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"Weak" front speakers?

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by Mango Bob, Nov 24, 2004.

  1. Mango Bob

    Mango Bob
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    First of all thanks to the many people who've posted good advice over the years, I'm now a happy owner of a Yamaha 750 amp, MS 906 fronts, 905 centre and 903 rears :clap:

    When I started connecting it all up the 906s sounded gorgeous in stereo before plugging everything else in. Now it's all connected they don't sound as strong in the mid of bass ranges (even in pure direct mode).

    Is this something to do with loading the amp more with the other speakers or have I just adjusted to the speakers? Has anyone else noticed this?

    I biwired the fronts last night using the A+B posts on the amp and this seemed to improve the sound a little - but may just have fixed dodgy connections!
     
  2. Mango Bob

    Mango Bob
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    Pleeeeeaaaase can anyone help with this, it's driving me nuts! The mid and bass drivers just aren't being driven properly at all :(

    They sounded great in stereo at the weekend and now the 906s just aren't being driven properly. As far as I can tell the only thing that changed was hooking up the rest of the speakers - how has this made the 906s sound weedy?

    It's noticeable in movies also, music and gunshots just don't have the punch they're supposed to unless the sub covers it and the frequencies above the sub are just not there :rolleyes:

    I've tried it with all the available sub crossovers from 40Hz up to 200Hz and with the bass going to fronts only, sub only and both. Nothing makes a difference to driving the 906s properly. Yet this weekend before I connected the full 5.1 setup they sounded perfect :eek:
     
  3. scussy

    scussy
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    i have been looking at the YAM 750SE to buy,when looking at the online manual in the sound section (page 26) there is an IMPEDANCE SELECTOR,(at the back on bottom right hand corner,try switching the switch to the left side,(when the power is OFF)
    it says if the switch is to the right and you use both A+B speakers must be 16ohms or higher,when to the left it says for A+B 8 ohms or higher,

    hope this helps

    steve
     
  4. Ian J

    Ian J
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    I've never heard of this problem before and wonder whether you should unplug all of your speakers except the front pair and see whether they will sound as good as they once did before, this time round.

    I am guessing that it must be a positioning or setup problem somewhere within the bass management of the amp. You don't mention a subwoofer so if you haven't got one, make sure that the amp is set to subwoofer - no, in case it is trying to send the bass notes to a non existent subwoofer
     
  5. dongagon

    dongagon
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    Could it be possible that the speaker sizes are incorrect in the amps setup.
    IIRC Yamaha amps allow you to send bass to front and sub even if the fronts are set to small.

    What have you set your fronts to Large/Small?
     
  6. owain_thomas

    owain_thomas
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    have you used the auto setup on the amp, maybe this has set things a bit wrong?
     
  7. Sniper

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    ... and do make sure that no speaker has been wired out of phase !
     
  8. Mango Bob

    Mango Bob
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    Hmm, that makes me think I'm imagining things if no-one else has heard this!
    I also have an MS309, I just forgot to mention it - that's part of the problem as I feel it's handling LFE very well but the fronts aren't coping with the freq above the crossover point. It's possible I've just not balanced it up correctly - this is my first set of AV gear.

    Scussy, I've tried the impedance selector in both settings and it doesn't make a lot of difference (although I assume it stops the amp blowing up at high volume!) I'm not driving two sets of speakers, just a biwired pair so I think the load is the same?

    Dongagon - the sizes are correct, fronts are large, centre is large, rears are small, lfe is set to both (sub and fronts) and the crossover I've moved allover the shop.

    I'll try disconnecting everything over the weekend apart from the fronts and see if there's an audible difference.

    IanJ, does the frequency response (probably not the right term!) change as you turn up the volume? I noticed last night the 906s sound more balanced when louder. If I've got the volume down low is there just not enough power to drive the woofers?
     
  9. Mango Bob

    Mango Bob
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    Sniper, the speakers are all in phase, checked with THX optimiser.

    Owain, on your advice they're currently wired with solid core T&E - would the sound improve with different cable? I'll try it this weekend anyway. The auto settings seem reaonable although I've no SPL to check. The distances were all correct and I've played with the volume levels it chose in manual mode.
     
  10. Ian J

    Ian J
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    I think that perhaps you could do with begging, borrowing or stealing an SPL meter to make sure that the levels are all correct as they may well be out of balance. If possible I would try the centre speaker as small too.
     
  11. aliflack

    aliflack
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    if you've got the fronts set to large, then shouldn't the sub be set to LFE only?

    I would be tempted to try setting the fronts to small and see if that makes any difference.

    Echoing what Ian said, try disconnecting the other speakers and see what happens - if the problem goes away, that suggets your amp may be at fault. If it doesn't, probably just that the settings on the amp have gone a bit haywire!

    Any way of hooking the fronts up to another setup? Stereo amp etc?
     
  12. Mango Bob

    Mango Bob
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    I've tried all speakers set to large and small - which changed the depth of sound a little but doesn't seem to make much difference. I preferred the front and centre on large as they're a bit more open.

    (Edit - just re-read your post aliflack) I didn't know setting LFE to both would have an effect like this. I think I've had LFE to sub only with large fronts but will recheck tonight.

    It's frustrating because my reason for buying this lot rather than Genies was to get a bigger bass/midrange that i felt you just didn't get with sub/sats.

    Sadly no stereo amp to test - this is my first set of real hifi gear :thumbsup:

    I've tried varying every amp setting I can find but nothing quite seems to power the midrange. The tone settings on the amp can sort of correct for it but I didn't think I'd have to rely on this. They sounded great in pure direct stereo initially.
     
  13. Sniper

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    so...

    had a look at the spec for all your speakers - basically what I was looking at was freq range!

    Fronts: 45hz upwards
    Center: 60hz up
    Rears: 120hz up
    Sub: 35-200hz

    With that spec and that AMP I would (this is just my opinion!) - set all speakers to SMALL & set the crossover to 120 (rears dictate this!) & make sure LFE is not set to "LFE only" (and set the sub's crossover to the max setting). That way you won't be 'stessing' the spkrs with freqs they can't handle and let the sub do it's business - also make sure levels are set correctly.

    It would be nice to have xover setting for each channel but this is only available on some amps (rotel i think!)
     
  14. Mango Bob

    Mango Bob
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    There's a "level" setting you can only access from the front of the amp. Somehow the auto-setup decided to set the LFE 5dB lower than all the other channels. I manually compensated by turning the sub volume up a bit - hence no bass from fronts.

    Problem mostly solved I think. The speakers are still too bright in pure direct stereo, but I think this is just the new speakers and will wear off.

    Thanks for the help everyone!

    :clap: :clap: :clap:

    p.s. For anyone with a RXV version, don't worry as these settings are your tuner buttons. On the DSP version they're the secret "mess up your sound" buttons!
     

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