withers, Sep 1, 2016.


    1. Steve Withers

      Steve Withers
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    2. Toon Army

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      Thanks Steve - Another good article in the current series being published by the team which will be added to my av reference bookmarks. Think I will need a couple of reads to fully digest everything and just hope there is no exam at the end.
       
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    3. Garioch

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      Really interesting article. I look forward to what 2017 will bring. Many thanks!

      Wonder if there are any murmurs of a DV capable projector... progress has been really slow with DV.
       
    4. mikelj

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      Thanks Steve.

      I have read that Dolby Vision was also designed to be delivered over HDMI 1.4, which is another reason why widespread adoption by the TV manufacturers would have been nice.

      Edit: By that I mean to be backwardly compatible with HDMI 1.4.
       
      Last edited: Sep 1, 2016
    5. Dubliner1

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      Great article...and makes me glad I have not jumped into the 4K format yet! Mind you, before all the 4K standards have settled down we'll probably be getting into the next format- 8K Super Hi-Vision in 2020.
      :rolleyes:
       
    6. Steve Withers

      Steve Withers
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      I'm not sure about that, it might be backwards compatible with HDMI 2.0 rather than 2.0a but 1.4 seems unlikely. The real question is can Dolby Vision deliver dynamic metadata without needing HDMI 2.1?
       
    7. mikelj

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      There should be no question over whether Dolby Vision can deliver dynamic metadata over current HDMI - it can work with HDMI 1.4, see Dolby Vision Tries To Set Bar For HDR | HD Guru
       
    8. MikeTheBike2010

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      Great article, very clearly explaining what could easily become incomprehensible in the wrong hands! Thank you.
       
    9. blueboy1873

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      Wonderfully erudite as ever Steve...fab read.:thumbsup:

      Maybe IF Dolby waive their Licencing Fees to the TV manufacturers, is it beyond the realms of possibility this could be the conduit for them to bring more manufacturers on board... unlikely I know, but just a thought.
       
    10. Goldorak

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      Hi Steve
      I am a bit worried about this HDMI 2.1 because dynamic metadata is sooo important irrelevant of hdr10 or Dolby vision
      Samsung Made a proposal a while ago.
      Do you think it is possible we have some kind of consolidation or announcement this year ?
      What is the impact on current tv's if it is hardware? Imagine buying a zd9 and not having dynamic metadata...
      It may take me 3 years to pay for the tv so that will kill me.. Don't care about other improvements
      Your comments welcome !!!
       
    11. Steve Withers

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      I asked a number of manufacturers at IFA about dynamic metadata but I got conflicting answers with some saying that it would require HDMI 2.1 and other saying they might be able to do it with 2.0a. I got the general impression that dynamic metadata wasn't a priority as far as the manufacturers were concerned and that HLG (Hybrid Log Gamma) and HFR (High Frame Rate) were more important now that the UHD broadcast standards are nearing completion. Is dynamic metadata really important at the moment? I also spoke to the BDA who said that dynamic metadata wasn't even included in the specifications for Ultra HD Blu-ray. So if dynamic metadata is introduced on HDR10 it might be primarily for streaming in which case HDMI 2.0a/2.1 would be less of an issue because the TV could decode it internally. If you're waiting to buy a TV, I think the more important aspect is going to higher frame rates because 100p makes a huge difference to watching sport.
       
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    12. snoods

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    13. Goldorak

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      Best answer I have read in a while, thank you @Steve

      I think I am a bit clearer what my next tv needs to be able to do in term of spec. Hlg and Hfr are becoming very important indeed. Only lg seemed to have announced it is included, not sure about the others. Probably an announcement is coming with finalised broadcasting standard.
      I Will keep tuned
       
      Last edited: Sep 4, 2016
    14. Toon Army

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      I find the manufacturers' response somewhat alarming. There a lot of people ( myself included ) wanting to upgrade their displays. We need to be certain about future proofing our purchases if we are going to spend a considerable amount of money. I also want to upgrade my AVR and have the Denon AVR-X4300H in my sights. Do I need to review its spec' as well?
       
    15. Steve Withers

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      Yes you will, if it becomes necessary to use HDMI 2.1 then the receivers will also need to support that version. We're in the middle of the biggest upheaval in TV technology in the last two decades, so unless you absolutely have to buy a TV now, I'd wait to see what gets announced at CES.
       
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    16. zAndy1

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      Geez what a bloody mess, so it's highly likely something like the Sony zd9 as good as it's likely to be might be outdated by next year and be missing some pretty key features. Absolute shambles this whole 4k / hdr roadmap has been with people laying out a lot of money and being left with 2nd rate equipment. Manufacturers owe it to consumers to clarify whether any of this years sets can do hlg or hfr especially Sony who are being very economic with facts and specs just lately
       
    17. Cyprio

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      Just when I thought it was safe to go back.:rolleyes:
       
    18. blueboy1873

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      Not to mention the guys at Spectracal (Stacey Spears) pointed out that the LG OLED'S Not being True 4k 3840 across pertaining to WRGB/RGB. Ok he did add that it may not be visible as alot of content is Upscaled 1080p... but nevertheless when you pay £4,5,6000 for a 4k Display then you expect it is 4k across the whole of the screen. I wonder if Samsung, Sony and Panasonic's TV's are 3840 across?
       
    19. d10brp

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      Is that an up to date comment? I've not heard anyone say that about 2016 OLEDs
       
    20. kevny

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      Yes 2 weeks ago.
       
    21. blueboy1873

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      @d10brp....check out Spike_UK video post on the Philips 901f thread. Brilliant watch.
       
    22. Rodio

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      I got £400 off my KS9000, £170 off Samsung UHDBD player & £500 off Denon 4300. They know something we don't...
       
    23. Billy Goodgun

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      Thanks, Steve. This and your post at #11 have helped me reach a decision. I've been wavering over whether to buy an OLED now the prices have dropped, and have come so close several times, but it's a no for now. I know I definitely want an OLED - I've literally never seen a better picture - but I'll wait until next year and see what gets announced at CES, pick up a 2017 model.

      Appreciate the candour.
       
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    24. blueboy1873

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      Dynamic metadata isn't manufacturers priority, as they will now market HLG/HFR and squeeze every ounce out of the consumer. And then in 12months it will be how they are embracing the all new version of HDR (dynamic metadata) as a must have feature to coincide with a new range of their latest TV tech. And yes I get the fact they are an evolving business not a charity...but the trust lines are wearing thin, for me the Industry has created this monster. #consumerexploitation

      The rapacious nature of display AV Tech atm is frightening, as Steve said the AV industry is in Upheaval, the like of which we haven't seen in two decades.
       
    25. Goldorak

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      Let's hope ces January will bring the answers we need

      Was upset that pana didn't release an Oled but blessing in disguise. This will give them time to improve and get it right. Same for lg and the others

      Q1 best time to buy a tv anyway (especially 2016 which are much cheaper) and we will hopefully know if they are future proof enough

      The new crop will be announced too so enough choice to make a good enough decision :)
       
    26. d10brp

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      It was a great video, only finished it last night. Parts of the second half were lost on me but the rest was a real eye opener.

      Basically, HDR is a mess. HDR10 isn't a long term solution and even where it is being used, the people producing the media don't know how to set up the metadata and the TVs don't have consistent standards for interpreting the metadata.

      DV solves all of the problems but Dolby, unsurprisingly, want cash for doing so. I do wonder how much Dolby are charging if nobody will bite.

      There isn't much in the video or in the wild about how many pixels the LG OLEDs have if not 1-for-1 4K. Don't think it would present any issues based on 4K content I've viewed so far but would be interested in finding out exactly what they do do.

      On a side not, started watching the Quantum Dot episode after. Normally I see articles about Quantum Dot where some Samsung VP stands up and says perfect blacks aren't a big deal and I switch off and read something else but the discussion on the Netcast is really interesting and I'm not even a quarter in.
       
    27. Ian_S

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      Where on earth is HFR going to come from?

      Given that until recently all sport we could watch was only 50i, the jump to actual 4K 50p is significant and only just here. 100p which doubles the data rate again seems like extreme wishful thinking, especially as the likes of Sky/BT aren't even doing HDR at normal frame rates.

      Also, just how many films are being shot now in HFR?

      Seems like an even bigger red herring than HDR if you ask me. The one thing HFR *will* mean is a new HDMI hardware revision as you'll be looking at ~30mbps+ over HDMI to deliver it.

      It's a complete and utter joke IMO. If Dynamic HDR10 can't even work on UHD BD, then the manufacturers should just shut up and adopt DV. At least it has some QC and removes the pathetic mess that is HDR10 tone mapping between different manufacturers.

      No-one then needs a new HDMI revision, we just need the TV makers to commit to adding HLG to existing HDR TV's to cope with any HDR broadcasting.

      If the AV industry wants to stop enthusiasts buying high end kit, and just sell cheap tat instead every year, then they're doing a damn fine job...
       
    28. WonkyEwok

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      Thanks for putting all this together in on place. Can I check one thing?
      "Another reason is that the highly specified disc format with its larger bandwidth and greater consistency doesn’t really need Dolby Vision to deliver an excellent HDR experience."
      To me, that seems to be implying that bandwidth alone (using HDR10) is enough make HDR work well as an end-to-end system. Is that what it's supposed to mean?
       
    29. Ian_S

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      Sounds like gobbledygook to me.

      The problems with HDR10 are nothing to do with bandwidth, but instead it's lack of ability to fine tune the HDR by scene, a dark scene is very different to a bright one, and also the fact that with HDR10 it;s up to the device manufacturer to work out the correct mapping. With DV, Dolby get involved and make sure it's right. As we've seen already with HDR10, all bar Samsung have mapped to 1000 nits, and clip above that. The 1000 nit figure being because that's what's required apparently to achieve PremiumUHD Alliance certification. LG are a prime example (maybe the only one right now) as their HDR10 mapping clips, but their DV one does not...

      The *mess* with HDR10 then seems to get worse as there's no fixed maximum nits value that content should be mastered to, so some is 1000 nits and some is 4000 nits. Again with Dolby this whole process is fixed, and the mastering done to one standard.

      So as usual, as well as Open Source meaning 'free for all' it also means a 'free for all' neither of which really add up to either a consistent experience, or free for the consumer, as ultimately it's us that pay quite literally for all these mistakes.
       
    30. captainhody

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      Soon to be called Dodovision as it will go the way of Betamax and HDDVD.
       

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