What do you make of Sonys, BDAs, response?

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Buying & Building' started by dr no, Sep 8, 2007.

  1. dr no

    dr no
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    I'm just wondering what to make of BDAs recent announcements.

    Is it all a response to counteract Paramounts defection? (OR was Paramounts defection a pre-emptive attack for the planned announcements?)

    Is it near enough??

    It has been a rollercoaster ride over the last few weeks:eek:

    But how have the BDA responded?

    I see:

    1 .Mobilisation of Fox/MGM / and up production of Disney

    This is a great move for HD movie fans all round. Fox is committing full blooded. Of course it benefits BD tremendously esp. with some big movies round the corner i.e DH4 and FF2. I think Disney isn't going all out though. I wonder why this is. Is it because they are waiting for full player accessibility of disc interactivity (or is there more to the rumours I won't mention.)

    2. Announcement of an AMAZING number of standalone players across the board of CE companies.

    Sony, Denon, Marantz, Philips, Pioneer, Sharp, Loewe, JVC, Samsung, LG, Daewoo WOW:eek:

    All these machins give choice and they all look good as well (something Toshibas lack)
    BUT hardly any confirmed for 1.1 profile. The mention of 1.1 profile is almost deafening by its abscence. Why is the BDA playing it this way??
    Is another 1.1 delay imminent? or can these players be FW upgraded. If a small delay is forced on them then why release them at all??? profile 1.1 doesn't look imminent though?

    3. Chinese players confirmation

    Finally some idea of where the Cheap BD players are coming from. But HD DVD also finally plans to give choice beyond toshiba machines with the Venturer Chinese Cheapo players. Difference is HD DVD camp have day/ date/ price for their release whereas BDA have none.

    Anybody else can fill in anything major I've left out.

    So is this enough???

    If the Paramount move hadn't taken place you would have thought this is enough to stop HD DVD in it's track. But I think with the move it isn't enough. If all the new players were profile 1.1 then it would have been even more so significant. Maybe enough to marginalise, to an extent, the defection. As it stands this gives HD DVD more impetus to play on BDs weakness.

    Thankfully Warner resisted (pressure ??) signing any exclusivity deals. This would've been a hammer blow to BD. Then I think one could see BD actually failing with HD DVD becoming a single winner. Whereas as it stands it is looking more like like dual format with BD the stronger half. (i.e with potential to pull away if certain cards are played right.)

    I think HD DVD best card was the early full spec release. That was a genius stroke. BD has been playing catch up ever since with seemingly makeshift counter actions. It gave HD DVD group disproprotional credibility IMO. If BD was launched same time full spec with all the studio and CE support the picture would've been very different now.

    So different.:rolleyes:

    This raises the following question?

    Why didn't the BDA just release similar tech'd, to HD DVD, BD players at similar subsidized prices??(ofcourse we could tolerate slight higher prices for BD more expensive laser etc..)
    If HD DVD could get away without SoC then why couldn't BD?? They could've implemented SoC later just like HD DVD will?

    Also having opted for BDJ over HDi why didn't make a decent library of codes available for Studios to least at make simple menus more polished??

    I understand BDJ has much more top end potential then HDi hence one of the reasons they chose it but so far it ain't looking so.

    Why haven't they taken Warner aside and given them full access to everything BDA/Sun has? When Warner starts producing HD DVD equivalent BDs (and maybe even a little more?) it would be a good message to send.

    Also why haven't they pushed their storage advantage? It would seem space IS an issue. Later on with multiple audio options ( lossless PCM with TrueHD, DTS HD etc.) multiple extras options, HD extras, multiple interactivity options etc. etc. , and all this on top of optimum PQ.

    Space should become more of an issue later on. But it seems BD extra space hasn't been exploited at all.
    OR is this a disc yield issue and BDA don't want to bring attention to it??

    I think that the BDA group haven't helped themselves. With all the right cards they played them in the wrong order. They appear are being outwitted by a better player with lesser cards. And those lesser cards are getting better by the minute!

    So thats what I think, what do you make of recent events?
     
  2. brian s

    brian s
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    The outcome of this war is far from certain now. More machines in the shops will look better for BD. Like you I agree their greater storage capacity is the greatest advanage they have over HD DVD but why are so many discs single layered? Also HD DVD have promised triple layered 51gb discs. Any sign of triple layered BDs.?

    Cheers
    Bri
     
  3. dr no

    dr no
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    I think discs costs, related to production lines available and disc yields, encourage single layer discs instead of double layers.

    And I dont think 51gb HD DVD discs are going to become a reality anytime soon. Compatibility, with existing players, seems to be the issue.
     
  4. brian s

    brian s
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    Have to say I've got a bit of a bee in my bonnet over single layered discs. I think they should all be dual layered to take full advantage of BD.

    The last I read about the HD DVD 51 GB discs was a comment by Toshiba that they would play on existing machines. I'll believe it when I see it.

    All the best
    Bri
     
  5. dr no

    dr no
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    HD DVD TL 51 discs haven't been agreed by the HD DVD group yet - although it is due to go thru' anytime now.

    Once this is agreed the compatibility testing will start.

    (BTW I'm gleaning info from the insiders thread over the pond)
     
  6. Rasczak

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    To answer some of your questions without comment:

    Yes indeed - but if you don't have a SoC solution you need some sort of CPU. I should imagine an IBM solution was too expensive and Intel are a heavy weight backer of HD DVD. So that only leaves AMD - clearly they were either not approached or were too expensive.

    This would help - however the studios pumping out titles now are more than capable of paying coders to make fancy Java menus. The problem is getting that Java to run on the first gen SoCs without grinding them to a halt. So it's linked with your point above effectively.

    I think that part of your post is nigh on impossible to answer/respond to without it ultimately becoming a 'format war' thread. Therefore I will keep my reply short and sweet...

    As I have been saying since last Summer I think the inevitable outcome of this war is dual format. I don't think that has ever been in doubt and I don't think any recent announcements have changed that - it's just made it more obvious. The only question for the CE producers now is when to incorporate 'the other' format into their product lines. For most currently heading down the BD path it will be when Profile 2.0 arrives - networking and persistent storage will have to be added at this stage so the HD DVD side could likewise be added without too much extra hastle. Naturally Sony, Panasonic and Toshiba will be the last to buckle - but as with DVDR they will.
     
  7. Pecker

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    I don't think either side have done anything to decicively change anything in a way that would win it.

    The only big change has been the Paramount/Dreamworks decision, which we probably all agree mean that HD DVD are not going to be disappearing.

    Before that point we were one press release from Universal away from theend to the war. That announcement means Paramount aren't giving up on HD DVD anytime soon, and Universal's "This is what we've been saying for ages" comment in response to the move means they're solid, too.

    So it's a drawn out war ahead of us, unless Paramount have triggered a 'domino effect', though I highly doubt that.

    But I'm very pleased that Fox are getting stuck in and will be releasing lots of titles soon. I'm also happy with the large number of new BD players announced.

    It will mean one of two things: competition driving prices down quickly (a very good thing), or all these players competing at a higher (c.£350?) price bracket. I think that'll ultimately mean an end to the format war (if BD player prices don't drop with this much competition, I can see studios saying they've had enough).

    Steve W
     
  8. dr no

    dr no
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    Raszack,

    I think we can all gentlemanly debate without another format war thread:)


    Steve,

    I agree neither side is going to go away now. (Unless of course there are other lightning bolts out of the blue!)

    From a neutrals point of view maybe a domino effect would have been better to get an end result sooner.

    As for competition yes it can only be healthy for all of us. But can BD be competitive quickly enough to stay in the race?
     
  9. dr no

    dr no
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    Thanks Scrapbook for re-opening this thread.

    It seems the TL51 is approved by the HD DVD forum.
    And now onto testign compatibility testing.

    But as mentioned by others ' why approve it if you don't already have a good idea that it will work?'

    I have a feeling it'll likely be compatible.
    This will give BD a headache. How will HD DVD argure for 51gb after arguing against need beyond 30gb?
     
  10. Sonic67

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    Is a triple layer really necessary? I'm quite happy for extras to be on a second disk and out of the way. Is it really needed? I think most releases will still stay as dual layer as that as been good enough up till now.
     
  11. dr no

    dr no
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    I think they're trying to future proof the spec. I'm sure it will be helpful/necessary in the future for inclusion of all audio options in their many guises.

    Also why have SD extras???? Can you imagine when HDM is fully established having to watch your extras in SD? No way.

    Besides HD DVD probably wants to get even on the storage capacity front.

    BTW I never watch extras! I don't think hardly anyboby else does either:rotfl:

    I think you're right and a lot of companies will stick to double layer initially. Interesting what the disc yields are likely to be.
     

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