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What do i need to get Pro Logic II from SKy?

Discussion in 'Sky Digital TV Forum' started by sarll, Jan 2, 2003.

  1. sarll

    sarll
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    Hi

    Pretty straight forward question i think...

    I've got a Marantz 4200 amp and am getting Sky Digital installed on Friday - I'd like to buy the necessary cables in advance so I can listen to Pro Logic II immediately but i'm not sure what to get.

    Obviously I don't yet know what make/model of digibox i will be getting.

    Will a standard coax cable (as amp > dvd) do the job?

    Cheers
     
  2. Greg Hook

    Greg Hook
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    Hi

    It makes no difference what digibox you get as the Pro-logic II is not something transmitted, it is produced by the amp.

    All I have on my setup is just the basic L/R phono cables. You don't need anything special.

    Greg
     
  3. sarll

    sarll
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    cheers m8

    Do you have to tell the digibox to output in a differnet format than default?
     
  4. KevB_UK

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    Nope, just connect the phonos up and that's it.
     
  5. NicolasB

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    If you get a Sky+ box and an optical interconnect then you can get a proper Dolby Digital soundtrack for a few films on Sky Premier Widescreen - but that's a lot of money to spend unless you want Sky+ anyway.
     
  6. nunew33

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    sarll
    I dont know if Im teaching you to suck eggs, but pro logic and prologic II are a form of surround sound that is embedded/matrixed into the stereo channels of whatever the source material is so you can get it from DVD, Stereo VCR, TV, sky digiboxes, basically any stereo device, even a music tape casette if it was encoded using surround. All digiboxes will have stereo phono jacks and output accordingly by default, no changes. Only the sony differs in this respect offering stereo only optical out.


    So as said elsewhere for any source that you want to use prologic on, all that is needed are stereo phono cables (of course if coax/optical connects are available use them).
     
  7. Sonyboy

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    I was interested to read the reply from NUNEW33. I have a Sony digibox VTX S760U. My AV amp is a Sony DB 925 with optical digital inputs. I have connected my Digital output from my Digibox to the Amp using an optical cable. Even if the programme is Dolby surround I still only get stereo. Is this a limitation of the digibox???
    If I connect using the phono outputs of the digibox will I be able to listen in Surround sound?
    I imagined the the digital connection would be better??
    Thats progress I guess..............
     
  8. lynx

    lynx
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    My understanding is only the earlier built Sony's have the optical output activated so you may find a firmware change has disabled it.
     
  9. nunew33

    nunew33
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    Like I said dolby surround is a surround sound format that is embedded in stereo channels (in easy terms the centre is extracted from sound that is perfectly in phase and the rears are perfectly out of phase). So although the signal is stereo from the sony digibox and its being sent via optical it still contains the surround information. Dolby surround/pro logic/pro logic 2 all work from a stereo source. An amp wont detect dolby surround sound in a stereo source, it will detect that its stereo only. You have to tell the amp when you want to hear dpl/dpl2 etc.

    A digital connection doesnt mean dolby digital!!!! Its simply a digital connection between source and decoder. In the case of the digibox its stereo only much to the annoyance of people who own them!!!!!

    Sonyboy the simpsons or a recent action movie on sky should have surround sound transmitted. Its a matter of simply switching on DPL or DPL2 when watching sky and it should work whether you use phonos or optical.


    I get the feeling Im not making this clear.
     
  10. Sonyboy

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    OK simple thing first, nunew33. I know about Dolby Digital. I can only get that if I get a Sky+ box. Way too expensive!!!!

    Regarding the Amp settings I thought I had set everything up to play dpl. I have tried using the phono leads and the surround sound seems OK. I will look at the book and see if there is anything I need to do to the digital input to hear dpl.

    When I play a DVD through a digital connection the display on the amp tells me what is being decoded. Dolby Digital, DTS, Dolby Pro Logic etc.

    When I use the satellite the only display I get is PCM Stereo. Whether the programme is DS or not.

    Thanks for your help. I'll get back to tell you if I ever crack it.

    Thanks also to Lynx for your comment. As you can see the connection works but does not appear to give surround sound.
     
  11. nunew33

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    Sonyboy, If you get stereo and you are watching a dolby surround encoded film/program then dpl WILL (not shall - this is an absolute) give you surround sound. There is nothing to crack!!!!

    DPL works from stereo sources. Look at dolbys website for an explanation.

    An amp wont detect a Dolby surround source it will detect it as stereo. For examle on my amp I just get stereo coming on and thats it. I then switch the amp to use dpl2.


    If you get stereo either by phono or optical then from sky digibox then you simply set the amp to use DPL or DPL2 on it. Its as simple as that!!!

    Surely you are using DPL for VCR and TV input? Its exactly the same!!
     
  12. Sonyboy

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    Calm Down nunew33. I do understand about DPL and I HAVE got my amp set up to output surround effect.

    I can definitely tell you that if I listen to the same programme with optical and then switch to anologue the surround effect is better in anologue!!! It sounds "flat" with digital...like the difference between mono (if you can remember mono) and stereo...... Everyone says so not just me.
    Wierd isn't it????

    By the way I dont have a VCR connected, sorry to disappoint........ Yes, my TV is connected by phonos and it sounds good.

    I connected the DVD to the same optical input as the digibox. I used a DVD which has Stereo, DPL and DDigital. The amp faithfully reproduced the correct sound, adjusted the speaker settings accordingly and displayed the correct message. The amp is designed to do this with digital connections only.

    I expected the optical connection on the digibox to do the same but it definitely does not.

    I'm now listening to the digibox through the phonos and I'm happy.

    However I would like to understand the difference between the DVD optical and the digibox optical. Have you any ideas.
    :confused:
     
  13. nunew33

    nunew33
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    Optical is just a means of sending digital data. How that data is encoded and decoded is the difference between the DVD and digibox.

    Ive down mixed a DVD with DD5.1 to PCM stereo and passed it to the amp to assess the difference between DPL2 on VHS and DPL2 on DVD.

    The resultant surround sound from the DVD (definately did this right as the amp stated it was recieving stereo from digital source) was better than the VHS. The DVD player is sony. So I cant see why you should get better sound from the analogue phono leads.

    By using the optical you are effectively bypassing the digibox decoder in the digibox and using your amp for the digital->analogue. The digibox and amp should be using the same digital data to start and both being sony you would expect a similar DAC in the digibox and amp.
    Its bizarre that it should sound flatter!
     
  14. Sonyboy

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    Hmmmmmm. I need to think about that one. I'll do some more experiments........Back soon!!!!!!
     
  15. Fernsehman

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    Careful attention to detail might help. Like the missing apostrophe above and the spelling of "chocolates" in your signature line. ;)
     
  16. nunew33

    nunew33
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    Damn, I knew there was something confusing the issue. B


    ut there is no missing apostrophe. Apostrophes are for contracting words such as "I will" to "I'll" or posession such as "Will's chocolates".

    In this case its a simple case of me stating that there is more than one chocolate on the box and therefore its plural of chocolate which doesnt require an apostrophe.

    But I'm no linguist and prepared for the abusive flames from grammarians (but I still think I'm right).:p
     
  17. MAW

    MAW
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    It's not the apostrophe or lack of it in your signature, but the fact that your spelling of the word is wrong. I must admit I hadn't noticed until it was pointed out. Your mind just fills in the blanks if you know what it's supposed to say.

    Back on topic, lack of pro logic with digital in is bizarre. Pace cable boxes output dual mono from the phonos, making it necessary to use scart to get prologic from them, but there's no way they could make an optical out send a mono signal if it's stereo when converted to analogue. Something else is wrong, like programmed settings on the amplifier for the input being used. My Yamaha can be programmed for each input, ie effects off for CD, DD5:1 for DVD, pro-logic for VCR. There is a mono option, just I've never used it. Do Sonys do this? Does it tell you whether it's in pro logic mode when it sounds flat?
     
  18. nunew33

    nunew33
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    Have you never heard of cholcolates?
     
  19. MAW

    MAW
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    Partial to the odd one I suppose, me and my gril have them whilst watching the aforementioned films.
     
  20. mrouse

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    I have read this thread with interest. I am new to this so please excuse my waffle. I have recently purchased a Pioneer HC-51s. I have also got a Panasonic TU-dsb31 digibox. I have linked the audio outputs from my digibox into the audio inputs on the amp. I have then set amp to output pro logic II, the problem I am having is that when dialog being transmitted it comes out of the centre speaker fine but there some or the dalog is coming through the rear speakers with a muffled crackly sound.

    I am joining the digibox to amp with phono cables supplied with HC-51s. What I would like to know is where the problem is most likely to be occuring. Is it the leads, the amp, digibox etc

    Thanks
     
  21. nunew33

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    Thats to be exoected. Prologic uses sound embedded in the Left and right channels. There is bound to be some residual sound that remains in the Left and right channels that isnt matrixed out.

    The dolby website has some good info on how it all works at all levels (laymen to technical).
     
  22. Sonyboy

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    Hey... I didn't think I would get English lessons. What a great forum.

    What about the digital input sound problem. In answer to the questions posed by MAW.

    Something else is wrong, like programmed settings on the amplifier for the input being used.
    If you see my earlier posting I have used the same input for the DVD with the same settings and everything is OK.
    Does it tell you whether it's in pro logic mode when it sounds flat?
    This is the wierd bit. The message says "PCM Stereo" regardless of the programme being watched. When I connected the DVD the message was Pro Logic. Dolby Digital etc... (see previous post)
    The Sony when set to "Auto format" will display the message relating to the source material and select the correct speaker configuration automatically. However this only appears to happen with the DVD machine and not the digibox. Even if both are connected digitally.

    Anyway, after more experimentation I MAY have found the answer.
    The output volume of the digital input is lower than the anologue.
    If I turn up the volume so that the output sound is the same or louder than the anologue then the surround effect comes to life.
    I had not noticed this before as I was looking for the amp giving me the correct message.
    So it appears that the sound output is OK.

    Thanks for all your help nunew33. I would not have persevered without it.
     
  23. nunew33

    nunew33
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    Glad you got it sorted
     

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