Wharfedale D300 3D - add to X2600H for Atmos?

jimdriver2

Active Member
So I've just upgraded a bunch of my home cinema kit (with a lot of advice from people on here) and I've ended up with a Denon X2600H with Wharfedale Diamond 220's and and 11.CS attached, plus a couple of older rear surrounds that I'm happy with.

The amp of course can do Atmos and 7.1 so I was wondering if getting a pair of Wharfedale D300 3D's to put on top of my 220's would be worth it? They're about £120 online and that kind of speaker is really the only way I can add height speakers, can't really be messing with the ceiling.

So my question is basically: is that a worthwhile upgrade to do - will they fit with the other kit I've got and will what they add make it worth it?
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Providing your ceiling is perfectly flat and made of a reflective material and is between 8 and 14 feet high then front upward firing speakers should work for you. You would have to configure the Denon for 5.1.2 and tell it you are using 'Front Dolby' in speaker assign. Run Audyssey and afterwards set the crossovers of those speakers to 150hz and lift the levels by 2dB.
 

jimdriver2

Active Member
Providing your ceiling is perfectly flat and made of a reflective material and is between 8 and 14 feet high then front upward firing speakers should work for you. You would have to configure the Denon for 5.1.2 and tell it you are using 'Front Dolby' in speaker assign. Run Audyssey and afterwards set the crossovers of those speakers to 150hz and lift the levels by 2dB.
Great thanks. I ordered a pair and they're coming today.

Out of interest if Audyssey gives a different crossover should I change it? Also are you saying I should raise the level by 2db of whatever Audyssey gives?
 

Goooner

Distinguished Member
I redid mine last night, following @gibbsy advice, I’ve got the Denon 3500 and a couple of Eltac upfirers, hopefully soon to be replaced by a couple of ceiling speakers.

Audyssey gave me a crossover for the upfirers of 150hz anyway, but upped the dB on them by 2.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Great thanks. I ordered a pair and they're coming today.

Out of interest if Audyssey gives a different crossover should I change it? Also are you saying I should raise the level by 2db of whatever Audyssey gives?
When you run Audyssey it will give the crossovers for all speakers. The ideal for the fronts would be 80hz with all speakers in the system set to small. If Audyssey sets those crossovers lower than 80hz then you can set to 80hz manually. If those crossovers are set higher than 80hz by Audyssey then do not lower them. For the front three in that case you should set the three to the highest reading.

With upfiring modules it's best to set the crossover to 150hz as this will help with the reflected sound and let the sub pick up any bass below that. If you have them fixed to the wall then stick with what Audyssey has found, but not lower than the fronts.
 

jimdriver2

Active Member
When you run Audyssey it will give the crossovers for all speakers. The ideal for the fronts would be 80hz with all speakers in the system set to small. If Audyssey sets those crossovers lower than 80hz then you can set to 80hz manually. If those crossovers are set higher than 80hz by Audyssey then do not lower them. For the front three in that case you should set the three to the highest reading.

With upfiring modules it's best to set the crossover to 150hz as this will help with the reflected sound and let the sub pick up any bass below that. If you have them fixed to the wall then stick with what Audyssey has found, but not lower than the fronts.
Ok thanks for the recommendations, much appreciated, I'll see what Audyssey gives and then adjust as you've directed.

I'm not particularly well informed about the details of home cinema audio speaker setups. Can I ask why I'd set all the speakers to small? Audyssey identified the Diamond 220's as large. Also whilst it identified the Diamond 11.CS as small I was surprised by that because a previous AVR thought it was large and it certainly seems like that to me!

What difference does the speaker size make to the AVR setup please?
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Ok thanks for the recommendations, much appreciated, I'll see what Audyssey gives and then adjust as you've directed.

I'm not particularly well informed about the details of home cinema audio speaker setups. Can I ask why I'd set all the speakers to small? Audyssey identified the Diamond 220's as large. Also whilst it identified the Diamond 11.CS as small I was surprised by that because a previous AVR thought it was large and it certainly seems like that to me!

What difference does the speaker size make to the AVR setup please?
Well worth reading the opening of this thread as it will explain everything.
 

jimdriver2

Active Member
Well worth reading the opening of this thread as it will explain everything.
That's great, thanks for directing me there.
 

lostinspace

Well-known Member
@jimdriver2 - what do you think of the speakers? Have they improved your setup?

I'm looking for some upfiring Atmos speakers and these look OK but there is only one user review that I can find.
 

jimdriver2

Active Member
@jimdriver2 - what do you think of the speakers? Have they improved your setup?

I'm looking for some upfiring Atmos speakers and these look OK but there is only one user review that I can find.
Yep there's not much out there in terms of reviews! To be honest I just bought them because I didn't want to waste two speaker ports on my new X2600H.

Also unfortunately at this point I can't give loads of advice as I've discovered actually getting Atmos into the receiver is a lot harder than I expected. It seems the streaming services really limit which devices they'll offer it on. On my Fire Stick 4K, which is capable of passing Atmos to a receiver only Prime offers it. None of the other apps do! As such the only thing I've been able to test Atmos on was Jack Ryan, which we'd already watched all of. So my big suggestion is make sure you've got a way to get a Atmos signal on the services you want it before you buy the speakers.

That all said what I've watched of Jack Ryan with Atmos on with these speakers was pretty good. The sound certainly felt like it was more 3D. Again because I've only watch a few minutes I can't really comment, it's probably something that is more effective and sort of 'noticeable' by watching the entirety of something. I can't say I was really blown away with sounds feeling like they were really above. There was some sense of that but it wasn't as effective as hearing things from your side/behind from surround speakers. My guess is that proper in-ceiling Atmos speakers would be much more effective at that. I'd also note that whilst my AVR does try to simulate Atmos when it just gets a 5.1 signal (you can hear some audio coming from the height speakers) it's not particularly noticeable but then it's also not distracting in any way so it's clearly doing something right as its adding more audio.

In the end I just decided it just added another reason for getting a LG C9 as the apps for it will give me Atmos...

So basically: yes it's improved my setup, not by a massive amount (yet!) and you need to ensure you can take advantage of them (can give your AVR an Atmos signal) - but they're not that expensive so worth it if your AVR supports Atmos and you're otherwise wasting the ports.
 

rccarguy

Active Member
They seem quite good value, however limited frequency range and not the most efficient.

There's the Dali speakers but fair but more expensive, but they have toggle switch. Do the Wharfedales?
 

Djuganight

Active Member
I must say that the Wharfedale D300 3D do look really nice. Sadly there isn't much information about them and don't seem to find any reviews.
Would be very interested in buying 2 sets of those (4 speakers)....
 

rccarguy

Active Member
I must say that the Wharfedale D300 3D do look really nice. Sadly there isn't much information about them and don't seem to find any reviews.
Would be very interested in buying 2 sets of those (4 speakers)....
Not bad price either. £115 pair. Only thing is not very wide frequency response not 80hz also not the most efficient.

Also for my use may need a sharper angle, Dali look sharper. Will need to work out what angle (9' ceiling, speaker about 6" from ceiling height due to coving, wall from listening position 10'8')
 

Djuganight

Active Member
The majority of upfiring atmos speakers have frequency starting from 100hz.
The Dali do look very good but they only have that frequency because they are not atmos certified. Also, their sensitivity is only 83db, which seems rather low, meaning the avr will have to work harder when driving 7 or 9 speakers at same time.
 

rccarguy

Active Member
If I bought the d300 or Dali I'd be wall mounting them not upfiring.
 

Djuganight

Active Member
Personally don't have the option to wall mount or ceiling install due to my wife. Otherwise would be on- ceiling speakers no doubt.
 

rccarguy

Active Member
Personally don't have the option to wall mount or ceiling install due to my wife. Otherwise would be on- ceiling speakers no doubt.
Simple.
Tell her you're divorcing her as you want to wall mount speakers.
 

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