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What goes to receiver Pre-Out

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by meep, Jun 11, 2003.

  1. meep

    meep
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    Hi All,

    Thinking about putting in a stereo amp to compliment my Pioneer VSX-2011 receiver and drive my fronts for both music & movies.

    A question that has tickled me for some time is as per the thread title; what exactly goes out of the recceiver pre-out? Is it a pure pass-through of the input or does it have all receiver processing applied (delays, effects etc.) and is truely the last chance saloon to get the signal out of the box before the amps take over?

    On a related point, is there any need to look at an integrated amp for this kind of work (one with fixed gain input such as Arcam A75+ or A85) or will a power amp suffice just as well.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but I suppose use of an integrated will allow selection of a unit which might provide better processing of the stereo CD signal? But if this is done in the CD player anyway, does this matter?

    Thanks for the groups continued patience.

    Peter
     
  2. sounddog

    sounddog
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    Okay ... to answer your first question ... the signal that is presented at the "pre-outs" is exactaly the same signal that is routed internally to the AV Amps power amp section. That is it's after all the processing / decoding / etc has taken place.

    Now if you want to improve stereo ... you could take the route of just adding a power amp. A lot of people have said this has improved music ... but in my experience it doesn't. The only reason for adding a power amp is to improve the amps ability to drive particulatly difficult (4ohm, etc) speakers. The reason for this (IMO) is that within a AV Amp, the section that is MOST compromised (for music) is not the power amps, but the pre-amp section.

    Now if you add an integrated stereo amp, not only are you replacing the power amps, but you're also giving analogue signals a much cleaner path through a pre-amp section. You need to connect your CD player (plus Tuner, Turntable, etc) to inputs on the integrated amp, along with the pre-out for the front channels from your AV amp (a fixed level like on the A85, A80, A75+, etc makes life easier but isn't essential). Now when listening to music, your AV amp isn't involved at all.

    The point at which this all breaks down is if you wish to use DSP effects (DTS:Neo 6, PLII Music, etc) when listening to music - in which case adding an integrated amp is pointless and you should just use the digital input for CD.

    Vikki
     
  3. meep

    meep
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    Vikki

    Thanks for yet another to the point reply.

    Peter
     
  4. Jeffers01

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    Thanks Sounddog. This is the most useful reply I've read on this issue and it's got me thinking all over again......

    Jeff
     
  5. JIT

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    So, if using only a receiver for music you recommend using digital from CD player to receiver instead of phono connections?
     
  6. wookie

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    DPLII DTSNEO etc are digital.
    Sending the amp a digital signal should be better than an analogue as it will not have to be re D-A'd.
     
  7. wookie

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    Just use a single phono to do a cheap check before parting with reddies for a "better cable":D
     
  8. sounddog

    sounddog
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    If you just want stereo ... then it depends on the quality of the DACs in your CD player and your AV amp, and the quality of any analogue bypass. Basically get a cheep interconnect (as wookie says any single phone) and try both analogue and digital connections.

    If you are using DPLII, Neo6, etc ... then you may as well just use the digital connection as the AV amp has to convert from analogue to digital as the first thing before it can create DPLII, Neo6, etc effects.

    Vikki
     
  9. meep

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    And an ancillary question....

    Assuming a system so configured (A/V receiver with front l/r pre-outs to an integrated amp), how does one wire in a sub-woofer.

    In my case, I have reasonably small fronts (B&W CDM 1NTs). The sub out of my pioneer goes direct to my Velodyne cht-15 and this works great for movies and music - even in direct mode, the sub handles low end on stereo.

    Now, if I add an extra amp - how can I continue to employ the sub to fill in bass in two channel mode (assume CD connected to integrated stereo amp) and be used for multi-channel movie audio as well?

    My sub has both speaker level and line level in/outs but the manual cautions against connecting both.

    (Any pointers to previous threads discussing this much appreciated as I have no ikdea what I should be searching under)

    Thanks

    Peter
     
  10. ditton15

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    I thought about this but, warning, have not tested:

    CDplayer -> [analogue] -> stereo amp -> L/R speakercable -> Sub. -> L/R speakers

    as stated in the Velo manual, but then

    DVDplayer -> [digital] -> AVamp - L/R pre-out - stereo amp - L/R speakercable -> L/R speakers

    is what is wanted, with AVamp -> Sub for the LFE.

    So it looks like lots of unplugging.

    Solution would seem to be to get larger speakers to act as stereo mains. If there's a solution to this I'd like to know - then I might, in time, consider replacing the Dittons with something like the D'Avias.
     
  11. meep

    meep
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    I wonder...

    Would setting Sub to NO in receiver set-up then pass full LFE channel to front l/r? That being the case, could we do this;

    Receiver l/r Pre-Out ---> Integrated Amp --> Speaker Out --> Sub Speaker Level In --> Sub Speaker Level Out --> Speakers

    Then, use only the subs cross-over settings to abstract the bass and send the rest to the speakers.

    This appears to be a way of using the sub for both stereo and movies. However,
    would there be any degradation in the all round experience, particularly in the bass end for movies.

    Is Uncle Eric about?

    Peter
     
  12. ditton15

    ditton15
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    the intention is surely to avoid the AVamp when playing music.
     
  13. meep

    meep
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    Well,

    My solution does avoid the av amp. When playing music, the integrated amp sends output to the sub which passes it on to the speakers. Receiver nowhere in the chain.

    However, the question arises in playing moview, will this wiring get full LFE/.1 information from a multi-channel sound track?

    Thanks

    Peter
     
  14. ditton15

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    I suspect not. It will deliver some bass to the L/R of the front stage, though not the centre. I doubt whether it would deliver the LFE as specified by The Director.

    But as you say, we need an UncleEric-like figure to enlighten.
     
  15. sounddog

    sounddog
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  16. meep

    meep
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    Thanks again Vikki

    that thread supplied the answer - amazing what a little lateral thinking can do!

    Peter
     

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