What Brexit Deal would be acceptable to you?

xmb

Active Member
The only acceptable deal is parity with our current deal. Brexit was always based on lies and deceit and we have gone from a great easy deal with sunny uplands to we have to leave come what may, because people voted on it by a slim margin.

Few young people voted to leave and their votes should have had more sway than those who looked to the distant past (with rose tinted glasses) rather than the future.

Brexit is for anarchists and cult follower, as it will destabilise the UK, and possibly other countries, for many years to come. It is the biggest folly the UK has every embarked on and reminds me of the Monty Python sketch "What have the Romans ever done for us"!
 

Squiffy

Distinguished Member
The only acceptable deal is parity with our current deal. Brexit was always based on lies and deceit and we have gone from a great easy deal with sunny uplands to we have to leave come what may, because people voted on it by a slim margin.

Few young people voted to leave and their votes should have had more sway than those who looked to the distant past (with rose tinted glasses) rather than the future.

Brexit is for anarchists and cult follower, as it will destabilise the UK, and possibly other countries, for many years to come. It is the biggest folly the UK has every embarked on and reminds me of the Monty Python sketch "What have the Romans ever done for us"!
You missed brexit voters are all old, thick racists.

Oh and you didn't mention Russia, or that the referendum was advisory

2/10 must try harder.
 

scarty16

Well-known Member
The only acceptable deal is parity with our current deal. Brexit was always based on lies and deceit and we have gone from a great easy deal with sunny uplands to we have to leave come what may, because people voted on it by a slim margin.
I have some straws at home if you want to clutch at them....
 

Goooner

Distinguished Member
The only acceptable deal is parity with our current deal. Brexit was always based on lies and deceit and we have gone from a great easy deal with sunny uplands to we have to leave come what may, because people voted on it by a slim margin.
You know what? If you could guarantee we’d have this much Europe, everything would stay as it is now, no further integration or anything, I’d probably take it.

That’s never going to happen, the EU are heading in one direction and they’re not going to let anything get in their way.
 

xmb

Active Member
Y
That’s never going to happen, the EU are heading in one direction and they’re not going to let anything get in their way.
And if the UK crashes out without a deal we are also headed in one direction, and it is not up!
Even if we took the current withdrawal deal we would spend the next 10 to 20 years trying to negotiate deals with the EU and others but never recover to a position better off than we are now.

Few understand trade and regulation go hand in hand. The EU has provided good regulations to keep quality, safety and standards high but de-regulation to open up markets will only mean the poor get poorer and the rich richer. Those who want out of the EU must be very rich or completely deluded! But the debate is now so polarised there is no solution that will satisfy the extremists. The UK is broken and Brexit is not the fix!
 

Bl4ckGryph0n

Distinguished Member
And if the UK crashes out without a deal we are also headed in one direction, and it is not up!
Even if we took the current withdrawal deal we would spend the next 10 to 20 years trying to negotiate deals with the EU and others but never recover to a position better off than we are now.

Few understand trade and regulation go hand in hand. The EU has provided good regulations to keep quality, safety and standards high but de-regulation to open up markets will only mean the poor get poorer and the rich richer. Those who want out of the EU must be very rich or completely deluded! But the debate is now so polarised there is no solution that will satisfy the extremists. The UK is broken and Brexit is not the fix!
Why would the UK not keep up the standards?
 

IronGiant

Moderator
In or out any goods we export to the EU will still have to meet their standards, and carry their CE mark, so I don't see much changing.
 

Squiffy

Distinguished Member
Few understand trade and regulation go hand in hand. The EU has provided good regulations to keep quality, safety and standards high but de-regulation to open up markets will only mean the poor get poorer and the rich richer. Those who want out of the EU must be very rich or completely deluded! But the debate is now so polarised there is no solution that will satisfy the extremists. The UK is broken and Brexit is not the fix!
Those same standards have kept food prices higher.

How is that not making the poor poorer?

Chlorinated chicken, GM crops, etc are safe and would reduce costs.
 

Bl4ckGryph0n

Distinguished Member
In or out any goods we export to the EU will still have to meet their standards, and carry their CE mark, so I don't see much changing.
Exactly and in many areas the UK had those standards, and also those in relation to working conditions well before the EU.

I see no need nor urgency to change that or be concerned about that. No matter how often Jeremy Corbyn likes to say those nasty Toreeees will do that. Any future change for better, or worse, would be a normal UK democratic matter. Any trade with countries or trading blocks will have to comply with the standards as per such agreements.
 

Squiffy

Distinguished Member
Exactly and in many areas the UK had those standards, and also those in relation to working conditions well before the EU.
It has always been the case that you need to meet the standards of the markets you sell to.

If we sell something in the USA it needs to meet their standards. Similarly for China, Japan or anyone else.

There's nothing new in this.
 

Willem55

Standard Member
There use to be strength in numbers and now the UK will go it alone..
Or the scenario of the 51 state may come to be but only after the US bought Greenland.:)
 

xmb

Active Member
So, post Brexit a UK manufacturer would have to make products with different specifications and be certified to meet multiple countries regulations. This has a cost that can soon mean it is uneconomical to sell into that market. This is typical for high tech and medical products. Therefore, prices increase for both imports and exports, both resulting in economic harm to the UK.

Too many try to simplify the complex regulatory world we now live in and make incorrect assumptions about how easy trading actually is.

Those who want to leave with no-deal are either uninformed or stand to make money out of deregulation. Normal workers will be shafted without any doubt.
 

Goooner

Distinguished Member
Maybe I’m missing something but how is that different to now? If we want to sell things to Europe we make things to the European standard. What’s different if we leave?
 

Squiffy

Distinguished Member
So, post Brexit a UK manufacturer would have to make products with different specifications and be certified to meet multiple countries regulations. This has a cost that can soon mean it is uneconomical to sell into that market. This is typical for high tech and medical products. Therefore, prices increase for both imports and exports, both resulting in economic harm to the UK.
Right now, we have to make goods to multiple countries specifications. That's no different after brexit.

Of course many of the standards we follow are international (e.g. standards from the IEEE) so nothing to do with the EU anyway.
 

xmb

Active Member
However, regulatory alignment may required we have to change our own regulations to align with another countries regulations as part of a free trade deal. You can be sure, since the UK is small, the other countries (e.g. USA) will trump ours.

At the moment we don’t need or have large government departments who manage all these regulations, as they are handled centrally by the EU. Post Brexit we will need to provide our own departments to cover this function, which will cost a lot of money and chances are we don’t have enough people who even know about this.

I know, as I work in standards (both BSI and IEC) and the numbers involved have been diminishing over the last 10-years. Without people who know about standards and regulations how can we negotiate “great” trade deals?

Vote Leave over simplified the issues and as such a simple in or out vote could never be left to the general public who could never understand all the complexities, as even I don’t!

As it is their 50 anniversary I suggest everyone watch the Monty Python sketch “What have the Romans ever done for us” but just replace Romans with EU, and you will start to see how absurd Brexit really is.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

IronGiant

Moderator
Where were you in 2016 when we needed this advice?

Bit late now...

:devil:
 

Squiffy

Distinguished Member
However, regulatory alignment may required we have to change our own regulations to align with another countries regulations as part of a free trade deal. You can be sure, since the UK is small, the other countries (e.g. USA) will trump ours.
Nope. We will only need to meet the requirements for goods we sell to other markets.

We can have whatever domestic standards suit us.
 

xmb

Active Member
Nope. We will only need to meet the requirements for goods we sell to other markets.

We can have whatever domestic standards suit us.
Wrong. Free trade deals often require regulatory alignment, just as our current deal with the EU. A free trade deal with the USA may include some regulatory and standards alignment. Freedom is often just an illusion and Brexit is just one great big illusion, which many have fallen for hock, line and sinker.

No way will we be better off outside the EU but hardened Leavers can dream on until the house of cards collapses. Even then they will just blame someone else rather than offer up their jobs and money to those who have been damaged by leaving.
 

Bl4ckGryph0n

Distinguished Member
So, post Brexit a UK manufacturer would have to make products with different specifications and be certified to meet multiple countries regulations. This has a cost that can soon mean it is uneconomical to sell into that market. This is typical for high tech and medical products. Therefore, prices increase for both imports and exports, both resulting in economic harm to the UK.

Too many try to simplify the complex regulatory world we now live in and make incorrect assumptions about how easy trading actually is.

Those who want to leave with no-deal are either uninformed or stand to make money out of deregulation. Normal workers will be shafted without any doubt.
However, regulatory alignment may required we have to change our own regulations to align with another countries regulations as part of a free trade deal. You can be sure, since the UK is small, the other countries (e.g. USA) will trump ours.

At the moment we don’t need or have large government departments who manage all these regulations, as they are handled centrally by the EU. Post Brexit we will need to provide our own departments to cover this function, which will cost a lot of money and chances are we don’t have enough people who even know about this.

I know, as I work in standards (both BSI and IEC) and the numbers involved have been diminishing over the last 10-years. Without people who know about standards and regulations how can we negotiate “great” trade deals?

Vote Leave over simplified the issues and as such a simple in or out vote could never be left to the general public who could never understand all the complexities, as even I don’t!

As it is their 50 anniversary I suggest everyone watch the Monty Python sketch “What have the Romans ever done for us” but just replace Romans with EU, and you will start to see how absurd Brexit really is.
As you 'work' in standards, why do you think the UK would just start inventing their own standards opposed to continue to participate in international standards?

I'm on an ISO committee through the BSI to help define and influence standards. 52 countries are active on that standard. It originated in Australia.

I'm sorry but in my opinion this is a big fat red herring. I like them raw with onions and mayonnaise but not as a project fear unfounded scaremongering exercise.
 

Squiffy

Distinguished Member
Wrong. Free trade deals often require regulatory alignment, just as our current deal with the EU. A free trade deal with the USA may include some regulatory and standards alignment. Freedom is often just an illusion and Brexit is just one great big illusion, which many have fallen for hock, line and sinker.
Does the EU deal with Canada require regulatory alignment?

In fact outside of the EU single market, do any of their trade deals require regulatory alignment?

No way will we be better off outside the EU but hardened Leavers can dream on until the house of cards collapses. Even then they will just blame someone else rather than offer up their jobs and money to those who have been damaged by leaving.
Is leaving the EU just about money?
 

Willem55

Standard Member
UK has a great chance to lead by example and to prove to the world you don't need a common market. Do a hard brexit....
Europe needs it, just to remind its people of its value.
 

Willem55

Standard Member
As for regulations in tradedeals they exist to garantee a level playing field otherwise you'll get tarifed it creates equality by rules or tarif.
Very popular in the USA these days.
 

Ruperts slippers

Distinguished Member
The problem is, talk of deals is irrelevant.
Again I repeat, the government ballot paper asked.
Yes
No
Parliament is in breach its constitutional duty to obey will of the people not thwart the will of the people.
To quote and amend Cromwell “You have sat too long for any good you have been doing lately...Depart, I say; and let us have done with you. In the name of God, LEAVE!”


3 YRS parliament has attempted to derail the process, now how on earth is that in the best interests of business.
 

Russ_64

Well-known Member
My 2p is: Politically we must leave + Economically we should remain in Single Market/Customs Union = Current mess.

The UK is not some third rate country trying to get into the EU club, we are a major founding member therefore it is totally unacceptable that the EU are trying to shaft us. We must leave but should/could have reached a full free trade agreement in the 3 years since the referendum. We cannot leave until they give us one.
 

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