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what are the rules for non essential businesses?

Dancook

Distinguished Member
what are the rules for non essential businesses?

People are allowed to travel to work if they cannot work from home.

what’s the difference between travelling to an office and travelling to an outdoor location?

what if I’m a professional landscape photographer?
 

noiseboy72

Distinguished Member
I think your journey would class as non-essential travel. Even though the risks of spreading infection through travel are tiny, what if you had an accident - or even needed to stop for fuel?

I guess you would need to prove that your photography was essential. Tricky one that!
 

Dancook

Distinguished Member
I think your journey would class as non-essential travel. Even though the risks of spreading infection through travel are tiny, what if you had an accident - or even needed to stop for fuel?

I guess you would need to prove that your photography was essential. Tricky one that!
But if I got a job in an office, for which I have been applying - how would I get there? I'd need fuel.

If i'm travelling to work, to earn money - is that all non-essential?

If that's non-essential, what about paying my bills? :D are they non-essential too?
 
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Miss Mandy

Moderator
A lot of office work can be done from home because it's computer, internet and phone based. Getting as many people to work from home as possible is about reducing the risks and slowing the spread. Offices can be difficult to maintain social distancing and they often used shared facilities so the virus could spread quickly through them. It protects the staff from illness, but also the company who might be at risk of they lose a large bulk of staff at once.

I don't think there would be any issues at all with a landscape photographer working outside and travelling to work. They're likely to be on their own and away from people so the virus risk is low. It would also be one less person needing help from the government if the photographer can get some income coming in again.
We need to start getting the self-employed and tradesmen working again in my opinion. People need to start earning again soon so that they can spend and pay bills.
 

noiseboy72

Distinguished Member
You shouldn't travel to an office for non-essential purposes either.

We run warehouses for medical and food distribution - so most certainly essential. All non-operational staff including payroll and HR who would normally be in the office work from home. Other staff work shifts without overlap and have strict rules while they work.

The idea behind the stay at home orders is to minimise social contact. Therefore any journeys that don't have to be made need to be avoided.

I guess at the end of the day you have to balance the risks. Do you risk losing your home because you have no income or risk passing the virus on to vulnerable people in your immediate community?
 

Dancook

Distinguished Member
I had it in my mind there were people still travelling to non-essential work, where working from home was not possible.

If that's not the case then maybe shifting my focus to professional landscape photography could not be argued.

How limiting..
 

Mevlock

Member
I had it in my mind there were people still travelling to non-essential work, where working from home was not possible.

If that's not the case then maybe shifting my focus to professional landscape photography could not be argued.

How limiting..
They are.

In fact that's what the government says you should be doing.

If you have to travel to get to work and you can't work from home then you can do so.

It's a very soft lockdown.
 

tigermad

Distinguished Member
I had it in my mind there were people still travelling to non-essential work, where working from home was not possible.

If that's not the case then maybe shifting my focus to professional landscape photography could not be argued.

How limiting..
As long as it’s not on the government list to close and you can’t work from home, anyone of those can still go into work. It’s not essential workers only it’s work that’s you find essential like if you would lose your home etc.

Lots of businesses were closed to protect the workers but they are now reopening after realising this lockdown will last a very long time. That’s why the roads are nearly back to normal traffic wise.
 

Dancook

Distinguished Member
The only businesses that were closed are listed on the Gov website. All others can can still work. No problem with travelling for work.

Thanks,

So if non-essential businesses (not on the exclusion list) can remain open and employees can travel to work if they cannot work from home.

Then I really do not see any problem with professional landscape photography
 

Dancook

Distinguished Member
Lots of businesses were closed to protect the workers but they are now reopening after realising this lockdown will last a very long time. That’s why the roads are nearly back to normal traffic wise.
Now that I think about it, Loxley Colour are re-opening their non-essential printing company, they will of course need people to go into work.
 

Lee

Moderator
Thanks,

So if non-essential businesses (not on the exclusion list) can remain open and employees can travel to work if they cannot work from home.

Then I really do not see any problem with professional landscape photography
No problem at all. I've seen window cleaners and gardeners still going about their business. As long as social distancing is observed then all's good.
Now that I think about it, Loxley Colour are re-opening their non-essential printing company, they will of course need people to go into work.
Companies like that opening would explain why the paper delivery company a mate works at is slowly reopening.

The government got caught out a bit with the furlough scheme due to more businesses closing than what they thought.
 

Dancook

Distinguished Member
I've emailed my local MP looking for assurance.

Thank you for your previous correspondence,

As I can no longer photograph weddings or for schools, and I cannot claim universal credit or the self-employed grant and have absolutely no income, I've decided to branch out into professional landscape photography.

Now the first question that comes to mind, is that even allowed?

I'm 99% certain it is, though I still find myself e-mailing you for assurance.

Non-customer facing, non-essential businesses are still running and those that did close are beginning re-open again. The Government guidelines say "travelling for work purposes, but only where you cannot work from home." is OK.

I think the 1% comes from people mistaking the activity for leisure. Can I feel confident that I can go about my business without police intervention?
 

noiseboy72

Distinguished Member
If this is the way you need to earn a living, then you really don't have a choice. Working on your own in the country must be safer than an office. Just observe the rules and maybe don't travel the length of the country if you can help it.
 

doug56hl

Distinguished Member
I've emailed my local MP looking for assurance.
You are going from a booked gig for which you have guranteed payment to a speculative one which has no guarantee of making any income. And unless you live in a scenic area how far are you proposing to travel for these landscapes?

Unless you have a contract with say the National Geographer etc for these photos you propose to take, what difference is there in you travelling to photograph landscapes and any other member of the public travelling to somewhere nice and also taking photographs?

Let us know how you get on as I fancy a trip or two to some quiet and empty parts of Scotland to take landscape photos....

BTW I'm not having a go just pointing out a very obvious flaw with your cunning plan.
 
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Dancook

Distinguished Member
You are going from a booked gig for which you have guranteed payment to a speculative one which has no guarantee of making any income. And unless you live in a scenic area how far are you proposing to travel for these landscapes?

Unless you have a contract with say the National Geographer etc for these photos you propose to take, what difference is there in you travelling to photograph landscapes and any other member of the public travelling to somewhere nice and also taking photographs?

Let us know how you get on as I fancy a trip or two to some quiet and empty parts of Scotland to take landscape photos....
it's self-investment, not standing still and looking for ways to expand my business regardless of whether it makes any money right now. It doesn't always have to be about a liveable income, I hear plenty of businesses can take a years to make a profit.

I'd like to retire on landscape photography, this will be getting a head start on that.
 

Dancook

Distinguished Member
BTW I'm not having a go just pointing out a very obvious flaw with your cunning plan.
I don't even do much landscape photography for fun :D getting up in the early hours of the morning is going to be a chore...

But it's more worthwhile investment of my time than working in a supermarket.
 

doug56hl

Distinguished Member
it's self-investment, not standing still and looking for ways to expand my business regardless of whether it makes any money right now. It doesn't always have to be about a liveable income, I hear plenty of businesses can take a years to make a profit.

I'd like to retire on landscape photography, this will be getting a head start on that.
You didn't answer the how far to travel question.
There is nothing stopping you doing landscape photography if you take a camera out during your allowed daily exercise period.
I don't even do much landscape photography for fun :D getting up in the early hours of the morning is going to be a chore...
If you had you would have a large portfolio available in your photo piggy bank you could be drawing on now...

Other times of the day are also available.

I'm still struggling to see the difference between what you propose to do and any other member of the public wishing to use that same 'excuse' to be able to travel.
 

Matt_C

Distinguished Member
Even though the risks of spreading infection through travel are tiny, what if you had an accident
I think this is a point many overlook. Whilst the burden on the NHS might be easing a bit now (see recent news about people needing reminding to visit them for non-CV related issues), a contributing factor to helping the NHS was reducing the chances of needing ambulances and/or A&E visitation due to accidents, such as RTAs. Of course, then everyone did DIY and injured themselves at home...

If i'm travelling to work, to earn money - is that all non-essential?

If that's non-essential, what about paying my bills? :D are they non-essential too?
According to our government, yes
 

Dancook

Distinguished Member
You didn't answer the how far to travel question.
There is nothing stopping you doing landscape photography if you take a camera out during your allowed daily exercise period.
I don't know how far, I don't know where I'd go - I mean i'd like to go to Scotland for a couple of weeks to really get stuck in - but that will probably seem excessive right :)

I did a bit the other night on our walk, just some hand hold shots.

93853509_10163706792510227_5803866144049725440_o.jpg 93881717_10163710159595227_6254437646811004928_o.jpg

If you had you would have a large portfolio available in your photo piggy bank you could be drawing on now...
Can I go do street photography professionally?


I'm still struggling to see the difference between what you propose to do and any other member of the public wishing to use that same 'excuse' to be able to travel.
Intent and motivation?

I am a self-employed photographer who wants to expand my creative skills and business earning opportunities.
 

doug56hl

Distinguished Member
I don't know how far, I don't know where I'd go - I mean i'd like to go to Scotland for a couple of weeks to really get stuck in - but that will probably seem excessive right :)

I did a bit the other night on our walk, just some hand hold shots.

Can I go do street photography professionally?

Intent and motivation?

I am a self-employed photographer who wants to expand my creative skills and business earning opportunities.
But do you have sales in the landscape photography area?
When you are stopped by the police what is your get out of jail free card?

Again what is the difference between you and anybody else who due to having lost their job wants to get into being a self employed photographer doing landscape photos....

As you are managing to take landscape photos on your daily walk and urban/street photos what need do you have to be allowed to travel distances to do this?

When the advice is to work from home why is having to travel to take photographs better than taking photographs at home? Macro for instance is a niche area some manage to sucessfully exploit.
 
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Dancook

Distinguished Member
But do you have sales in the landscape photography area?
When you are stopped by the police what is your get out of jail free card?

Again what is the difference between you and anybody else who due to having lost their job wants to get into being a self employed photographer doing landscape photos....

As you are managing to take landscape photos on your daily walk and urban/street photos what need do you have to be allowed to travel distances to do this?
I haven't got any landscape photography for sale currently, I need better stuff.. it's a creative process that I need to invest more time into. I also setup ETSY only recently and stopped adding to it when the printer company shut, but they will reopen soon.

My get out of jail free card is confirmation from a Government worker that it is ok - I wouldn't go ahead with this idea until I get 'official' feedback.

No difference if others want to be self-employed doing landscape photos, I thought you were comparing it to people going for a jolly to just get out of the house.

I can do a bit of nature stuff on my walks, but no urban really would need a train into London for what I want to do, sadly! Maybe I'd like to do photo-journalism, but I have no history of it and not outlet for images, no press pass.

You see I don't understand why I have to be limit myself to the jobs offered by companies.. just because it's outside? I wonder how many non-essential jobs have people working outside.
 
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doug56hl

Distinguished Member
My get out of jail free card is confirmation from a Government worker that it is ok - I wouldn't go ahead with this idea until I get 'official' feedback.

No difference if others want to be self-employed doing landscape photos, I thought you were comparing it to people going for a jolly to just get out of the house.
Well this is the crucial point isn't it. Government worker is going to be thinking what if people want to exploit this as a cast iron excuse to go where they wish, when they wish.

"Dear government worker I wish to become a self employed landscape photographer specialising in taking photos of beaches. This will require me to have free access to beaches for as long as I wish any day, to lie down on the sand and expose my skin to also top up on the vitally needed vitamin D.

As I will be out for so long I will need to be able to have a BBQ to cook a meal while I am working. Also I may need to stay overnight so will need to be able to park my campervan or put up a tent so I can take early morning photos of the beach"

Every instagram or facebook user could claim they are now doing self employed landscape photography if challenged on this by the police...
 

Dancook

Distinguished Member
Well this is the crucial point isn't it. Government worker is going to be thinking what if people want to exploit this as a cast iron excuse to go where they wish, when they wish.

"Dear government worker I wish to become a self employed landscape photographer specialising in taking photos of beaches. This will require me to have free acess to beaches for as long as I wish any day, to lie down on the sand and expose my skin to also top up on the vitally needed vitamin D.

As I will be out for so long I will need to be able to have a BBQ to cook a meal while I am working"

Every instagram or facebook user could claim they are now doing self employed landscape photography if challenged on this by the police...
If they were found to be doing it when they have been furloughed

Go straight to jail.


It would be a shame for people to abuse something like this, maybe I will go photograph the crisis unfolding in hospitals - and they can all join me doing that instead.
 

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