What do I need for Rock & Metal ?

Sundayjumper

Active Member
And Industrial too. Hey, don't judge me, I am what I am :)

I've been blathering through various kit over the years but never being entirely happy with it. Is there any forum concensus on what's good for my kind of music ? I can forego hearing the detail of the colour of the singer's nostril hair (tm Russ Andrews probably); I need something with energy and bite. If I think about live performances it's a visceral experience. It's not a delicate acoustic soundscape yada yada.

So right now I've got...

Marantz SR7012 - essentially happy with this, I think, but I'm not sure it likes 4Ω speakers.
Roksan Kandy CD player - also happy with this I think.
M&K LCR950 fronts - they're 4Ω (see above), no issues with TV & movies but for music they seem harsh & hollow to me. Don't like.
(ancient Linn AV5120 centre but that's not used for music)
M&K V8 sub - like this a lot. Runs very deep & clear compared to...
Monitor Audio R360 sub - I was actually very happy with this until I got the M&K which kicks the hell out of it.
Q Acoustics 3050 - I like them but they need more oomph.
Q Acoustics 3020 - they're in my office and not surprisingly are just like the 3050 but with less bass. Perfectly happy with that in the context though.

So I wouldn't say I'm a "bass head" as such but my music does have a lot of information around (real) drums and bass guitar so that low end is going to be important.

In the early nouighties my brother had some Monitor Audio S6 and I liked that sound back then. Do I just need some of those ?? Or is that rose-tinted and the modern world is bettererer ?
 

OscarZ

Active Member
Mission 700s are superb for rock - the original model anyway. Second pair I've had - got lucky on eBay this time - £70 collected.

Wedding Present, Groundhogs, Purple all sound great - bass and drums are clear. But they do need tying down. I have a shoe last on top of each speaker.

Great for rock/indie/reggae with a big, punchy and undistorted sound at high volumes no problem if you ground them well. £150 for a good working pair would be a bargain IMO.

Lemon Kittens/Danielle Dax on vinyl is the only 'industrial' music I own but haven't yet tried on the 700s.
 

Ugg10

Distinguished Member
I'm also a metalhead and have on many occasions stated that metal is not about depth of bass (like dub step etc.) but about fast base and the ability to determine separation of Bass Guitar and Kick Drums which often play the same pattern (I use In the Forest by Gojira as a test track!).

In order to re-create that live feel then the three main characteristic to look for IMO are - Cone area and as much as your room/aesthetics can stand, cone mass and as light as possible (which typically means giving up the low frequencies) and an amp with a good power supply and damping factor to control those big, light cones. A sealed, aperiodic or possibly a passive radiator box may be more suited to fast bass as well than a ported one.

I suspect that although the Marantz is an upper level AVR and has good quoted power (but only with 2 channels driven) you are finding out it is running out of puff with demanding dynamic music plus AVR preamp section are notorious for sucking the life out of music as they tend to do an ADC conversion to analogue inputs before doing a DAC after the DSP has done its job. This is why a number of members on here have a stereo integrated amp with HT bypass (other manufacturers call is processor mode or other proprietary names, worth searching the manuals) plugged into the front L/R outputs of the AVR and connect all stereo sources to that.

Not sure if this helps but may give you something to research.
 

Sundayjumper

Active Member
OscarZ - Agreed about the Missions, I had some 733s and they were great until the cones inevitably fell apart !

Ugg10 - That's some really good info, thank you. I think I'd inadvertantly discovered the same thing about sealed enclosures, the old Monitor R360 sub is ported and the M&K is sealed, and I noticed a big difference in the "tightness" of the sound. Out of curiosity I Googled for the lowest frequency on a bass guitar and it says:

The low E-string on a bass guitar is usually tuned to 41.2 Hz, while the lowest note on a standard piano is A at 27.5 Hz.

So I clearly need something that will happily drop below 40Hz. Interestingly my 3050s are quoted as only going down to 44Hz.

And I'd never heard of amps with a HT bypass ! that might well be exactly the solution I need. Cheers :)
 

gibbsy

Moderator
And I'd never heard of amps with a HT bypass ! that might well be exactly the solution I need. Cheers :)
Always the best way to go if space is tight and you cannot fit in another separate music set up consisting of better speakers and integrated stereo amp. AV amps, unless you go for some of the top models such as Arcam, are not that good at presenting stereo music.

You would also have to consider what type of sub you run as well. If wanting a HT by-pass amp then a sub that can run both high and low level connections would be preferred with the low level connection (LFE) to the AV amp and the high level connection to the stereo amp. REL and BK both offer this level of connection.

I'm not into heavy metal or deep bass so although I run a HT by-pass amp I don't bother with a high level connection. Running a HT by-pass amp alongside my Denon AV amp has certainly much improved how I enjoy my music. It's a simple connection between the two amps and works very well indeed. Below is a current list of amps that have HT by-pass.

 

Ugg10

Distinguished Member
Be careful comparing speaker specs for low frequencies. Different manufacturers quote different cut off points (if at all), typically these are f3, f6 or f10 or 3dB, 6dB or 10dB below the nominal average. The f10 point is where subjectively the frequency will sound half as loud. Also note that the sound drops off slower in a sealed box (12dB/octave) to a ported box (24dB/octave) typically so for the same f3 point, say, the sealed will actually have more bass content than the ported. However it is much more difficult to make a sealed box play low unless you increase driver area. Finding sealed box speakers is also quite difficult, ATC being an exception. A halfway house may be either a transmission line (PMC) or a passive radiator that drop off around 18dB/octave and can play naturally fairly low.
 

Hear Here

Active Member
And Industrial too. Hey, don't judge me, I am what I am :)

I've been blathering through various kit over the years but never being entirely happy with it. Is there any forum concensus on what's good for my kind of music ? I can forego hearing the detail of the colour of the singer's nostril hair (tm Russ Andrews probably); I need something with energy and bite. If I think about live performances it's a visceral experience. It's not a delicate acoustic soundscape yada yada.

So right now I've got...

Marantz SR7012 - essentially happy with this, I think, but I'm not sure it likes 4Ω speakers.
Roksan Kandy CD player - also happy with this I think.
M&K LCR950 fronts - they're 4Ω (see above), no issues with TV & movies but for music they seem harsh & hollow to me. Don't like.
(ancient Linn AV5120 centre but that's not used for music)
M&K V8 sub - like this a lot. Runs very deep & clear compared to...
Monitor Audio R360 sub - I was actually very happy with this until I got the M&K which kicks the hell out of it.
Q Acoustics 3050 - I like them but they need more oomph.
Q Acoustics 3020 - they're in my office and not surprisingly are just like the 3050 but with less bass. Perfectly happy with that in the context though.

So I wouldn't say I'm a "bass head" as such but my music does have a lot of information around (real) drums and bass guitar so that low end is going to be important.

In the early nouighties my brother had some Monitor Audio S6 and I liked that sound back then. Do I just need some of those ?? Or is that rose-tinted and the modern world is bettererer ?
What do I need for Rock & Metal ?

Earplugs?
 

Timmy C

Distinguished Member
Based on your comment about the Monitor Audio's I would certainly recommend looking further into them. I also fully support the suggestion of a 2 channel hifi amp with HT bypass if you want to combine the systems.

I mostly listen to rock, metal and punk along with all of it's sub categories and have been happily using MA speakers for almost 20 years now. Prior to discovering them I was a big fan of Mission speakers in the 90's and I've occasionally tried a few other brands since but always end up coming back to the MA's. Do some comparisons though as some find MA speakers to be a bit on the bright side.
 

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