Wedding soon need camcorder Hi Def ?

Discussion in 'Camcorders, Action Cams & Video Making Forum' started by a_friend, May 4, 2007.

  1. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2003
    Messages:
    6,512
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Bath, England
    Ratings:
    +620
    I haven't had any dropouts...
    as Senu says they can only happen with tape, so whilst they are rare an advantage of a HDD cam is dropouts don't happen at all...

    Now I also need a light and a lens filter protector for it any idea's.

    For lens filter get a good quality one which is multi-coated. A cheap/poor filter can impact the quality.
    I use one of these on my HC1
    https://www.harrisoncameras.co.uk/shop/product.asp?prodid=592
    The SR1 has a 30mm thread; I'm not sure if anyone stocks this particular filter in 30mm in the UK. The 30mm version is here
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/234966-REG/B_W_66025981_30_mm_UV_Multi_Coated.html

    As for light - There are limited lights which fit on the accessory shoe and are low power, like this
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-HVL-S3D-Intelligent-Video-Accessory/dp/B00005K4L5

    But you can use a bracket attached to the tripod mount on the camcorder to use a light with a standard shoe; that opens up lots of choices.
    Example bracket here
    http://www.keene.co.uk/electronics/multi.php?mycode=AS2

    I have this Sony light
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-HVL-20DW2-Battery-Operated-Halogen/dp/B00005K4LJ

    You can buy similar non-Sony ones for less, e.g.
    http://www.keene.co.uk/electronics/multi.php?mycode=HVL20

    I bought the Sony one as previously I had a Jessops own brand one and it was rubbish, it would heat up and cut out. But I'm sure there are some which combine decent quality with less than Sony price.

    There are also LED based lights.
     
  2. a_friend

    a_friend
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2005
    Messages:
    863
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Ilford
    Ratings:
    +20
    Thanks guys this has been a real eye opener. From what I can tell even though AVCHD is new it still in its infancy to rival HDV.

    A much as I like the looks of the Sony SR1 I've changed my mind and will get the Canon HV20.

    My reasons are HDV is far more mature format then AVCHD
    HDV looks better then AVCHD currently
    HDV tapes are more reliable source to archive
    Editing software is freely avaliable

    I will how ever only record to HDV tape once and then archive.

    Can you recommend some tapes then?
     
  3. Indy @ S.E.

    Indy @ S.E.
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2005
    Messages:
    1,104
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings:
    +106
    Hi,

    Would I be right in thinking that I can buy a HD camcorder (either HDV or AVCHD), record my upcoming holiday in glorious high def, send it to my laptop as standard non-HD video for editing and archive the HD master to edit in the future when I can produce full HD productions?

    Cheers,
    Indy
     
  4. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2003
    Messages:
    6,512
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Bath, England
    Ratings:
    +620
    Sony "Premium" DV tapes work well and are cheap. Amazon is a good source; just make sure to buy direct from amazon and spend over £15 to get free shipping. (Amazon also sells through some resellers but their shipping charges make the prices not so good).

    If you want to really play it safe for your wedding footage you could use the Sony HDV tapes, a good source for those is
    http://www.aprmedia.com/product.php?pid=2588
    (APR has the Sony Premiums too, but they tend to be cheaper at Amazon).
     
  5. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2003
    Messages:
    6,512
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Bath, England
    Ratings:
    +620
    Would I be right in thinking that I can buy a HD camcorder (either HDV or AVCHD), record my upcoming holiday in glorious high def, send it to my laptop as standard non-HD video for editing and archive the HD master to edit in the future when I can produce full HD productions?

    You can do exactly that with HDV.

    WIth AVCHD, you can't shoot HD and "send it to my laptop as standard non-HD". You can either shoot SD and edit SD, or shoot HD and edit HD. You can of course shoot HD, edit HD, and create SD in software. As far as I know only HDV cams support in-camera downconversion.
     
  6. senu

    senu
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2005
    Messages:
    19,349
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Denham, South Bucks
    Ratings:
    +2,811
    With HDV.. yes Im not so sure with AVCHD

    With HDV you can either record as SD anyway, or record as HDV but get the camera to downconvert to SD "on the fly" and output via fire wire to a PC

    With HDV you can capture to a PC and edit as HDV then output back to tape as HDV, or output the project to SD for the purposes of making a Standard DVD

    I Imagine you can output captured and edited AVCHD footage to SD but Im not so sure you can downconvert to SD in camera as SD mpeg2 (They are HDD/DVD devices)
    Of course you can record SD (mpeg2) with an AVCHD camcorder


    PS: Another "Mark beat me to it" post:devil: !!
     
  7. Indy @ S.E.

    Indy @ S.E.
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2005
    Messages:
    1,104
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings:
    +106
    Thanks very much guys, exactly what I was looking to hear.
     
  8. RLT

    RLT
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2005
    Messages:
    351
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +15
    I'm concidering the Canon HV20 for a forth coming wedding, but also to replace my current DV camcorder.
    However I'm not to sure how 'flexable' the progressive (25p) recording is.
    Will there be a problem playing back or copying material recorded in 25p
    or indeed editing
    Can 25p material be sent to a non HD TV ok ?
    I do have a JVC HD1 PJ that will except 1080i/p @ 60hz / 50hz / 24hz but dont no if it will except 25p !
    Could the HV20 output 25p recorded material at say 1080i or p at 60hz or 50hz ?

    please educate
    RLT
     
  9. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2003
    Messages:
    6,512
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Bath, England
    Ratings:
    +620
    Will there be a problem playing back or copying material recorded in 25p
    or indeed editing


    No problem copying it to a PC. And you'll be able to edit. The only question is will your editor recognise the progressive format? I know with Vegas (which I use) there are currently issues with it recognizing the 24p format in 60i, but that is more complex; 25p from 50i is simple, it's just like interlaced but the 2 frames are the same. But I think if the software doesn't deal with this correctly it will end up deinterlacing and you'll lose some of the benefit. But I'm pretty sure that if the editors don't handle it now they will in future.

    Can 25p material be sent to a non HD TV ok ?
    I do have a JVC HD1 PJ that will except 1080i/p @ 60hz / 50hz / 24hz but dont no if it will except 25p !


    I'm sure you'll be able to watch it. If you are playing from the camera it is 1080i 50hz anyway... you'll only get the progressive format when using software which can recognise it and pull it out.

    Could the HV20 output 25p recorded material at say 1080i or p at 60hz or 50hz ?

    The European HV20 shoots 1080i at 50Hz.... either normal interlaced, or 25p packaged within 50i stream. No 60Hz support.
     
  10. RLT

    RLT
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2005
    Messages:
    351
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +15
    [/I]

    Thanks for the education
    but just a little more please.........

    So playing back 25p recorded material, the camera out puts @ 1080i / 50hz and if the display can recognize that it has been recored as a progressive signal and has the appropriate software it will display 25p accordingly.
    If it doesn't it will take the 1080i/50hz signal and display that.
    Am I getting the 'signal' correctly myself here ?
    So if I record @ 25p, I can throw the signal at my display via HDMI and the display will decide what can except ?
    In what circumstances would it be beneficial NOT to use 25p
    At the moment camera will be mostly used indoors & for holidays.

    Thanks RLT
     
  11. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2003
    Messages:
    6,512
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Bath, England
    Ratings:
    +620
    Bt "software" I meant editing software.

    I'm not 100% sure (so others please correct me if I'm wrong) but I believe if you are playing the tape from the camcorder direct to the display, it will be treating it as interlaced (with both fields the same). I don't think a display can do the "pulldown".

    The progressive flow comes in when:

    - You shoot 25p
    - Edit with an editor
    - Then output to a progressive format on DVD etc.

    Given that the HV20 performs better in low light with 25p, I don't see a downside to shooting 25p, except maybe fast action, where the interlaced may look smoother.
     
  12. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2003
    Messages:
    6,512
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Bath, England
    Ratings:
    +620
    I've done a bit more research on this...

    The "pulldown" is needed with with 60i to go to 24p. Here with 50i, there is no pulldown needed, as 25 times 2 is 50. When playing from the camcorder it is technically interlaced, but both frames are the same. When editing, you simply need to tell the editor it is progressive.
     
  13. RLT

    RLT
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2005
    Messages:
    351
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +15
    Thanks for that.
    So I should have no problems sending 25p to my HD1 PJ, as it will except 1080i / 50hz or for editing / copying to DVD in the future !

    Another question, if you don't mind.......
    I noticed also that the HV20 can convert analogue to DV but there is no SVHS connectors on the HV20 for my SVHS tapes, only composite.Would I really notice any loss transfering SVHS tapes to DV using the composite connection ?
     
  14. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2003
    Messages:
    6,512
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Bath, England
    Ratings:
    +620
    Would I really notice any loss transfering SVHS tapes to DV using the composite connection ?

    Yes, quite possibly. If using composite rather than S-video then it is basically copying VHS quality rather than SVHS.
     
  15. RLT

    RLT
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2005
    Messages:
    351
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +15
    Do you know of any hardware that would allow me to copy SVHS to DV,or will I have to go the PC digital card route ?

    Thanks for your assistance so far...
     
  16. senu

    senu
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2005
    Messages:
    19,349
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Denham, South Bucks
    Ratings:
    +2,811
    Most external breakout boxes which take an s-video input should. However the better ones are costlier and the cheaper one may take an s-video input and convert it to mpeg2 rather than DV AVI
    Though now rare as a hens tooth, A DV camcorder with S-video in can similarly do it "on the fly" as pass through to PC directly or to DV tape

    The AVDC range are some of the better quality hardware solutions

    The Pinnacle Moviebox solutions are another solution but being tied to the Pinnacle software may or may not be an advantage
    Thre may be others but these reafily coe to mind

    These lower cost ones here may be worth considering

    I have the pro breakout box for Avid Liquid which ( in addition to the software ) is excellent but a tad costly. I also have a older but perfectly Usable Pinnacle Studio Moviebox
     

Share This Page

Loading...