What external mic to purchase for Legria HF G30?

Discussion in 'Camcorders, Action Cams & Video Making Forum' started by Benus279, Feb 15, 2014.

  1. Benus279

    Benus279
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    BTW thanks for the advise on my previous posts.

    I have a Canon Legria HFG30, and as I have spent so much on it, I might as well spend a bit more and purchase an external mic as I assume that it will make the sound output a bit better?

    So can someone point me to an external mic that will do the job without breaking the bank...again!:)
    Thanks - Ben
     
  2. rogs

    rogs
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    The 'best type' will depend on what you hope to achieve with your external mic?
    Unfortunately, audio is not like video...With video , if you want to 'get in close', you use a zoom (an optical one of course - digital zooms are rubbish! :) ).
    You can't do that with audio (well, you can sort of using 'shotgun' mics, but decent ones cost an arm and a leg).
    So if you buy an extra mic to attach directly to the camera body, then you may get some improvement in your recorded audio, but you'll still have the problems of the mic probably being too far from the source, and the problems with ambient noise and room 'echo' that go with that.
    And of course you will still pick up most of the camera handling noises, and maybe zoom lens .. and/or internal fan noises? (At least the problems with picking up tape transport noise are a thing of the past.!)

    So you may not notice much improvement....

    Alternatively, if you feel you might like an external mic to fit remotely.. say for recording interviews for example, where placing the mic close to the interviewee gives much better results ... then you might be looking for a hand held mic?

    Depends what your expectation are..... as I say, many camcorder mounted mics for recording 'ambient' audio can tend to give disappointing results, with only a marginal improvement over the internal mics.........
     
  3. Benus279

    Benus279
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    Thanks rogs.
    I will have to have a think as it is only for family films, new puppy etc. My cousin gets married next month so I was just hoping to get the best I can do for this occasion.
     
  4. rogs

    rogs
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    If you do think a camera mounted mic might improve things a bit, then something like this gets good reviews: RODE VideoMic with Rycote Lyre Mount: Amazon.co.uk: Musical Instruments

    Two advantages....
    1) the Rycote Lyre mount should halp alot with the handing noise problem I mentioned earlier.
    2) It's from Amazon ..... if you don't think it makes a significant enough improvement for the money, you can return it!

    One further point..... I think it's quite large?.....might need to check the dimensions. Probably bigger than your camera!
     
  5. Terfyn

    Terfyn
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    These days the cameras have "directional mics" built in. For example my Panny HC-V 700 will concentrate the sound field depending on the amount of zoom used. If I use headphones it is possible to hear the change in the sound when the zoom is used.
    IMO there is little advantage in mounting a mic on the camera but great advantage if you can locate the mic on an extension lead to be close to the sound source. So for the wedding, a mic located discreetly close to the couple will do a much better job.
     
  6. chrishull3

    chrishull3
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    Its a question of price, the built in mic is good on the HF-G30,but the Rode Stereo mic i owned before the HF-G30 gives realy brilliant sound on my G30,the sound quality is realy good and any mic needs a wind muff for outdoors unless it dead calm.
     
  7. Terfyn

    Terfyn
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    Again the location of the mic is so important. A wedding in a church, for example. A mic local to the couple and priest will pick up the sound clearly but a mic, remote on the camera, will pick up the sound PLUS echos, congregation and so on. So even if you choose the Rode mic, it needs to be located near the happy couple and not on the camera.
    Outside a wind muff (deadcat) is essential. I was disgusted at the price Rode charged for theirs, so I made my own. Buy a sheet of filter foam from an aquarium suppliers and some faux fur from a hobby shop. Make a cylinder to fit over the mic from the foam and an envelope of the fur to fit the foam cylinder. The trick is to create a space of STILL air around the mic capsule but (obviously) let the sound through. Mine worked well recording a moving steam train from outside the carriage window. (air speed 30-40 mph)

    IMG_0158_zpsa9da6a06.jpg Photo by Terfyn | Photobucket
     
  8. chrishull3

    chrishull3
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    There are plenty of options,personaly i have never found the need to record with mics off camera but its true some filming requires it,no cinema movies record sound on the cameras.
    The examples first with the modern RSVM and the second old hdv film with its large predecessor only recording sound quality given it by the speakers.
     
  9. rogs

    rogs
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    Excellent examples to illustrate how different audio 'scenarios' give such variable results.
    The first one shows the Rode mic in an outdoor wildlife 'ambient' situation. Sounds very nice.. clean, low noise floor, good dynamics.
    The second one may also actually have good quality mics ... but you'd never know, because the music is recorded at some distance from the source (the loudspeakers) and in a large 'echoey' room. Result is not good. In that situation, a direct feed from the music mixer would have given much better results. (Usually not available, except perhaps to an 'official' videographer at the venue?....)

    But there are some situations where mic placement can make a difference. The following (very!) short clips show what i mean.....
    I wanted to test out a wind shield I had made for a 'lav' mic. Needed to be outdoors obviously, and I needed a 'willing' volunteer - so I persuaded my wife to say something ... anything... to carry out the test. She managed to come up with a few words - mostly nonsense -( as usual:))

    So i had 2 audio tracks. My voice from the camera mics -- her voice from the lav mic she was wearing.

    With each of those mics too far away from one of us, only both tracks mixed would work satisfactorily....

    There's a short video clip with the final 'mixed' audio here:

    www.jp137.com/lvs/north.mp4

    (it's only about 6MB, and about 15 seconds long)

    Here is the audio file that the mics in the camera recorded -- (complete with lens zoom and wind noise!) (it's only about 250K)

    www.jp137.com/las/northcam.mp3

    And here's what the lav mic recorded (not much wind noise - the wind shield worked quite well!)

    www.jp137.com/las/northlav.mp3

    It's only a bit of nonsense of course, but it does illustrate how mic 'placement' can make quite a difference, in certain video situations.....
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2014
  10. Terfyn

    Terfyn
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    Point well made! Put the mic where the sound is and not expect the camera mics to do a good job except in ideal conditions.
     
  11. chrishull3

    chrishull3
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    Sorry but i cant let this go,i was the official videographer at the show and there was no way i was allowed to to put feeds from the music mixer,the sound on the film may not sound good to you but whether you believe it or not it is as good as the sound at the event,i suggest you email the organiser and ask him how happy he was with the full DVD and ask how many they sold for the charity [email protected] his email .Perhaps unless you know the facts its best to keep quiet,the clothes were the main thing at the event not the quality of the music which was not up to the standard of Glastonbury in the old school Hall where i only had a small alcove to film in.

    Another event,interesting what the put the mic where the sound is would do,bearing in mind the the live sound was again not pop festival standard.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2014
  12. rogs

    rogs
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    No wish to cause any offence Chris...I merely commented on a piece you posted - in a public forum - which I thought illustrated very well just how difficult it is to get a good recording of things like 'disco' type music, which can never sound good in a large reverberant room anyway.
    Add to that the fact that the mics were at some distance from the source, and you have a good example of the things we are talking about in this thread?....
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2014
  13. Terfyn

    Terfyn
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    Is this not a case of practicing what, we as a forum, preach? Would a Zoom near the speakers have picked up the sound better? (Presuming, of course you (a) have a Zoom or equivalent and (b) you could locate it in a safe place)
    The point is that sound is better near the source and video far away relatively speaking.

    On the Ffestiniog tomorrow so will try to practice what I preach. I guess it will be a Yoga plus wind muff mounted on the camera! Could ask the driver to hold the mic - unless he is busy of course.:D
     
  14. chrishull3

    chrishull3
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    Ok but you must appreciate there is little else that could have been done,audience sound and the frequent speach introductions every new set of models and fashions were all needed in the sound,the full 2hr show sound on a reasonable tv sounds not bad as the organiser will hopefully confirm.
     
  15. theprestige

    theprestige
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    This Olympus LS-12 really has been a great buy. Really happy with it..I mean, I didn't even have my subject close to it and it was aimed towards them but pointing towards their waste and the audio was STILL significantly better than the Shotgun Microphone I have. Unreal.

    Speaking of which, what do you guys think I should do with the Rode Shotgun Rycote Microphone ? I spent like 70 quid on it and I feel like now that I have the Olympus, it feels redundant. It's got far too much hiss, the gain is located where battery is located (!) and the audio only seems to shin if you have it really close up.

    Is there a reason why I should keep it? Am I underestimating it? Anybody else fancy buying it?
     
  16. wcndave

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    Hi there, I was in the same position as you, HF G30 and what mic to get...

    I already have an XLR condenser singing mic, however no one wants to hold that, and my XLR hardware is not portable.

    I got a shotgun mic for general daily use. This is much better than the internal mics, although the G30 is not too bad cf to old camcorders.

    I then got some wireless lav mics for interviews, and found they had a lot of crackle, probably cos I got cheap ones.

    I then realised that events (which I do quite a lot of), I needed to be able to hook into the mixing desk feed to get anything decent (and to ensure I could have a full track of music for example, despite the fact I was running around pretending my one camera was 3). So I really needed a separate audio device. Then I also need to record music / speeches / atmosphere at events with no mixer, say an accordion group, again need a clean audio take with lots of angles and b-roll from video. I therefore decided to get a Zoom H4n, which is awesome. I can leave it on a mini tripod next to source and record video from where I want, I can plug it into mixer desk, I can do both on separate tracks! I can use it for wireless and XLR lav mics for interviews, the built in mics are good, it just covers all the bases, and is really the only sensible kind of solution for a one man camera "team".

    So, you need Zoom, Lav mics, XLR cables, shotgun mic, and then to mix all that in post edit.

    Probably not what the OP wants in terms of taking film of the dog. So to come back to the OP question, if they are feeling flush, get a shotgun mic, like the rhode one, otherwise don't bother.

    For anything you want to make into a really great video however, I have heard, read and now found that audio is probably more important than video, so it's a tough call for a "family camera".
     

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