Answered What do you think of LG's pricing for OLEDs?

[encaser]

Now that we've seen just how much LG is charging for all their models and, moreover, what the competition is with LG sourced panels, do you feel the pricing is fair? LG promised price breaks for consumers and yet is going the route of supplying panels to its competition instead.
Let's consider that, at the top, the LG 77" models are £20K for the G7 and £25K for the W7 and yet the Loewe Bild 7.77 is £12990. How is this even possible when the Loewe panel is LG sourced and they are a premium (read typically expensive, high quality) manufacturer/supplier?
Similarly, we are soon to have Panasonic with their EZ952 55" and 65" models which are both competitively priced to LG's B and E models - at either the same or lower respectively. And the same can be said for Sony, Toshiba and it's rumored 'bargain' models and Philips and the ever increasing host of 'joiners' to the OLED club!
I feel the above certainly brings into question cost margins. Yes, LG developed/finalized OLED with, ultimately a bought technology, but should consumers expect to see a real price drop and see LG make their money from increased sales in line with more competitive pricing to LED manufacturers models? Or, do you feel it's fair, a good business strategy, for LG to sell panels to competitive manufacturers at what must be a lower price point and maintain relatively high high street cost to consumers - particularly in the UK, Brexit aside?

 

[Goldorak]

Answer is simple for me...whatever is charged in the U.S. Should roughly be the norm for uk
How can we justify the price difference between a b6 and a b7...double ?

55 should retail now at circa £2k plus or minus 300
65 should retail at £3k plus or minus 500

My final point is that if I can buy right now a 55b7 in Belgium and save £700...thats normal price..where is the fairness ?

Using Brexit and exchange rate as an excuse will not cut it. Let's see the real measure and it will be sales...
I can tell you that from the forum activity, very few buying this year

 

[toodeep]

LG (Electronics) is an OEM and not a panel manufacturer and supplier (except to consumers). The panel manufacturer supplying the companies mentioned including LG is LGD.

 

[encaser]

Sister companies and so I very much doubt they get charged more than opposing manufacturers and in any case LG promised the cuts regardless like other European countries have seen.

 

[tigertimtim]

we have always had price discrepancy with the Usa but it's more than a tad annoying that in some euopean countries theres being big discounts in price already but yet in the Uk nothing, in fact Lg Oleds last year were already doing better price wise than this years models.

 

[JMB 1962]

Based upon the drop in the value of Sterling since last summer, I personally think the uk initial pricing for the 2017 LG models is

quite reasonable. At least we will get the price reductions (based upon previous years) as 2017 progresses. I spend a lot of time in Spain. The December price of the 55E6 there was the same in the shops as the initial launch amount. The January sales resulted in a whopping 10% reduction.

 

[simonlewis]

Based upon the drop in the value of Sterling since last summer, I personally think the uk initial pricing for the 2017 LG models is

Is their some text missing or did you hit "post reply" before you finished your sentence or did you have a power cut.

 

[ktmkid]

I think is just rip off Britain yet again. People don't complain. Like other countries. So the price is high as they can get away with!

 

[JMB 1962]

Is their some text missing or did you hit "post reply" before you finished your sentence or did you have a power cut.

The former. Another senior moment...

 

[davidcrofter]

Answer is simple for me...whatever is charged in the U.S. Should roughly be the norm for uk
How can we justify the price difference between a b6 and a b7...double ?

55 should retail now at circa £2k plus or minus 300
65 should retail at £3k plus or minus 500

My final point is that if I can buy right now a 55b7 in Belgium and save £700...thats normal price..where is the fairness ?

Using Brexit and exchange rate as an excuse will not cut it. Let's see the real measure and it will be sales...
I can tell you that from the forum activity, very few buying this year

Yes I agree - but very few are also buying ANY TV this year based on forum activity, I remember this place used to be buzzing with anticipation and excited new owners, this year it is like tumbleweed.

It seems to be a year for sitting tight and watching and waiting. Personally I wouldn't be making an expensive purchase when I feel HFR and HDMI 2.1 are just around the corner, plus we should get brand new OLED panels (this years are simply tweaked 2016 panels). If LG actually came out and told folks that the 2017 models have the necessary hardware to be upgraded then they would maybe be selling a whole lot more ...

As I said earlier unless the manufacturers have already planned for a quiet year then we are going to see a massive dumping of stock in round about 6 months time.

 

[Goldorak]

AND I SHALL BE THERE !!!!!
Counting on it big big time !!!!!!!

 

[Goldorak]

Yes I agree - but very few are also buying ANY TV this year based on forum activity, I remember this place used to be buzzing with anticipation and excited new owners, this year it is like tumbleweed.

It seems to be a year for sitting tight and watching and waiting. Personally I wouldn't be making an expensive purchase when I feel HFR and HDMI 2.1 are just around the corner, plus we should get brand new OLED panels (this years are simply tweaked 2016 panels). If LG actually came out and told folks that the 2017 models have the necessary hardware to be upgraded then they would maybe be selling a whole lot more ...

As I said earlier unless the manufacturers have already planned for a quiet year then we are going to see a massive dumping of stock in round about 6 months time.

My horrible waiting pattern teached me something. Even if we get EVERYTHING we want next year, content is behind by 3-5 years like sound always follows the light several seconds in a thunder storm (light travel much faster than sound so start counting when you see the light and stop when you hear the thunder. The time lapse tell you how far from you is the storm!!!)

My point is this year (and to be fair 2016) is the sweet spot and then to jump again in 3-5 years when everything catch up again

Ask Steve, he knows !!!! Sweet spot indeed...

 

[rick19011]

If it was a true RGB panel the price would be fair, however they are using WRGB so it is sacrificing colour for brightness

 

[encaser]

Yes I agree - but very few are also buying ANY TV this year based on forum activity, I remember this place used to be buzzing with anticipation and excited new owners, this year it is like tumbleweed.

It seems to be a year for sitting tight and watching and waiting. Personally I wouldn't be making an expensive purchase when I feel HFR and HDMI 2.1 are just around the corner, plus we should get brand new OLED panels (this years are simply tweaked 2016 panels). If LG actually came out and told folks that the 2017 models have the necessary hardware to be upgraded then they would maybe be selling a whole lot more ...

As I said earlier unless the manufacturers have already planned for a quiet year then we are going to see a massive dumping of stock in round about 6 months time.

The notion of a 'new' 2017 panel really does seem like a con.
OLED is well and truly here, it makes me wonder how much innovation is left for a true Tock year, aside from HLG, HFR etc. which can supposedly be applied to sets with little additional manu'/software/design additions.

 

[Roohster]

Double the price of last year's models... and nowhere near twice as good by all accounts.
I thought this might be the year when I buy an Oled but now it looks like I'll need to hold off a while longer.

 

[raymondo77]

Double the price of last year's models...

So pretty much the same as last year then. The new models aren't priced higher than their equivalents were at launch last year (apart from the £1,000 hike for the 65G7 for some unknown reason), but prices do seem to be dropping a little faster, perhaps due to increased competition from the other manufacturers.

 

[Scotteh]

I'm not sure what LG's strategy is, if the mark up is that high and they keep the sets out of range of most people, it will never take off in the mainstream. They will have a long and short-mid term strategy, but if the likes of Samsung stay a lot cheaper and LG keep on pushing panels at these prices, I can't see how OLED will take off like it needs to.

Larger sales over a high mark up is surely preferred to ensure they stay ahead of their competition. We don't know the details of their business in terms of what they are charging others to provide the panels, what their capex and opex costs are etc... and we don't really care. What we do care about is being able to buy these panels at a reasonable price and hoping they break into the mainstream to ensure the technology doesn't disappear into history.

Paying a much higher price in the UK compared to the USA or other areas of Europe certainly won't help in market take up...

 

[Ian_S]

Double the price of last year's models... and nowhere near twice as good by all accounts.

They're not really double the price! They are the same as last years launch prices.

I think the big issue this year is that they're not as big a step forward as last years were to the EF's. And with run-out prices still fresh in the mind for the 6 series, with the B6/C6 series still available they look like poor value. This won't change until the B6/C6 go ...

Also I think a lot of people are also waiting for the Panasonic to arrive and see what it delivers. If you're looking at a B/C/E7 then the Panasonic is in the right ballpark price wise, but no-one has seen one yet. The Sony is in good demand so is still at SRP, albeit with 0% available.

So, once the B6/C6 run dry, and the Panasonic 952 arrives and gets reviewed, I think things wil start to move.

Last year we knew all we would get was LG pretty much, so no point waiting. Also this year there is less difference between LG models, so again it's not so easy to choose. Even if you're looking at a B7, the Panasonic is worth considering.

 

[davidcrofter]

I'm not sure what LG's strategy is, if the mark up is that high and they keep the sets out of range of most people, it will never take off in the mainstream. They will have a long and short-mid term strategy, but if the likes of Samsung stay a lot cheaper and LG keep on pushing panels at these prices, I can't see how OLED will take off like it needs to.

Larger sales over a high mark up is surely preferred to ensure they stay ahead of their competition. We don't know the details of their business in terms of what they are charging others to provide the panels, what their capex and opex costs are etc... and we don't really care. What we do care about is being able to buy these panels at a reasonable price and hoping they break into the mainstream to ensure the technology doesn't disappear into history.

Paying a much higher price in the UK compared to the USA or other areas of Europe certainly won't help in market take up...

You need to take a look at the latest Samsung prices - their QLED prices are the biggest con known to man as is their shady naming of the product ... you could almost be forgiven for thinking it is some sort of new tech.

LG simply don't have the facilities to take OLED mainstream right now so that will be part of the reason that they are aiming at the top-end of the market only. Seemingly that strategy is bearing fruit ...

As others have said generally the advancements in technology this year (across the board LCD as well) don't add up to paying the extreme early adopter prices and that is why we will need to see a massive shift in prices before they start shifting stock.

 

[BOFH_UK]

From a business perspective it all depends on what LG's panel output is like. If they end the year with a ton of either unsold sets or unused capacity then they overpriced them for the market. Otherwise they got it right.

From a customer perspective OLED in general is overpriced right now but that's a comment that could be applied to pretty much all of the high end TV market! Prices seem to have gone up drastically across the board even compared to launch prices on last years' models. Granted exchange rates are considerably worse but not enough to account for this big a gap.

The big problem with OLED right now is it's a halo product that's kinda... floating in space. They're drawing people in with the picture quality and overall design but for those that can't afford those attention grabbing models there's no lesser option in the stack with less features at a lower price. Hell it's even worse than that for Sony, Panasonic and the like who have a single OLED model at the top of the stack. At least LG have options within that category, if you get suckered in on the others and then get sticker shock there's not even an option to try and convince yourself would be a worthwhile compromise.

A quick look on JL has the cheapest 55" 2017 OLED at £3k which is a ludicrous amount for most people. A 55" Samsung QLED (just using QLED as the easiest way to distinguish their top end sets) starts at £2,300 and there's a 49" version at £2k as well. OLED needs to start getting those step down models in place if it's to make a mass market impact. Ideally it needs to go far lower of course but this is the first step.

 

[encaser]

It appears unclear what the real answer is supply/cost wise. In that LGD who make the panels are supplying 6 other manufacturers (alongside LGE) with them and are opening another plant soon/now to produce yet higher yields. And this throws doubt on not being able to keep up with demand there. In which case, is it LGE, who make the final LG OLED products, that can't keep up with, or attain mainstream cost effective levels of production or are sticking to the unrealistic high/ultra end product pricing? The latter reminds of the Pioneer plasma and how well did that end for them. Perhaps LGE simply haven't grown quickly enough and that's why we are not seeing something resembling the Panasonic model, for example, of similar performing sets all the way up the pricing/performance scale. Panasonic didn't end too well either but LG have the significant advantage of a winning technology that most all the big boys want in on - as opposed to plasma which got black balled.
As it stands, one thing is clear, the majority of potential customers simply cannot afford OLED prices and, if at all, are now awaiting end of line prices at best.

 

[Ian_S]

Plasma didn't really get black balled, it was just a) inefficient compared to LCD and b) a lot more expensive than LCD once they were able to make LCD panels in larger sizes.

Pioneer got into trouble because people didn't want to pay what it cost to produce a TV like the Kuro. Panasonic ultimately hit the same problem. In general people want cheap.

The last couple of years has seen a trend where people were willing to pay big money for big screens, so LG have been able to sell at high prices.

As I said before, I think this year seems slow because there are still cheap 2016 TV's available and people are waiting for all the main brand OLED TV's to be available before deciding where to put their money.

I bought an E6 only because the price dipped much lower than I expected, and also I think 2018 will be a better year for OLED once we get onto 2nd gen TV's from Sony/Panasonic. It might also get LG to up their game a bit too. Had it not dipped that low, I'd still be waiting to see the Panasonic and also for prices to drop. They are a little high right now.

Once the cheaper Panasonic is out then I think people will get off the fence, and also I think the prices will soften... we'll see I guess.

 

[babator]

In Finland, according to a price history site, October 8th, 2016 was the first time that the LG 55B6 dipped below 2000€ for a few days. Until then its price was 2900€ or above.

So let's revisit this in October.

 

[encaser]

In Finland, according to a price history site, October 8th, 2016 was the first time that the LG 55B6 dipped below 2000€ for a few days. Until then its price was 2900€ or above.

So let's revisit this in October.

Why not.
I created this thread for a bit of fun on views and to see what happens with OLED/prices.

 

[Will Scarlet]

The only issue I have with this thread is its LG centric nature. Of any of the current OLED TV manufacturers LG deserve the most slack when it comes to pricing. If it wasn't for the vast amount of money they sank into R&D we wouldn't even have OLED.