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Washed out colours?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by dinoprada2003, Dec 28, 2004.

  1. dinoprada2003

    dinoprada2003
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    Iv'e only just compared watching DVD's on my TV against on my PJ a Plus-UP800 via a 7 metre rgb-vga lead connected to my HCPC.And to my horror iv'e noticed the PJ's colours seem washed out,As well as that the blacks seem well a little gray!? im using Power DVD 4 and have spent about 2 hours attempting to make adjustments to contrast/brightness etc etc but to little or no avail? :( Now I have rarely used my PJ untill lately so theres only a usage of 121 hours on the 1000 hour bulb!?
    Is this normal for an old DLP projector like this? is there maybe something im missing? and or some thing that I can do to improve the picture?

    Any advice or help very much welcome :D
     
  2. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    Projected images can look washed out compared to a crt, but if you reduce your image size down, the colours will become more saturated and begin to match the tv.

    I don't know your pj model, but if it's more a presentation pj than a home theater pj, then it may have a white segment which boosts brightness at the expense of colour fidelity. To get the contrast and brightness (white and black levels) set correctly, you'll need something like Avia or Video essentials to help you do this properly.

    Gary.
     
  3. dinoprada2003

    dinoprada2003
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    Thank's Gary, Iv'e got DVE but it wasent much help, :( BTW do I make adjustments to the colour via the PJ's own colour internal settings or the desktops/or my software dvd player? it's only projecting at 5ft so it's not *too big* Your right though it's more a data PJ than a home cinema one, I bought it second hand a couple of years ago.
     
  4. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    I'm not too familiar with DVE, but there are some patterns with 3 bars for black and white, and you have to make just two of them visible I think. I use Avia which I find easy to use. Have a look through DVE and see what it says about the bars and PLUGE patterns.

    You may have to adjust the colour on one or the other, but if you leave the software players overlay at defaults, that would be a good start. I forgot to mention that any lamp driven projector will have a hard time 'projecting' black as it can never truly stop light escaping from the lens, so it will never be as black as a crt. Do you watch in a dark room or is there some ambient light about?

    Did DVE come with some blue glasses? You can set saturation with them using a test pattern, and then the colour saturation should be correct. Can you disable the white segment in the colour wheel? Some pjs allow you to do that. A tweak that was done by the brave was to open up the pj and physically mask the clear segment of the colour wheel by using a silver pen that would block the light but wouldn't come off or fade under the heat. There are other internal mods that can be done but they're for the enthusastic tweaker really.

    If it's a very bright image and you want the blacks to appear darker, a filter can help - a simple ND filter (neutral density) will darken the image and improve black level (ND2 will reduce the lumens by half). After the initial dimming down, you might find you prefer the image. Being less bright will initialy appear to be a bad thing visualy, but once you've become accostomed to it, you might find you prefer the darker blacks. Unfortunately filters aren't always cheap, so you'll have to be sure of what you want before buying anything otherwise it could be a waste.

    I've just looked at the specs for this model at projectorcentral:

    http://www.projectorcentral.com/PLUS-UP-800.htm

    This model only has an advertised 400:1 contrast ratio and 600 lumens, so it's never going to match your tvs image which has considerably more contrast, and better blacks too. I would think that using a filter may not be a good idea as it's not a very bright pj compared to start with, and the image will dim over time as the lamp ages, probably to 400 lumens.

    An FL-Day filter may help boost the red as lamps tend to be red deficient so the image can look blue/green so perhaps that's another reason why it looks washed out. Again though, it may dim it down too much. If you can try a filter before buying, that would be ideal.

    Gary.
     
  5. dinoprada2003

    dinoprada2003
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    RE:I do think the image has a somewhat green hue to it.What filter would you recomend? how much are they roughly and do you know where I could buy one from?

    Many thank's Gary :thumbsup:
     
  6. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    An FL-Day filter seems to be a good choice, though sometimes a CC20R or CC30R work well with some LCD projectors (depending on how much colour correction is needed - red absorbs green and blue). What size thread is on your lens? If you're not sure, sometimes using some tape to fix the filter to the lens works OK.

    You can get filters from any camera shop - Leefilters or Jessops for example.

    http://www.jessops.com/search/viewp...=&SHOWCASEID=&STARTROW=1&SUBS=&WORD_SEARCH=Y&

    Hoya tend to be more expensive, and the Cokin ones can be square for sliding into a holder which screws to the lens. You can just tape it so that it hangs squarely over the lens if you want a cheap solution or just to see what the effect is like.

    Gary.
     
  7. dinoprada2003

    dinoprada2003
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    The Fl-Day filter was the one you linked too am I correct? the other filter models didnt appear on the jessops site with a search? When you say what size thread is my lens do you mean how big is my PJ lens? if so I measure it as 55mm diagonal on the lens itself not the plastic around it, My dad's a portrait phtographer so iv'e just begged him to fish out all his old lenses so I can have a play :thumbsup: although I will still buy the one you link to above to try out.
     
  8. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    If you want a filter that screws onto the lens, then you need to know the thread size. 55mm is a common thread I think, so you shouldn't have a problem finding one.

    I found a couple of old 52 and 55mm camera filters in my old camera bag, so like you, I'll be having a play with them to see what works. I found an 81a straw colour) which seems to reduce green and blue, so that might be worth a try as well. Try your Dads filters before buying as you might find one that is better suited.

    The CCR20 etc should be in the Jessops site, but I didn't do a search for them all. I found the FL-day just to give you an idea of what to look for.

    Have fun, and let me know what results you get.

    Gary.
     
  9. dinoprada2003

    dinoprada2003
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    Ok, thanks and will do Gary :thumbsup:
     
  10. dinoprada2003

    dinoprada2003
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    Had a play with loads of lenses last night but got little or no results :( My dad didnt have a FL-Lens but he did have a normal day-light lens which helped a *little* I am going to order the FL from the Jessops site and suck it and see so to speak :D BTW I manged to tweak power dvd a bit and by add'ing more blue I got better blacks,
     
  11. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    The real trick is to balance the colours again after adding the filter, since it won't always be a perfect match. To see if you have a colour push you need a test disk like Avia that will produce grey bars going from black to white. Usualy it's 11 bars at increments of 10. They should all look grey, but at different intensities. If there's a colour tint, then the RGBs are not balanced. Without something like that as a guide, it's very tricky to do.

    I've just noticed you asked a couple of questions that were inside my quote box, so I missed them. Normaly you adjust the individual RGB values from within the pj - but you must note down all the original values before changing anything, so you have something to go back to if it all goes wrong. There are normaly two sets - RGB brightness adjustments for doing the darker parts of the image, and RGB contrasts for the brighter end. It's also very tricky to do without a proper measuring device, but if you have a good eye for grey, you may have some luck.

    I've used an FL-Day on my NEC pj, and it did a very good job. I had to tweak the colours a bit so that white appeard white and not pink, but I much prefer the image it gives over the one without.

    Gary.
     
  12. dinoprada2003

    dinoprada2003
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    Hello Gary,

    Ok mate thanks for the heads up, Im going to get a FL-Day from jessops and see if I can improve on the picture.I have DVE but it might be worth getting avia then do you think? To be honest I think I need a new PJ as you said the plus is a *data* PJ and with the price of PJ's droping I was thinking of picking up something like the Epson TW10H when funds allow :D would a budget PJ like that improve vastly on picture quality for dvd play back do you think?

    All the best

    Dino.
     
  13. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    DVE is OK I think (it's designed for PAL, Avia is for NTSC which has a different black level), so should have some grey bars or similar to help you see any colour tints.

    Any pj designed for home theater will have a superior scaler/deinterlacer and colour balance when compared to a data projector, so you should see quite a difference. The filter can still be useful so don't throw it away. :)

    Most new pjs have quite high contrast ratios and reasonably good black levels, so you should be pleased with whatever pj you decide on. Wanna buy my NEC HT1000? :)

    Gary.
     
  14. dinoprada2003

    dinoprada2003
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    Most new pjs have quite high contrast ratios and reasonably good black levels, so you should be pleased with whatever pj you decide on. Wanna buy my NEC HT1000? :)

    [/QUOTE]
    Love to mate but im sure it's WAY out of my budget at the moment! :confused:
     
  15. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    Depends what your budget is. Probably not the best time of year for splashing out though..

    Gary.
     
  16. dinoprada2003

    dinoprada2003
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    Hi gary,

    See my thread about swapping a sony reciver my Plus projector plus cash for a decent PJ and let me know what you think? :)

    Edit 19.15pm
    Just saw price of your PJ new and it's wellllllllll out of my price range :confused: sorry mate, good luck with the sale :)
     
  17. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    No problem. :)

    Hope you get a quick sale and can start looking for something better - the Infocus X1 and 4805 are very good value - I've seen the X1 when it was new, and I thought it was great value then - it was about £1300. It's about £600 now (new) so even better value. Try to get a demo though just to make sure though, and have a look at what else is available in your price range.

    Good luck!

    Gary.
     
  18. dinoprada2003

    dinoprada2003
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    Will do and thanks gary :thumbsup:
     

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