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What can I expect from upscaled DVD

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by Malone, Jan 31, 2005.

  1. Malone

    Malone
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    Hi all,
    I am hoping someone has the answers to these questions, I have looked through the site but have not really found the answers so.........

    If you connect a DVD with onboard upscaler(Momitsu DVD880) via component to a projector(Sony VW11HT) capable of HDTV; 480/60p; 575/50p; 1080/50i; 720/60p; 720/50p; and has a native resolution of 1,366 x 768......

    Then firstly, can you purchase HD titles like Terminator 2 to play on your DVD and if so what resolution would be available with this system.
    Secondly would standard DVD films whether PAL or NTSC be obviously improved?

    Thanks

    Matt
     
  2. johndon

    johndon
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    AFAIK, the HD version of T2 can only be played via a media player on a PC rather than a DVD player and then only after messing around with proxy servers to fool the licensing into thinking you're in the US.

    As for the upscaling, it depends on two things I would guess:

    1. How good the scaler is
    2. How well encoded the original disk was

    With a badly encoded disk I would image that upscaling it will exagerate any problems.

    HTH

    John
     
  3. KraGorn

    KraGorn
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    The Terminator hidef you're referring to is not a DVD, it's a Windows Media file (WMV) which as John says will only play on an internet-connected PC that's located in America or can fool the license server to think it is.

    A number of hidef WMVs have recently been released in Germany I believe, again these don't play on DVD players .. new players are shortly to appear which can play hidef WMVs, whether they can obtain licenses I have no idea.

    The V880 (I have first generation one) will up-scale NTSC and PAL but since that Sony isn't native 1280x720 then the output will still be scaled again by the projector .. I've never done double-scaling but I suspect the results aren't going to be too good, certainly I doubt they'd be any better than feeding 576p and possibly 576i depending on the deinterlacer in the pj.
     
  4. Malone

    Malone
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    So from reading this and other threads, lets suppose you have a DVD film that is either Superbit(and well encoded) or just a well encoded normal DVD film, will this be a better picture than a standard DVD with no upscaler.

    Would there be any difference with PAL or NTSC discs?

    Matt
     
  5. LV426

    LV426
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    The scaler in the Sony VW's is pretty good. Evidently the "12" is even better than the "11" and "10". You may well find that driving the projector with 480p or 576p, and leaving the onboard scaler to upscale to 1366x768 gives you the best result. There's no harm whatsoever in trying it and settling for what you consider offers the best result.
     
  6. Malone

    Malone
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    Thanks all for the replies, but......... I still cant seem to read between the lines.

    If your saying the upscaler in the Sony will upscale it to its max resolution, does this mean that it is currently doing that with my standard SD210E connected by SVideo. Which in turn means an upscaler on a DVD is fruitless :( and I would have been better of spending my money on something other than a upscalable DVD player? WHeres the crying 'smilie' sob sob

    Matt
     
  7. Mark Antony

    Mark Antony
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    Every projector will upscale/downscale an image it receives to it's native rate, I'm pretty sure yours is 720p - but best to check with the instruction manual or sony's website.

    In terms of getting the best image, it comes down to how good is the scaler in the projector, compared to the one in the dvd player and what the native rate of projector is.

    For example I have a Denon 3910 and a Toshiba MT8 projector - which is native 720p, thus sending it a resolution higher than 720p, ie 1080i, is pointless because the projector will just scale that image back down to 720p - it's like enlarging a picture twice then reducing it once (576i/480i>720>1080i>720p), you might as well have just enlarged it once in the first place! It also means an extra two stages of processing are happening that will affect image quality for the worse.

    All current dvd's are either encoded at 576 lines of res for pal or 480 for ntsc, superbit or otherwise, which is why a lot of pal disc's look better on a huge screen as there's nearly 25% more lines of res.

    So because the denon has a great scaler - as good as the one in the projector - I send it an upscaled 720p image via DVI and it looks great. If that weren't the case, Id send it a 576/480 image and let the projector do the work - deinterlacing and scaling.

    Most cheaper players don't have as good scalers/deinterlacers as the projector and so sending them a 576i/480i image - either pal/ntsc will look better as the projector is doing all the hard work that the player isn't as good at doing.

    The only way to be sure is to borrow a couple of players your interested in from a local dealer and try them out in your system. Something like the momitsu may look good to ok, but as it's so cheap, build quality and sound quality maybe not as good as something else a little more expensive.

    M
     
  8. Malone

    Malone
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    So what your saying is " your current DVD is already being scaled by your PJ(with, I am told a good scaler) to match the full res of the PJ so a DVD with an upscaler will give you no better image anyway". So if that is the case why is everyone so excited about upscalers in DVD's (ie the Samsung or Momitsu)if their projector's have scalers anyway? I am afraid I am getting :confused:

    Matt
     
  9. Mark Antony

    Mark Antony
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    People get excited because they don't understand the technology. Upscaling dvd players work better only if it's doing a better job at scaling/deinterlacing than the projector. If you have a naff/old/mediocre projector that may be the case, hence why people with these type of projectors are excited!

    As an example I used to have an Arcam FMJ dvd27 - this was a £1600 dvd player and I still sent my MT8 projector an interlaced rather than progressive image (the arcam didn't do upscaling) because the projector did a better job of deinterlacing than the dvd player.

    Most people would be far better getting a decent set of video cables and a video calibration disc like avia/digital video essentials, than an upscaling player, but it depends on what Projector/HDTV they have. They are also advised to use this benchmark http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all to see which players actually have a decent picture quality to start with, as a lot don't do even the basics right!

    There's a lot of players out there and some are a lot better than similarly priced others, the table at the top of the shootout is a good guide.

    M
     
  10. LV426

    LV426
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    Yes, that's about it.

    In order to get any image - of any signal type - to display on any pixel-based display (i.e. DLP. LCD, Plasma, D-ila etc) the incoming signal has to be mapped (i.e. scaled) onto the pixel structure of the device.

    In the case in point, a television signal in which each frame consists of 576 (PAL) horizontal lines, each of which can change hue up to about 720 times along its length, and where these lines are delivered one after another, in the sequence 1,3,5,7,9.....575,2,4,6,8.....576 (the whole process taking 1/25 sec) has to be stored up and re-mapped to an array of 1366x768. Real-time. That's scaling and de-interlacing. It HAS to happen. All regular TV signals, whatever their source, including Superbit DVDs, are like this. Only true high-reolution sources differ. (NTSC has 480 lines, not 576, and 1/30 sec, not 1/25).

    So, the question is, can the scaler in my projector be improved upon by the one in my DVD player (or by my standalone one)? If the answer to this is No* then there's no point in using the off-board scaler.

    In effect, therefore, you already partly know the answer to your original question What can I expect from upscaled DVD because that's what you already have.

    * I'm not able from experience to say it is NO, just that, if it's YES, the extent may not be that great.
     
  11. Malone

    Malone
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    That for me is the crux of it, thanks for the replies.

    Regards

    Matt
     
  12. paulfoley

    paulfoley
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    The newer ones nearly all offer a DVI-D connection which keeps the picture in the digital domain. I definitely noticed a cleaner image when connecting my Denon to my Panny PJ via DVI-D.

    :thumbsup:
     
  13. Malone

    Malone
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    I only have component inputs on my PJ so the Momitsu, I thought, was the best option prior to my findings in this thread :( Still i needed a multi region player anyway :) which this one is, just didnt really need the upscaling, ho humm, you live and learn.

    Matt
     

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