What facilities are you missing going from VCR to DVD recorder ?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by GoldFish, Jun 29, 2004.

  1. GoldFish

    GoldFish
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    Just wondering if there is/are any facilities you missing going from VCR to DVD recorder.

    For me when I replaced my faulty Panasonic VCR (cannot remember the exact model number think it is ??820??) with the Tosh RDXS32 I missed the teletext subtitle recording. And last but not least the VCR also chews up future mother in-law's corrie tape :devil:

    Comments welcome
     
  2. apreading

    apreading
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    Manual recording level settings.

    The ability to watch part of a program now, and pick up where I left off either on another VCR or at a later time without having to find the point I was at.

    Both minor niggles though and I do not lose any sleep over them - the plusses far outweigh them, but you DID ask...
     
  3. GoldFish

    GoldFish
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    Apreading, I thought all DVD recorders have the audio level input control, what make/model of recorder have you got ?
     
  4. apreading

    apreading
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    Panny E-85
     
  5. GoldFish

    GoldFish
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    Ahh E85… that was the machine I had on top of my list when I was looking for the VCR replacement but I went for the Tosh in the end, not because of the price difference or facility difference but for the –RW support.

    I am surprise that Panasonic leave the manual recording level adjustment out.
    Apreading, not trying to offend, but the Tosh do offer independent L&R adjustments/settings for all different input sources !!
    Tosh is not perfect either as it did not have its own RF out, only loop thro'

    Well, more niggles to add to my list

    RF out with selectable channel
     
  6. apreading

    apreading
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    I dont think the Tosh was around when I bought my E85. I kinda 'lucked' into it anyway without doing any of my normal research when my old DVD player broke and the kids were screaming that they couldnt watch their favourite films - at half term! Had to get something in 24 hr turnaround and just got turned on by the idea of the Panny.

    One thing I REALLY needed was PAL60 output of NTSC discs as my TV doesnt accept proper NTSC - which really restricted me. I dont know if the Tosh would have done that?

    No too worried about the levels thing as it isnt a problem under normal circumstances.

    Would REALLY have liked the -RW support though. Not having that forced me to get a Panny DVD player for the bedroom as the missus often wants to watch stuff upstairs that we have taped off the telly and I didnt want to keep wasting -Rs so needed to find a player with RAM support.

    Have read stuff recently that implies the Tosh is alot poorer for editing facilities though? Can you do partial erase, or do you have to split the file and delete the unwanted bits?
     
  7. GoldFish

    GoldFish
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    One thing I REALLY needed was PAL60 output of NTSC discs as my TV doesnt accept proper NTSC - which really restricted me. I dont know if the Tosh would have done that?

    Cannot answer this question as my telly seems to work ok with both NTSC and PAL.


    Have read stuff recently that implies the Tosh is alot poorer for editing facilities though? Can you do partial erase, or do you have to split the file and delete the unwanted bits?

    The Tosh dose have its limitations in that you will notice the momentary video freezing at the joining points, have a look my posts at the thread

    http://www.avforums.com/frame.html?http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138097

    Just wondering if you can try out similar editing on your machine and enlighten us with your outcome. :lease:
     
  8. apreading

    apreading
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    I dont really understand much of what is being said in that thread about chapter points. Do you have to divide the title in order to do edits?

    On the E85 I can do a partial erase which lets me select (apparently frame accurate as far as I can tell) start and end points for removal from the title. If I can recall correctly this gives a seamless edit with no pause (will double check tonight, but I certainly assumed it did and didnt notice anything to contradict this).

    If I divide the title into 2 files there is a slight pause as it switches to the next file though, and no option to recombine the files.

    I can mark chapters within a title without dividing the file - these are just bookmarks to points in the file and dont cause any pausing.

    When I did my one and only (so far) burn to DVD-R, it creates a menu selection for the titles written to disc. It did not create menu entries for the chapters within the titles on there - these seem to have been lost at create time, although this may be because I hadnt made the recording in "enable fast dubbing to DVD-R" mode, so the files had to be played back and re-encoded to the DVD-R which could well be why the chapter info was lost. Need to do more testing of this...

    I would be interested to understand better how the editing is done on the Tosh by comparison.
     
  9. GoldFish

    GoldFish
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    Thanks for the reply, I know it is off topic but for the benefit of myself and other forum member who are still in search of ‘seamless editing' on DVD recorder I will make an attempt to describe / explain the tests I conducted.

    The functions of the machines might very similar but different terminology used.

    Here goes…..

    First I record a length of 1 minute test video (I call it TEST-A) with something moving continuously. For example the clock movement as in the CH4's day time game show ‘COUNTDOWN'

    I then chapter mark this 1 minute video clip at mid-point. Please note that the video clip TEST A is still as one file on the HDD, but if you look at the property of this file, it is now consists of 2 chapters where the 1st chapter is the length of the movie clip TEST-A starting from (time) 1st seconds to 30th second and the second chapter is starting from 31st second to the 60th second.
    Are you still with me ? good

    I then make a copy of this ‘chapter-marked' video clip on the HDD and name it TEST-B

    I then create a play list asking the machine to play back the 1st chapter from file TEST-A (time starts from 01 second to 30 second) and joining the second half from file TEST-B (time start from 31 second to 60 second)

    Now when I get the machine to play the play -list, I detect a momentary glitch at the joining point from time 30th second to 31st second. However if I were play back the original file TEST-A or the copied file TEST-B there is, they both are ok. Must admit this short of joining editing is not something I use and for over 9 hours of my old footages of home made video, all my edits and joining points were seemed to be seamless.

    If you are still interested in how the Tosh operates
    Forum member nunew33 is hosting the Tosh user manual on this site.

    http://www.williamnunez.com/Tosh/tosh.htm
     
  10. apreading

    apreading
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    Now that is just SAD! :laugh:

    Very useful insight - esp the link to the user manual, will read that later.

    To save me having to totally digest the manual, can you give a potted version of how you remove an ad break from a recording?

    Cheers :smashin:
     
  11. RBJTech

    RBJTech
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    apreading - with regards to the 'play where you left off niggle' why not just create an instant chapter point (on the E85, just press the 'chapter' button whilst playing..) and jump to this when you next view. Only works for HDD or unfinalised DVDR recordings but could make your niggle less of an issue ?

    :)
     
  12. GoldFish

    GoldFish
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    There are many ways of which this can be achieved.

    The method I use is

    Chapter-marked the period of the ads (Page 90 of the operators manual)
    Select the ad chapters and delete. (Page 118 of the operators manual)

    Alternative method is to create a play list to miss out the ads (of course you have to do chapter marks first)

    Another way is (not my choice as It takes up HDD space) using high speed dubbing to remove the marked ads chapters

    Just for the record I have managed to record a few films from CH5/ITV and successfully removed the ads out with frame accuracy and with no glitches. It is Just this test suggested by a forum member (Normandy16) that highlighted the video pausing/freezing problem on the Tosh.

    I agreed the manual is huge but it needs to be to reflect the many many features it offers. I did not find it complicated, just a bit too much to learn on how to make best use the features… this brings back memories to the early days on learning how to use MS-Office...... :rolleyes:
     
  13. GoldFish

    GoldFish
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    I do not think there are many (if any) stand alone DVD player will play unfinalised DVD-R/DVD-RW.
     
  14. RBJTech

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    Goldfish - sorry I think you may have missed my point - all I was saying is that rather having the hassle of finding where you last viewed up to on a recorded session (be it on HDD, DVD-R, DVD-RW or DVD-RAM on the same machine) then by creating a chapter point you can easily jump to it....

    As I said, for finalised or commercial recordings this ain't gonna work...
     
  15. GoldFish

    GoldFish
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    Teeerex

    Not intending to be rude, but I was referring to
    [The ability to watch part of a program now, and pick up where I left off either on another VCR]
    Please accept my apology if my previous post make you feel offensive.
     
  16. RBJTech

    RBJTech
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    No offence taken - no need to apologize - just peoples differing interpretations of what's being asked ...
     
  17. Kevo

    Kevo
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    I miss the good old rew and ffwd on VCRs. 'Skip' on DVDs just isn't as precise.
    Also insert edit, audio dub, basic assemble edit features.

    Lets face it, if you want to do some half decent editing with the digital format then you're best off using video editing software on a PC.
     
  18. GoldFish

    GoldFish
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    Actually now reading you post again, for anything I played back from my HDD, Tosh seems to remember the point when I last stopped (not 100% sure, I will confirm this tomorrow, unless other Tosh owner beat me to this)
     
  19. RBJTech

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    Kevo - I'm not sure I agree with you about the FF and Rewind precision issue - surely you have from frame advance to high speed FF & Rewind options - what could be more precise than that ? Agree entirely on the editing comment though ...
     
  20. GoldFish

    GoldFish
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    There is a variable speed picture search on both forward and reverse directions on the units I encountered. Can I ask what machine have you got ? Agreed re the audio dub/voice over facility.

    More niggles to add :

    Audio dub / voice over.
     
  21. GoldFish

    GoldFish
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    Teeerex you beat me to it.
     
  22. Kevo

    Kevo
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    No, I miss a good old fashioned jog shuttle dial that doesn't skip anything when you're doing basic editing or simple searching. Much more intutive and accurate.

    But agree that the high speed FF and time slip feature (Pan E100) are much better for getting to parts quickly.
     
  23. Kevo

    Kevo
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    The FFWD and REV on my Pioneer DV 717 are USELESS. Never able to get to the point I want on the first attempt.

    The Pan E100 is marginally better.
     
  24. tabatha

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    Compared with the Panasonic, removing ad breaks on the Toshiba RDXS32 is tortuous. It does not have a direct equivalent of the Panasonic "Divide" or "Partial Erase".

    On the RDXS32 you go through the original recording marking "Chapter" points at the start and end of every ad break. You then have a number of chapters alternating between programme and ad-break. You then either create a playlist containing just the chapters you want to keep (programme) or delete the chapters (ad breaks) you want to dispose of. The first method means the ads are still on the hard disk, the second method deletes them from within what Toshiba call the "Title". The playback does not seem "gapless" when using the chapter delete method. As a picture is worth a thousand words, I have made a demo of the "chapter create/delete chapter" method as a DIVX file. This shows the ads before a programme and the first ad break being made into chapters and then being deleted. Then you see how the start looks and how the "join" works where the deleted ad break was.

    You can downloaded it from:

    http://www.streamload.com/mp3vault/RDXS32EditDemo.zip


    When the edited file is played back, you will notice the clock freeze momentarily where the deleted ad break chapter was. The file is DIVX5 and around 75Megs and quite reasonable quality. I could code a far lower quality version if anyone wants it but you probably would not be able to see what was going on in the little boxes etc.

    If anybody is interested in "seeing" other functions, let me know and I'll see what I can do.
     
  25. GoldFish

    GoldFish
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    :offtopic:

    tabatha

    Took me a while to download your file…. And yes I can confirm that my Tosh doses more or less the same at the joining points as shown on your video clip. Not a problem for me on removing ad breaks as I tend to join/edit them at the static screen. I have also complied many pop songs onto a disk and the glitches were not noticeable (perhaps the change of scene masks/hides the problem.) I am very new to this digital-age recording movie editing, could you enlighten us how the same editing can be achieved on the Pany and the Pio just to fulfill my curiosity.

    Back on topic.

    More niggles :

    Fading in and fading out on video/sound.
     
  26. wilby

    wilby
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    The one thing I miss from my old (panny) vid is that you could press QTR (Quick Time Record) and Timer record. In this way it would tape until the end of the QTR bit and then go into timer standby for a.n.other programme which I may have wanted to record on another day but might not have been round to press QTR

    Probably makes no sense to anyone else but me !!

    All this being said, having the E85 is splendid, no more scrabling on the floor for tapes, the ability to cut out adds, timeslip etc etc etc

    Wilby
     
  27. GoldFish

    GoldFish
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    confirmed

    For any title (programe) recorded and played on HDD, the Tosh will automatically rememberd the stopping point !!

    Just like having many VCR tapes on hand !! :D
     
  28. Paul O

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    I am going to miss the reliability of the VCR. Just shoving a tape in, hitting the record button and knowing that it will just do the job asked. :clap:

    My DVD player would still be analysing the disc by the time I'm walking out of the door. Good ol' video!

    Never got a "Bad Disk" type message for a video tape half way through recording either....... :rolleyes:
     
  29. HMHB

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    I found that the latest model VCRs were quite poor and annoying when FF or RW as when you press stop it would carry on for about 5 minutes more, so you could never actually stop at the point you wanted :mad:
     
  30. Rolly Coaster

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    I took delivery of a Pioneer DVR-520 yesterday and, unless I'm doing something wrong setting it up, I don't seem able to tune any of our TV's in to the RF output like the old VCR (and the sky+ box) did. This is going to be a BIG draw back for the kids and for viewing in the kitchen if I can't distribute the signal around.
     

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