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WC 2010 General Chit Chat

cabanatuan

Banned
I think it's a foul.

There's no ball, they are both doing their best to pretend they can't really see each other when in fact they both know they are going to come into contact, i.e. there's intent.

The elbow was raised and both players are looking to make sure the ref can't see it all happening.

Why did Kaka keep his shoulder towards the other player? He could have turned towards him or stepped back.

Should be either a yellow for both players or much more reasonably a stern word for the both of them. Still a foul though as there's intent.

I agree the contact is beyond fairly tame, it's more of a push than anything else, but when you try to play the margins like that sometimes thing don't go your way. He should have kept his arm down / stepped away or turned towards the other player.

None of this excuses the play acting (which elevated a simple foul to a yellow) which is disgraceful, unsporting and quite frankly embarrising to The Ivory Coast and himself.

p.s. and I'm none of 1-5 above I'm just saying what I can see
Well said, the guy raised his elbow and clenched his fist in the process. You have got to be a blind fool to not see that clearly in the replay.

whether it was a light elbow or not doesnt matter. he elbow the guy and thats a no no in football.

Yes the player overacted but again, it was a blatent elbow.

O and i actually love brazil. There one of my favourite teams in the competition
 

lee_d_m

Active Member
So what would you do if someone was running to you from the side, lift your arms high in the air so they'd crash into your ribs ?

It's obvious to most that Kaka was holding his arm out to protect himself as the IVC player was running in. He's clenching his fist because that is what you do when bracing yourself for an impact.

As others have said, the IVC player was clearly trying to get Kaka sent off after he just received a yellow card, it's as simple as that.
 

stevenM

Suspended
So what would you do if someone was running to you from the side, lift your arms high in the air so they'd crash into your ribs ?

It's obvious to most that Kaka was holding his arm out to protect himself as the IVC player was running in. He's clenching his fist because that is what you do when bracing yourself for an impact.

As others have said, the IVC player was clearly trying to get Kaka sent off after he just received a yellow card, it's as simple as that.
i agree
 

cabanatuan

Banned
So what would you do if someone was running to you from the side, lift your arms high in the air so they'd crash into your ribs ?

It's obvious to most that Kaka was holding his arm out to protect himself as the IVC player was running in. He's clenching his fist because that is what you do when bracing yourself for an impact.

As others have said, the IVC player was clearly trying to get Kaka sent off after he just received a yellow card, it's as simple as that.
its not as simple as that. kaka diddnt have to elbow the guy. worse case is that the IVC player would have clattered him and kaka could then return the favour and role on the floor and get the other guy sent off. Its not as if kaka would have been injured from a little clash with the IVC player.

protecting himself? yea right. kaka got what he deserved. a yellow card. i suppose of someone pushed him he should then retaliate by punching the guy in face for "protection".

lol come on the word "being the bigger man" springs to mind. Its fine to protect yourself if someone tried to do a two footed tackle on you or if someone tries to punch u but a little shoulder barge? lmao sorry but you dont need to protect yourself for such a minor colision.:suicide:

Only immature kids retaliate in such a minor thing especially with millions of people watching you.
 
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FruitBat

Well-known Member
So what would you do if someone was running to you from the side, lift your arms high in the air so they'd crash into your ribs ?

It's obvious to most that Kaka was holding his arm out to protect himself as the IVC player was running in. He's clenching his fist because that is what you do when bracing yourself for an impact.

As others have said, the IVC player was clearly trying to get Kaka sent off after he just received a yellow card, it's as simple as that.

I agree as well.

I can't work out what Keita was doing. He seemed to be making a bee-line for Kaka, but not looking where he was going. Was it all planned or was he just being opportunist, taking advantage of the collision to feign injury?

However, it is slightly ironic that a Brazilian should be caught out like this, since it seemed (to me) that throughout the match it was the Brazilian players who were guilty of overacting. The only time I recall a Brazilian going down and not rolling about excessively was Elano and he was clearly genuinely injured.
 

lee_d_m

Active Member
its not as simple as that. kaka diddnt have to elbow the guy. worse case is that the IVC player would have clattered him and kaka could then return the favour and role on the floor and get the other guy sent off. Its not as if kaka would have been injured from a little clash with the IVC player.

protecting himself? yea right. kaka got what he deserved. a yellow card. i suppose of someone pushed him he should then retaliate by punching the guy in face for "protection".

lol come on the word "being the bigger man" springs to mind. Its fine to protect yourself if someone tried to do a two footed tackle on you or if someone tries to punch u but a little shoulder barge? lmao sorry but you dont need to protect yourself for such a minor colision.:suicide:
You're pretty much the only one on here seeing it like this. Kaka did not elbow the guy, he ran into Kaka, if you've ever played football, you'd know that the movement's made by Kaka are exactly what any other player would do.

It's not even like Kaka is a dirty player, if it was Vinnie Jones, I might understand where you're coming from

Maybe there should be a "specsavers" emoticon on here.
 

clc.sheff

Well-known Member
So what would you do if someone was running to you from the side, lift your arms high in the air so they'd crash into your ribs ?

It's obvious to most that Kaka was holding his arm out to protect himself as the IVC player was running in. He's clenching his fist because that is what you do when bracing yourself for an impact.

As others have said, the IVC player was clearly trying to get Kaka sent off after he just received a yellow card, it's as simple as that.
I'd totally agree with you if it happened quickly or more accurately if Kaka didn't see him until the last minute but they both knew what was going on from 8-10 foot apart and in my view it turned into an ego thing.

There's no excuse for the other guy running into him in the first place, there's no ball. However Kaka left his shoulder / arm there knowingly.

I don't think it's fair but in football it's well known that any reaction is not allowed however small or justified.

Kaka just stood his ground which should be fair enough but in my view he saw it coming from a good way off and had an opportunity to either move or keep his elbow down.

He could have turned towards the other guy and raised both hands in a more defensive gesture well before he was hit but he waited until the last moment and also tried to apply some return force (Although minimal).

That's how I see it anyway, Thing is the ref didn't see any of it so the yellow is still well out of order on that basis.

If there was an appeal process I still can't see the yellow getting rescinded though as I don't think it could be proven Kaka was completely blameless.

You're meant to walk away from anything like that not stand your ground.
 

cabanatuan

Banned
You're pretty much the only one on here seeing it like this. Kaka did not elbow the guy, he ran into Kaka, if you've ever played football, you'd know that the movement's made by Kaka are exactly what any other player would do.

It's not even like Kaka is a dirty player, if it was Vinnie Jones, I might understand where you're coming from

Maybe there should be a "specsavers" emoticon on here.
im not the only one. go read the previous thread. i even quoted a guy who agrees with me in this very same thread.

yea i agree, you need to book yourself over in specsavers to get your eyes checked :smashin:

Kaka clearly moves his elbow towards the IVC player.
 

lee_d_m

Active Member
im not the only one. go read the previous thread. i even quoted a guy who agrees with me in this very same thread.

yea i agree, you need to book yourself over in specsavers to get your eyes checked :smashin:

Kaka clearly moves his elbow towards the IVC player.
One whole other person, that must make you right then. :lease:
 

stevenM

Suspended
have you ever played football before Johnny, no way was it a yellow card. Thank god your not a ref in the world cup
 

cabanatuan

Banned
One whole other person, that must make you right then. :lease:
But you said i was the ONLY one that agrees with the sending off :suicide:

have you ever played football before Johnny, no way was it a yellow card. Thank god your not a ref in the world cup
Have you? i play football almost every week and follow football as a whole throughout a season. are you one of those guys who only watches football when its a world cup? if so that could explain why you think its ok to retaliate and not get a bookable offense for it:suicide:

Put your reading glasses on and watch this again:



Still dont see his arm/elbow move towards the player?
 

stevenM

Suspended
Lol i give up. i watch football every week mate and used to play football until i broke my leg. Words can't describe how wrong you are mate
 

lee_d_m

Active Member
But you said i was the ONLY one that agrees with the sending off :suicide:





Still dont see his arm/elbow move towards the player?
I actually said "pretty much the only one" which implies there may be the odd one or two more than you. You obviously missed that as well.

No-one is debating that Kaka didn't move his arm towards the player, but it was for protection not for any sort of retaliation.

However, as you've now said that you play sunday League football, I can quite understand why you have your opinion, because at that level, when a player moves their arm towards a player it is generally with the intent of maiming him.
 

cabanatuan

Banned
if its a shoulder to shoulder contact then thats fine but as soon as you move your arm towards a player your asking for trouble.

you dont need to protect yourself with your elbow/arm and like the other guy said, he most likely knew the player was near him and could have easily avoided contact with him.

Anyways the ref apparently diddnt even see the incident yet gave him a yellow so the ref is wrong to do that BUT if he had seen it, it is a bookable offense imo.
 

clc.sheff

Well-known Member
I am going to get myself down to specsavers because to be honest the more I watch the clip the worse it gets not better :rotfl:

My 14 month old son barges into me harder than that and I don't feel the need to raise my elbow to protect myself (and he's usually armed with something)


Off to work now chaps, enjoy the debate :)
 

Coffin

Distinguished Member
It's not even a foul, let alone a yellow card and subsequent sending off.

How dire football has become. Yet again, the offender (read cheat) is the one who seems to have gotten off scott free and the innocent party is the one punished.

If I was Kaka, or any footballer for that matter, and saw in the corner of my eye a massive African footballer running towards me at pace supposedly not seeing where he's going; I'd have done exactly the same thing.
 

Ruperts slippers

Distinguished Member
if its a shoulder to shoulder contact then thats fine but as soon as you move your arm towards a player your asking for trouble.

you dont need to protect yourself with your elbow/arm and like the other guy said, he most likely knew the player was near him and could have easily avoided contact with him.

Anyways the ref apparently diddnt even see the incident yet gave him a yellow so the ref is wrong to do that BUT if he had seen it, it is a bookable offense imo.
Actually your wrong its not a bookable offence ,but Simulating actions intended to deceive the referee, is..And the ref didn't see any bodily contact and why did the player move himself to collide with kaka..
The refs do have discretion when it comes to applying law 12 but it seems in my book that the ref made a major mistake in sending the wrong player off..
 

Citizen J

Novice Member
I don't know if anyone saw the England news conference with Lampard. He spoke very well as always but I was particularly impressed with the way in which he handled quite difficult questions.

Was very good to see and I felt he answered them honestly as well.
 

jassco

Distinguished Member
You're meant to walk away from anything like that not stand your ground.
erm, correct me if I'm wrong, but he is walking away when the player ran towards him :confused:

What's he supposed to do, turn and run away from the player down the length of the field? You'd just get 22 people chasing each other about the pitch avoiding contact and ignoring the football (as keita was doing), and it'd turn into a competition to see who could get the game abandoned due to red cards the quickest. :rolleyes:

Or instead, a player can stand his ground, after all he was there first, and if someone runs into the player standing his ground, it's a foul.

Oh and with regards to moving his arm towards him. Yes, that's what happens when someone is running at a standing target. They must apply equal pressure in the opposite direction. As Kaka was actually moving away, he had to use something to apply that pressure.
 

ste v p

Novice Member
its not as simple as that. kaka diddnt have to elbow the guy. worse case is that the IVC player would have clattered him and kaka could then return the favour and role on the floor and get the other guy sent off. Its not as if kaka would have been injured from a little clash with the IVC player.

protecting himself? yea right. kaka got what he deserved. a yellow card. i suppose of someone pushed him he should then retaliate by punching the guy in face for "protection".

lol come on the word "being the bigger man" springs to mind. Its fine to protect yourself if someone tried to do a two footed tackle on you or if someone tries to punch u but a little shoulder barge? lmao sorry but you dont need to protect yourself for such a minor colision.:suicide:

Only immature kids retaliate in such a minor thing especially with millions of people watching you.
I couldn't disagree with you more. If you're playing football and somebody runs into you you tense up to brace for the contact. I've been hit when not expecting it and it hurts a hell of a lot more than if you're prepared. Kaka did nothing wrong, the Ivory Coast player ran into him and then went down like Rivaldo holding his face in a blatant (and successful) attempt to get Kaka sent off. Quite frankly disgaceful behaviour that is all too common on a football field these days.

If somebody ran into me like that I wouldn't move out of his way - he is running towards me, not the other way around. I would most certainly stand my ground and then look in bemusement as he writhed in "agony" :rolleyes: on the floor.
 
I think the big grin on his face when he walked off after the incident said it all.

But what about Pavlos, can't believe the chap has been banned from watching further games and is in court for trespassing. How about they go after the security people not doing their job. Seems a bit heavy handed towards a fan who wasn't challenged on his way into the dressing rooms.
 

mcmi

Novice Member
Never a booking, but then again their second goal should never have stood either.

Not one but two hand balls, and to top it off the ref laughing and joking with Fabiano when he was asking him if he had handled it, comical refereeing.
 

Dr Evilest

Active Member
you dont need to protect yourself with your elbow/arm and like the other guy said, he most likely knew the player was near him and could have easily avoided contact with him.
Actually you do, that's what your arms for. If he hadn't raised his arm slightly, they would probably have clashed heads. It's a natural reaction to someone running towards you. Try it!

Go on, admit you're wrong, I dare you.;)
 

Dazza Cole

Active Member
I wonder what this will mean for his World Cup though? Let's face it, Kaka has been nowhere near his best and the brazilians I have watched both games with wanted him taken off in both games. Now if his replacement comes in and has a storming game against Portugal, what does Dunga do?
 

DrWise

Banned
who will play in place of kaka, probably bring in Nilmar :)
 

vader100

Well-known Member
As the standard of football has risen in the tournament the ref standards have dropped. The Kaka sending off was an atrocious decision as as was the allowing of the second goal with two handballs.

Some of the sending offs in the second round of matches have been terrible.
 

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